 
French777
Member
Username: French777
Post Number: 313
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 5:50 pm: |    |
I have to debate / convince this team that Wayne County is a better place to live over Oakland County...
What are some positives...
I thought some Detroit High Schools were on Nationally Ranked list of Top Schools
any suggestions? |
Taj920
Member
Username: Taj920
Post Number: 279
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 6:35 pm: | |
Less traffic, bigger lakes, more culture, more character, more affordable real estate. |
401don
Member
Username: 401don
Post Number: 220
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 6:35 pm: | |
French, I heard you were 15, which makes this grade 10? Hopefully, it's for debate club and not just a dumb waste of class time. |
Bearinabox
Member
Username: Bearinabox
Post Number: 498
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 6:37 pm: | |
Wayne has Detroit River/Lake St. Clair frontage, which in my mind is a notch above those crowded little lakes up in West Bloomfield and Commerce Township. And if you ever need to flee the country for any reason, Wayne County controls the escape routes.  |
Hans57
Member
Username: Hans57
Post Number: 259
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 6:37 pm: | |
What are those bigger lakes you're talking about Taj? Do you mean St. Clair? |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1415
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 7:03 pm: | |
Well, the cost of living is even lower in WC than OC.
I always thought the top ranked Detroit schools worked on a regional level for students?
Anyway, you're closer to the airport, the water, and Canada. |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 3335
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 7:32 pm: | |
ethnic diversity, history and cultural institutions, sports and entertainment options, world headquarters for major international companies like Ford & GM that give back to the community (e.g. Campus Martius), the only Ikea store in the area, control of most of the local water distribution system, better hospitals |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2553
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 7:48 pm: | |
Less snobby? |
Jasoncw
Member
Username: Jasoncw
Post Number: 478
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 9:11 pm: | |
Less snobby is a good one.
Urban living and the benefits to it (emotionally, economically, environmentally) are positive.
And while OC does have history, WC has more.
It depends on where in WC though. |
321brian
Member
Username: 321brian
Post Number: 534
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 9:47 pm: | |
pup,
Why is it that a an area with a minority as the majority of the population is always called "diverse".
Detroit lacks diversity more than the suburbs.
Overall, Wayne County is diverse but full of areas with all black ( Detroit, Inkster) or all white (Livonia, Canton) residents but I think the mix in better in the O.C. |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 3337
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 9:57 pm: | |
"Detroit lacks diversity more than the suburbs"
we're talking the county, not the City of Detroit, and not just black and white
and no, the mix is not better in OC |
321brian
Member
Username: 321brian
Post Number: 535
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 10:15 pm: | |
how do you know? where do you live?
i said the county (wayne) was more diverse on paper but in reality it is pockets of light and dark.
i think oakland county is more representative of the population of the country.
no denying there are some very white areas but they are small compared to detroit.
don't sleep on southfield. |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 3338
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 10:24 pm: | |
I have lived in Oakland, Wayne, and Washtenaw counties. I have worked in Oakland, Wayne, and Washtenaw counties. |
321brian
Member
Username: 321brian
Post Number: 537
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 11:46 pm: | |
I guess you just don't pay attention to your surroundings then.
How many cities like Oak Park, Lathrup Village and Southfield does wayne county have? |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 3339
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 21, 2008 - 11:52 pm: | |
I do pay attention to my surroundings. The cities you list are cities in transition, just like the neighborhoods in Detroit went through transition. They have their counterparts in Wayne County. When I was young the cities you list were almost totally white. |
321brian
Member
Username: 321brian
Post Number: 538
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 12:16 am: | |
The point isn't what the cities used to be or what they will be. What are they now?
99% of Detroit is not diverse. Overall Oakland Country is more diverse. As in it has more cities with diverse populations than Wayne County.
That is all I'm saying. |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 3340
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 1:46 am: | |
We're not talking Detroit here, we're talking the entire county, and it's disingenuous to point to cities in transition as if they are stable, long-established, integrated areas. |
Hudkina
Member
Username: Hudkina
Post Number: 100
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 4:20 am: | |
99% of Detroit is not Diverse? Southwest Detroit is very diverse and it has a population of 100,000. That's over 10% of the city. Southwest Detroit is 24% white, 33% black, 39% hispanic, 3% multi-racial and 1% of some other race. If the Asian population was higher it would be almost the "ideal" example of diversity.
Wayne County also has:
Dearborn - The largest concentration of Arabs outside of the Middle East. Oakland County has nothing like what you would find on Warren Ave or Dix Avenue near Vernor Hwy.
Hamtramck - Easily one of the most diverse 2 sq. mi. areas in the entire United States. Dozens of different ethnic groups call this city home including Poles, Germans, Yugoslavians, Arabs, Bengladeshi, Italians, Irish, Ukrainians, Albanians, African Americans, etc. Hamtramck is about 60% White, 15% Black, 10% Asian, 12% multi-racial, 2% hispanic, and 1% of some other race.
There are only nine cities in the Tri-County area where no race makes up 70% or more of the total population. Four are in Oakland County, five are in Wayne County.
Inkster - 25% white / 67% black / 3% asian / 5% other
Pontiac - 35% white / 47% black / 13% hispanic / 5% other
Southfield - 38% white / 54% black / 3% asian / 5% other
Lathrup Village - 46% white / 50% black / 4% other
Oak Park - 46% white / 46% black / 8% other
Ecorse - 47% white / 40% black / 9% hispanic / 4% other
River Rouge - 50% white / 42% black / 5% hispanic / 3% other
Hamtramck - 60% white / 15% black / 10% asian / 15% other
Romulus - 64% white / 30% black / 6% other |
Taj920
Member
Username: Taj920
Post Number: 280
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 10:10 am: | |
Hans57:
Wayne County also includes Lake Erie. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2554
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 12:13 pm: | |
In what twilight zone is Oakland County more racially diverse than Wayne County?
Oakland County:
82.75% White
10.11% Black or African American
0.27% Native American
4.14% Asian American
0.02% Pacific Islander
0.84% from other races
1.86% from two or more races
2.43% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race.
87.4% spoke English, 2.0% Spanish, 1.3% Syriac and 1.0% Arabic as their first
Wayne County:
51.70% White
42.16% Black or African American
0.37% Native American
1.70% Asian
0.02% Pacific Islander
1.55% from other race
2.49% from two or more races
3.75% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race. 89.3% spoke English, 3.2% Spanish and 2.4% Arabic as their first language.
(Message edited by iheartthed on January 22, 2008)
(Message edited by iheartthed on January 22, 2008) |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 4728
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 12:18 pm: | |
What, exactly, is so great about "diversity"? Unless you are suggesting it somehow leads to some other benefits. But in that case, why not just list those benefits when comparing the counties? I don't understand how "diversity" by itself is a positive or negative factor in choosing a place to live. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2555
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 12:18 pm: | |
To be fair, Oakland County is about as white as Detroit is black, but (obviously) a greater percentage of white Hispanics...
82.70% African American
12.26% white
0.97% Asian
0.33% Native American
0.03% Pacific Islander
2.54% from other races
2.32% from two or more races.
4.96 percent of the population was Hispanic or Latino of any race.
Non-Hispanic whites accounted for 10.50% of Detroit's population. The city's foreign-born population stood at 4.8%. |
El_jimbo
Member
Username: El_jimbo
Post Number: 538
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 12:20 pm: | |
The commute to work is much easier. The time it takes to cover the distance between downriver and downtown is 2 or 3 times shorter than the time to cover the same distance coming from Oakland County. |
321brian
Member
Username: 321brian
Post Number: 539
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 12:21 pm: | |
Nice stats.
What they don't tell you is that over 90% of the blacks in Wayne County are in Detroit. The rest of the county is whiter than Oakland County. |
Higgs1634
Member
Username: Higgs1634
Post Number: 287
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 12:31 pm: | |
quote:In what twilight zone is Oakland County more racially diverse than Wayne County?
Uh, well, I believe the comment was more directed toward the level of integration and how one defines "diversity"? Seems the statements were challenging the assumption that the mere presence of minority automatically equals "diversity".
A city of 900k+ that is 80%+ black, isn't diverse.(in the same way a county that is 80%+ White isn't) When that 80% concentrated population makes up the vast majority of the 42% living in the County...well, there ya go. Diversity of residents across the county? Sure. Well integrated so that "diversity" actually matters? Not so much.
Not that OC is any better, but I don't see Wayne county as some sort of rainbow coalition paradise. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2556
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 12:32 pm: | |
quote:What they don't tell you is that over 90% of the blacks in Wayne County are in Detroit. The rest of the county is whiter than Oakland County.
True. Just like 60% of the black people in Oakland County live in Southfield and Pontiac. I'd guess the vast majority of the rest live in Royal Oak Twp and Oak Park... with a few in Farmington Hills and a couple in West Bloomfield. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2557
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 12:35 pm: | |
quote:Not that OC is any better, but I don't see Wayne county as some sort of rainbow coalition paradise.
I don't think my claim was that Wayne County was more or less integrated than Oakland County. But clearly Wayne County has a much more diverse population (that affects things like... oh, elections?) than Oakland County. Whether it is an integrated population is a different story, I agree. |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 3341
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 12:48 pm: | |
and diversity is about more than black and white
Pakistani, Indian, Albanian, Iranian, Arabic |
Fareastsider
Member
Username: Fareastsider
Post Number: 789
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 1:15 pm: | |
I hate to admit it but Oakland COunty is pretty nice. Large road system. Endless clean and upscale neighborhoods. Good services. Beautiful landscapes both urban and rural. Clean and large park system both county, state and Metro Parks. Good Schools in Oakland. World class shopping and businesses. A lot of people will hate it here because of the sprawl or urban design of most of Oaklands sprawl, but some people are WAY to pretentious over themselves because they can appreciate an appropriate street layout!
Wayne on the other hand does offer a great place to live but has a whole lot of blighted areas, crumbling infrastructure, lots of heavy industry. Brownfields, crime. There are areas of Wayne that are like Oakland but only parts of Wayne. Wayne though also has more options for people with normal incomes. Dearborn is an amazing city.
In my opinion if you hate the blight found in parts of Wayne or the snootyness of Oakland than you have to go for the ultimate middle ground of the Detroit area. MAcomb County not to rich, not to poor but just right! TO answer the question though I would say that Oakland is a better place to live than Wayne....but not for me personally. |
Hudkina
Member
Username: Hudkina
Post Number: 105
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 22, 2008 - 4:26 pm: | |
Wayne County has just as many good school districts as Oakland County. Grosse Ile, Grosse Pointe, Livonia, Northville, Plymouth-Canton, Riverview, and Trenton are all Top 15 school districts for MEAP scores in the Tri-County area. In fact, in the last test year Grosse Ile had by far the highest scores in Math and Science. 85% met or exceeded the state standards for Math (the next highest was Rochester at 79%) and 90% met or exceeded the state standards for Science (the next highest was Novi at 83%). It ranked 2nd overall in Reading (behind Grosse Point) and Writing (behind Riverview). It ranked 12th overall in social studies, but consider that Birmingham ranked 51st overall in the same category...
Oakland County had the other 8 school Districts. The highest ranked district in Macomb County was Romeo at #18.
So while, Wayne County does have DPS and a few other under-performing districts, you can still live in the county and send your kids to some of the best schools in the nation.
(Message edited by hudkina on January 22, 2008) |