 
Eric_c
Member
Username: Eric_c
Post Number: 1148
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 11:33 am: |    |
I, for one, would gladly visit Carl's more often, if only for the tasty relish tray, but I can't count on the quality. The last three times I went, the salad lettuce was wilted and the soup was cold. Service has been ticky-tacky for at least ten years now, too.
Once, bad night. Twice, bad luck. Thrice, bad operation. The place has definitely gone down hill and I only know to blame the owner.
I swear to God, if the place could just be revamped! Carl's needs a new lease on life, that's for sure. |
Urbanpioneer
Member
Username: Urbanpioneer
Post Number: 32
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 11:42 am: | |
I also remember going to Lelli's which was very much like Carl's and Mario's. but that burned down and they moved outside the city. Isn't part of the equation that population, expense accounts and style of business have changed to create less of a demand? That said, MAYBE an high-end strip club serving up steaks would work or maybe not. |
56packman
Member
Username: 56packman
Post Number: 2014
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 11:54 am: | |
Eric_c--right, JT1--wrong
People move in and out of regions every day. And they die. The challenge in any business is to put out a quality product, get the world to recognize that you put out this quality product, then (the hardest part) maintain that quality over time.
Carl's stopped being the Carl's of old a long time ago. The current owners have done an OK job of keeping it alive, but just OK isn't enough. One of the last times my wife and I ate there one of the managers reprimanded a waitress (who was not the matronly old gals from the old days-- who were absolute professionals) within earshot of our table--right out on the floor. The food was OK, but what made Carl's was an owner like Carl Rosenfeld, who ran a tight operation with great, consistent food.
The restaurant business is tough--even Chicago's Berghoff closed in the last year.
Quality
Consistency
service
Value for the $$$
The rest is easy.
(Message edited by 56packman on January 23, 2008)
(Message edited by 56packman on January 23, 2008) |
Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13
Post Number: 3632
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 11:57 am: | |
"I also remember going to Lelli's which was very much like Carl's and Mario's. but that burned down and they moved outside the city."
And the word is that the new Lelli's (in Auburn Hills) is very good. |
Jrvass
Member
Username: Jrvass
Post Number: 409
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 12:18 pm: | |
I miss Joe Muer's.
I remember as a child being taught how to read a menu there by my grandfather... "Look at the right hand column and when you get to $1.95 or less, look to the left and order that!"
 |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11232
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 12:20 pm: | |
Pack - You missed my point. I agree that the responsibility lies with the business owners but if someone leaves a dying region it negates their right to call it a shame that a business is lacking customers.
Carls is responsible for their business adapting.
Miss Glick has no right to cry. |
Andylinn
Member
Username: Andylinn
Post Number: 689
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 12:24 pm: | |
hey! blaming me for not going because i'm a vegetarian is kind of silly! why would I go to a steak house!? at least slow's has TVP sandwiches... I go there... if carl's made a vegetarian dish, i'd go in a second... I've always wanted to go, but it's far too "meatastic..." for a man like myself... |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11233
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 12:26 pm: | |
quote:but that burned down
Some say burned down. Some say torched by interested parties. |
Mrjoshua
Member
Username: Mrjoshua
Post Number: 1536
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 12:56 pm: | |
The owner is my friend's neighbor in Grosse Pointe. He went there a while back for the first time with his family and was shocked that the steak was nearly as good as what he was accustomed to being served at Ruth's Chris, for half the price. He also stated that Carl's has a unique ambiance and now plans on frequenting the place. From what I've read on this thread it does seem like it needs to be remodeled or perhaps even relocated, but many people do not seem to grasp how important it is for places like this to continue to thrive - chains become boring. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11234
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 1:02 pm: | |
Couldn't agree more with you MrJ. |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 392
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 1:03 pm: | |
"Once, bad night. Twice, bad luck. Thrice, bad operation."
You give a bad place a third chance? Two times should be tops unless there's some other reason to be going there that has nothing to do with the food. |
Jimaz
Member
Username: Jimaz
Post Number: 4354
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 1:05 pm: | |
quote:"I lost $1 million last year," said Passalacqua,... Wow. $80k+ per month?! Can that be correct? |
Sec106
Member
Username: Sec106
Post Number: 17
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 1:05 pm: | |
Love Carl's, please no stripper poles!
Was just there last weekend and it was fantastic as always. Best steak around, took a neighbor who had never been there and he was knocked out by the steak and the whole experience. |
Eric_c
Member
Username: Eric_c
Post Number: 1149
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 1:09 pm: | |
"You give a bad place a third chance? Two times should be tops unless there's some other reason to be going there that has nothing to do with the food."
I gave it three chances, because the previous one hundred or so visits over the last twenty years were always excellent.
Like I said, the place has slipped quite a bit over the last ten. |
Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2706
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 1:16 pm: | |
quote:Love Carl's, please no stripper poles!
Don't worry. The strippers will be Oompa Loompas, too. They don't need stripper poles. |
Kenp
Member
Username: Kenp
Post Number: 997
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 1:36 pm: | |
I wonder if they will keep the mint jelly |
Matt_the_deuce
Member
Username: Matt_the_deuce
Post Number: 783
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 1:44 pm: | |
"I wonder if they will keep the mint jelly"
I think it's not a matter of "if" but rather "where" |
Korridorkid
Member
Username: Korridorkid
Post Number: 97
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 1:54 pm: | |
As much as I enjoy Carl's for it's quirky nostalgia/"me-decade"/double-b reasted suit-a-gallon-of gin-martini look, it's not what sells anymore.
The American palette has removed itself from the cold-war concept of heaping portions of everything, drowned in butter, and char-grilled in "fine-dining" establishments.
Carl's is the last of a dying breed in a city that has some fine examples of more current trends in gastronomic adventure, a la Atlas, Cuisine, DaEduardo's, Coach Insignia, Seldom Blues, The Caucus Club, The Whitney(maybe stretching it), The Rooster Tail, The Rattlesnake Club and so on.
"Hell, I can get a better atmosphere, be trendier, and get a better steak at <insert>". And i'm sure that's the mindset of many people when confronted with the choice.
If Carls' got a new Chef and remodeled as "A Great American Steak (not chop!) House" i'm sure they could re-inspire some traditional clientel and encourage new patronage.
It's lamentable--but dinosaurs go extinct unless they evolve. |
Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek
Post Number: 2707
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 2:52 pm: | |
Okay - it doesn't look like anyone is getting my sarcasm. (Oompa Loompas are fictional characters that require you to check your disbelief at the door, just like the notion of Carl's becoming a strip club.)
Carl's may or may not close, but I really, REALLY doubt that it will become a strip club. There is a moratorium on new strip clubs in Detroit. No matter what the market is like for an old-school chop house like Carl's, the City isn't going to allow them to set up as a strip club. |
Mrjoshua
Member
Username: Mrjoshua
Post Number: 1537
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 2:53 pm: | |
These reviews are all over the place, some quite funny:
http://detroit.citysearch.com/ review/5218950 |
Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 6008
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 3:04 pm: | |
Here's The Rock with Windex on the mirrors, and Brasso on the pole, and he can't remember the name of the Woodward-Six Strip Club. Fat chance.
He knows which freeway exits, best time to go, the menu, and knows the name of all the bouncers.
He may forget to wear socks with the dress shoes, but he sure knows that club. jjaba was there and saw a brassplate "Rock Table" down front.
jjaba, LOL. |
Dialh4hipster
Member
Username: Dialh4hipster
Post Number: 2244
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 3:16 pm: | |
I have friends who can afford to eat there and would gladly go more often if he didn't insist on making that place uglier every time we go there.
You cannot escape the televisions in there, they added those stupid poker tables, and they continue to remove the old-school stuff that makes going there worthwhile. The place just looks trashy now.
Buff up the old-time charm and I know several people who would go more often, myself included.
I like feeling like I'm in Detroit, but I don't like feeling like I'm in a classless, ignorant dive bar when I'm paying those kind of prices. I don't care how good the food is. |
Club_boss
Member
Username: Club_boss
Post Number: 283
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 3:46 pm: | |
I worked at a place that lost $5000.00 a week. I can’t imagine losing $20,000.00 a week for a year?
I agree with the comments that many others have left about how difficult it can be in the restaurant business.
The owner states on some weeknights the business does zero covers.
If he thinks getting a top-less permit from the MLCC (with local government approval) will save his business, he is sadly mistaken.
So he is going to convert this old, tired, property into a topless nightclub, why, so you can loose another million dollars?
I would think after losing 80K for 3 or 4 months I would have had enough and would have stopped the bleeding at that point.
I my opinion the man is going from the frying pan into the fire by getting into the adult bar business. If Mr. Passalacqua has lost 1 million dollars in one year I would suggest he hire someone to run his businesses for him.
The article also states he plans on changing the business name (thank God) but he will
continue to serve from the same menu and add a center stage for strippers-what a great idea!
The article doesn’t state Mr. Passalacqua’s age, anyone know? |
Zephyrprocess
Member
Username: Zephyrprocess
Post Number: 583
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 3:46 pm: | |
So which Freep editor was asleep at the wheel?
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20080123/BUS INESS06/80123021/&imw=Y
quote:Owner Frank Passalacqua has filed an application with the state for a topless permit, the Detroit News reported. He says sagging [sic] business convinced him to consider making the switch to adult entertainment. |
The_rock
Member
Username: The_rock
Post Number: 2091
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 4:01 pm: | |
jjaba, was it Menjo's? Something like that. I don't know.
All I remember was that you could never get a parking spot in front of the place because there was a DSR bus that said "Dexter Ave" and it took up 5 parking places.
And one particular patron who always wore a Cass Tech sweat shirt used to be quite rowdy 'til his favorite dance,Sharon Bloomberg, finally came out and did her thing. Then this guy's kippah would fall off within seconds of her performance.
But the name of the joint? Guess I will have to leave that up to some of the Forum historians. |
Jman
Member
Username: Jman
Post Number: 108
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 4:51 pm: | |
Edjo's |
Renfirst
Member
Username: Renfirst
Post Number: 172
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 5:26 pm: | |
Did a report in b-school a couple of years ago on the decline of steakhouses due to changing diets... I'm sure the ambience, or lack there-of doesn't help, but it seems like steakhouses aren't doing as well as they used to... red meat's falling victim to more health-conscious consumers...
Has there been any talk of relocation? Maybe a new location coupled with the name could bring some success... |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6194
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 5:43 pm: | |
The reviews that Mrjoshua mentioned are striking in that they mention Carl's as either great or horrible, with nothing in between.
That's very suspicious. Sounds like some family members/employees of Carl's have been adding their own reviews. |
Zephyrprocess
Member
Username: Zephyrprocess
Post Number: 584
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 6:00 pm: | |
So how much do you-all think it cost to apply for that license? It may have been the best marketing dollars they've spent in years. |
9936sussex
Member
Username: 9936sussex
Post Number: 79
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 6:30 pm: | |
Back in the 70's and 80's Carl's used to be on the circuit for luncheon/dinner spots when my husband and I worked downtown. For a while, the ambience was tolerable, kind of like the watering hole that is dumpy but still lovable. The last time I was there (early 80's) the women's restroom was the filthiest I had ever seen in a public place....and the cockroach that jumped out of the breadbasket wasn't so great either. The fact that our waiter wasn't surprised at the cockroach pretty much sealed the deal... |
Pffft
Member
Username: Pffft
Post Number: 1446
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 8:04 pm: | |
The early '80s was probably the rock bottom of downtown and its restaurants.
I was at Carl's for lunch in early fall, and I was admittedly apprehensive, I thought it would be empty and depressing...I have to say, the food was very good. Very surprising to me.
It was great to have old-fashioned service, bread basket and all, when we're used to chain restaurant ambience these days.
And no I'm not connected to Carl's. The lunch was good enough that I wanted to inquire who the chef could be ...oh, and it was clean. |
Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 6011
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 10:28 pm: | |
Top 10 reasons to eat at Carl's.
10. Close to Olympia for Elvis concert.
9. You can show off your new dress.
8. Near Cass Tech.
7. jjaba had his HS party there, 1959.
6. jjaba had marriage #1 party there.
5. Right on the Grand River bus line.
4. Straight shot to Brighton.
3. The relish tray.
2. 3 martini lunch before facing the rest of your miserable day.
1. Close to Greektown for dessert.
jjaba. |
Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 6013
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 10:45 pm: | |
Rock, tell us, have you ever eaten at Carl's without socks on with your tassled dress lawyer shoes?
What's The Rock's fav. menu item there?
jjaba, picking up his kipa. |
Leoqueen
Member
Username: Leoqueen
Post Number: 1770
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 11:33 pm: | |
Leoqueen, her actor husband, and the husband's Best Woman celebrated our wedding anniversary there every May 30th for 20 years; our wedding dinner was held there in 1987, and our last one was 2007. We vowed at that time not to go back, as the service was atrocious, the relish tray was gone, the atmosphere was really thin. We understood that the restaurant was doing whatever they could to hang on, in the shadow of Motor City, but enough was enough. |
Leoqueen
Member
Username: Leoqueen
Post Number: 1771
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2008 - 11:34 pm: | |
By the way, my husband had a Best Woman stand up with him at our wedding instead of a Best Man |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 955
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 12:24 am: | |
sex sells for more than steak. i guess.
There are zoning problems with this that could easily prevent this from happening. Detroit doesn't need any more young women going into prostitution. |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 956
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 12:26 am: | |
Andylinn, humans are omnivores, buck it up once in a while and go for it. |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 1097
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 2:16 am: | |
They can just change the name from Carl's Chophouse to Carl's Whorehouse. I hope it scares business away from the Ilitchville Ilitchville! casino. |
Viziondetroit
Member
Username: Viziondetroit
Post Number: 1388
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 2:21 am: | |
I think Carl's should be renamed Kwame's |
The_rock
Member
Username: The_rock
Post Number: 2092
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 7:16 am: | |
I only ate whitefish at Carl's. Never had a steak there in my life. But, no time to post now. Just got a call from the Mayor's office, and I am supposed to review some "text messages." Wonder what that's all about.
Bump. |
Jerrytimes
Member
Username: Jerrytimes
Post Number: 90
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 2:02 pm: | |
I visited Carls for the first time last summer, and even though the atmosphere could use some updating, I enjoyed it very much. The steask that my girlfriend and I got were amazing. I hope somehow the place bounces back. |
Iddude313
Member
Username: Iddude313
Post Number: 142
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, January 24, 2008 - 7:39 pm: | |
I just wish they would fix their dang sign! |
Melody
Member
Username: Melody
Post Number: 99
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 2:43 pm: | |
I just called Carl's Chophouse to find out when they're closing because I want to go there before it closes (never been - and I'm a '70s-phile who loves places that haven't been updated for decades!).
Me: Hi I heard you were closing soon and I wanted to know when so I could go there before you close.
Dude on phone: We're not closing.
So there. At least that means they're open and they want business. |
Diehard
Member
Username: Diehard
Post Number: 245
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 3:18 pm: | |
This whole thing smells like a publicity stunt.
Still, it reminds me I haven't been there in a few years. I thought it was really good last time. Time for another visit. |
Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 6017
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 3:41 pm: | |
Surf and turf with the relish tray and hot bread.
Does it get any better than that in 1950s Detroit?
2008, and you get valet parking.
jjaba. |
The_rock
Member
Username: The_rock
Post Number: 2097
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 4:33 pm: | |
Publicity stunt--very interesting, and worth thinking about. Seems to me I remember when Frank first purchased Carl's Chop House, he either had or came upon a huge lobster that was older than God and was going to boil it and serve it to the highest bidder or something like that. All kinds of folks got up in arms and demanded that the lobster be set free, but in the meantime they flocked to Carl's just to see this thing.
Seems to me it got set free somewhere, somehow, but in the meantime, Frank and Carl's got a fair share of ink. Not bad for a new opening.
Anyone else got a recollection of that? |
Rjk
Member
Username: Rjk
Post Number: 1016
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 10:41 pm: | |
^ Yeah, I can't remember which restaurant did it, but the lobster stunt sounds familiar.
I bet you that's been played out in almost every major city. You can't beat the free pub. |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 986
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Friday, January 25, 2008 - 10:59 pm: | |
Was that the one in New York or somewhere when Mary Tyler Moore protested? |
Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 6019
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, January 26, 2008 - 12:31 am: | |
2000 yr. old sturgeon bottom feed in deep water.
Yum.
jjaba. |
Sirrealone
Member
Username: Sirrealone
Post Number: 73
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 8:30 am: | |
Good excuse to show support...$50 gift cert. for $25:
http://restaurants.wnic.com/cc -common/ddindex2.php |
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