Discuss Detroit Archives - January 2008 State of the State Previous Next
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Raptor56
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Username: Raptor56

Post Number: 250
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 7:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm at work and unable to tune in to the State of the State address tonight. can someone fill me in on the good/bad points when it's done, and let me know how many time John Engler gets blamed for our current affairs. I'm hoping Jenny from the block has something for me to actually get blown away by for once.

Thanks much!
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 703
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 7:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i just tuned in. She just promised a 100million deposit into the Michigan rainy day fund, a michigan invests fund to keep entrepreneurs here, and no new taxes or fees in '08.

Right now she is promising to make Michigan into the alternative energy state.
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 1030
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 7:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds like a cheerleader pep talk for business coming to MI so far. Not yet blown away.
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Sg9018
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Username: Sg9018

Post Number: 153
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 7:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This state of the state address could be Granholm's last. She might join a 2008 Hillary Clinton administration.
More in freep,
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20080129/NEW S06/801290342
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J_to_the_jeremy
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Username: J_to_the_jeremy

Post Number: 42
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 7:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like what she's saying about renewable energy...
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Detroitstar
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Username: Detroitstar

Post Number: 907
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 7:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Two Penny Jenny" is practically begging for applause. The long pause and reluctant applause is very awkward. My parents live in the neighborhood near the governor's mansion, and they speak with her often on her daily run...she is a much better speaker than it comes across here.

So far I have counted about 32,000 promised jobs. That's the funniest thing I've heard in years.
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 1031
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 8:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hillary won't win, so we will unfortunately be stuck with her.
Now cherry picking audience plants as being successes of her programs.

She just guaranteed socialized health care when a new president taked office.

(Message edited by lefty2 on January 29, 2008)
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 705
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 8:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

rushed through a mention of support big projects... one of which was the cobo project... ??? wtf...
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Detroitstar
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Username: Detroitstar

Post Number: 909
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 8:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I love the enthusiasm and idea behind her alternative energy ideas, but who in the hell is going to foot the bill? We as a state have such a hard time attracting companies here, what makes her think it will be so easy just because of our geography and skilled labor force?
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Gene
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Username: Gene

Post Number: 41
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 8:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Typical chicken in every pot speech.

What, no mention of cool cities????
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 706
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 8:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

cool cities sucks.
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Detroitstar
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Username: Detroitstar

Post Number: 910
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 8:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL!!

Fox2 cut out so they dont miss the start of American Idol!
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Dustin89
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Username: Dustin89

Post Number: 196
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 9:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought some of the stronger points were the Executive Order creating an insurance advocate--she's always been very strong on fighting insurance redlining, and the part where she asked for historic cooperation/bipartisanship, and turned around and shook the Senate Majority Leader, Lt. Governor, and House Majority Leader's hands. It seemed like a good speech; I have been a Granholm supporter for a while and have always found her to be articulate and intelligent.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 4978
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 9:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

This state of the state address could be Granholm's last. She might join a 2008 Hillary Clinton administration.

It appears that a race for the Kool-Aid in Detroit is about to be run between those supporting Kilpatrick and those supporting Rodham.
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65memories
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Username: 65memories

Post Number: 517
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 9:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All of the pundits said this was her best speech ever. All-inclusive and positive. She received "A's" from even the most cynical critics.
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Eastsiderules
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Username: Eastsiderules

Post Number: 7
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 9:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

she's always been very strong on fighting insurance redlining

I take it you don't live in the city and pay auto and home-owner's insurance rates that can best be described as usurious.
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Novine
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Username: Novine

Post Number: 400
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 10:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"cool cities sucks."

Why? If Republicans want to say "we want tax dollars spent on building interchanges in Bumfork Township so that the next new mega mall can be built, not on projects in our cities", fine, I don't agree with that but I can at least understand the motivation. But the hostility towards the cool cities concept is inversely proportional to the amount of money involved. It's clear that the critics don't really care about the dollars involved, most can't even tell you how much is being spent. They just hate the idea of doing anything that could be construed as helping our cities. Nope, we can't be doing that.
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 1037
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 10:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pundits have an agenda.
It was a good speech, that is not the issue.
Government helping out people or business is not the issue.
The problem is that she wants the State to take over all the social ills and step in and bail out business when the free market and self determination should be the rule.
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Melocoton
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Username: Melocoton

Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 11:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

<"cool cities sucks."
Why?>

I'm not sure I understand Novine's post, but Cool Cities doesn't constitute any investment in our cities. Does anyone really take it seriously? It's basically the state government saying, "Well, I give up. Let's put up some posters and maybe the New York hipsters will come save us."
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Eastsiderules
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Username: Eastsiderules

Post Number: 8
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Tuesday, January 29, 2008 - 11:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

amen Melocoton!
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 7089
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 12:17 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

YAY GRANHOLM!

Michigan is moving forward. Granholm is staying the course. She is saving this state from a recession.
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 1044
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 1:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

cool cities, haha
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Novine
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Username: Novine

Post Number: 402
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 1:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for making my point Melocoton. Having no clue about the program doesn't stop you from spouting off.
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 1046
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 1:40 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yes cool cities is about as lame as libs handing out taxpayer money to anyone who will accept it.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 4867
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 9:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Her plan to offer little or no taxes on businesses locating here that create jobs sounds impressive. It was a good speech, I just wonder where the money will come from for a lot of these ideas, considering she says there won't be new taxes. She really is one of the better speakers I've seen.

She is right on with the alternative energy issue. Michigan has unique resources to be a playground for energy ideas. Even if you don't believe in climate change, it is foolish to not believe alternative energy is still a industry experiencing mega growth, and could be very good for this state. Somebody is going to be doing it if we don't.
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Mcp001
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Username: Mcp001

Post Number: 3225
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 11:35 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd like to know where the money will come from to fund the rest of her "ideas"?

I lost track at about 20 new programs/incentives during her speech.

That money has to come from somewhere, and she already pledged to not raise taxes.
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 547
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 11:37 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

According the article in the freep, the plan is to divert funding from other programs. Apparently, on top of that, she's planning on announcing $200 million in additional budget cuts.
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Mcp001
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Username: Mcp001

Post Number: 3227
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 12:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ha haha hahahahahahahaha.

The guv, cut her own budget?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahaha
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 548
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 12:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you don't believe me, read the article yourself.
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Mcp001
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Username: Mcp001

Post Number: 3228
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 12:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry.

It wasn't you that I was laughing at.

It's the guv thinking that we're gullable enough to believe anything she says anymore.

Six months ago, cutting the budget was an anathema to her.
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 549
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 1:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well whether she's truthful or not, we will find out soon. She said she's presenting her budget in a week or so (I think that's what the article says).

In her defense, six months ago she wasn't against cuts in the budget completely. What she was against was cuts as severe as what the Senate was proposing. In the end, there was a tax increase, but not enough to match expenditures so there was a cut in the budget.
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Mcp001
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Username: Mcp001

Post Number: 3231
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 1:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

F.Y.'07-08 budget was some $700 million more than the F.Y. '06-'07 budget.

Nothing was cut.
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 550
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 1:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mcp001,

$700 million represents only a 1.6% increase in the over $40 billion state budget from one fiscal year to the next. This is well below inflation. So while the size of the budget appears larger when not taken inflation into account, in reality, that additional $700 million in funding does not cover the increase in costs to operate the programs that money funds to the same level. The number is bigger, but it actually buys less than the number did the year before. Thus programs had to be cut.

You aren't comparing apples to apples when you look at one year's budget compared to another's if you don't adjust for inflation.
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Mcp001
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Username: Mcp001

Post Number: 3234
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 1:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Slight problem with that analogy: People are leaving Michigan in droves.

Less residents = less need for services.

Less need for services = lower costs for programs.

Unless you're telling me that there are phantom residents who need these programs?
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 4871
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 1:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

People are leaving Michigan in droves.



Mcp, are you sure? I believe there has actually been an increase in total Michigan population, it's just much lower than it should be. The Detroit metro area has experienced a loss, but the west side of the state has not.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/q fd/states/26000.html

http://www.michigan.gov/hal/0, 1607,7-160--158978--,00.html
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 4981
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 2:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wasn't there recently a newspaper article showing population losses for Detroit, Wayne County, and the state?

The annual moving company report came out at the end of year stating that Michigan again in 2007 (as in 2006) was the leading US state in its migration out/moving in ratio--about two to one.
quote:

Michigan Leads the Nation in Outbound Moves
Mackinac Center for Public Policy ^ | 1-03-2008 | Mackinac Center for Public Policy

Posted on 01/04/2008 11:10:39 PM PST by Westlander

United Van Lines, LLC has released its annual migration study on where it takes its clients to and from among the 48 contiguous states. The Mackinac Center for Public Policy has tested their data against actual census data going back to 1977 and found the two to be very highly correlated. This makes UVL data something of a leading migration indicator. According to UVL, a staggering 67.8 percent of its Michigan client traffic was outbound in 2007. That rate is an all-time record high, eclipsing the previous 1981 record of 66.9 percent during a year the Great Lake State suffered from an unemployment rate of 12.5 percent. Last month the U.S. Census Bureau reported that Michigan lost 30,500 citizens from July 2006 to July 2007.

(Excerpt) Read more at mackinac.org ...

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Mcp001
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Username: Mcp001

Post Number: 3235
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 2:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pretty sure about Michigan.

quote:

Michigan also saw a net population loss of 90,000 in 2007, more than triple the number compared to 2003, which is the first year that several economists contend Michigan entered a "one-state recession."

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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 552
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 2:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

mcp,

It isn't as simple as that. How many people have lost their jobs, healthcare, etc and are now on unemployment or some other assistance? how many more prisoners are there?

Also, there are things that don't change, regardless of population. The same number of state parks are there. There is the same amount of road to maintain and state police needed to patrol them. The same number of lakes and streams have to be patrolled by DNR. The same amount of communities get state aid. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples to list.

The fact of the matter is that funding did not grow at the rate of inflation so services had to be cut. Therefore, in real terms, the budget was cut.
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 553
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 2:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

90,000 is less than a 1% drop. That means that inflation still grew at a greater than 60% faster rate than population decreased.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 4875
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 2:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mcp, thanks, I had not seen that figure yet for 2007. I wonder what their source was, they don't say.
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Mcp001
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Username: Mcp001

Post Number: 3236
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 3:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I haven't been able to find a link yet, probably because it was released only this morning.

But I can tell you that Comerica has a a very good track record regarding the accuracy of the information contained in their reports.

El_jimbo, with residents leaving Michigan en masse and wages of those remaining stagnant or falling, are you telling me that people receiving assistance from the state have more of a right to the money of those of us still working, than those who have actually gone out and earned it?
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 554
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 3:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mcp,

Now you are changing the whole argument. You asked why the programs aren't smaller. My answer was that more people were on these assistance programs.

Also, they aren't taking MORE of your money. The programs have been cut. If you don't understand how inflation works then there is no further point in continuing this conversation.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 4984
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 3:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why are there idiots on DY who keep insisting that welfare programs shouldn't be trimmed also in a poorly declining state economy?

Who gives a damn if welfare recipients' spending power is cut? Shouldn't they leave and find work elsewhere in those other 48 of 50 states that have lifetime limits on welfare? Why are those on welfare in Michigan so damn more important than those paying the welfare freight and such with their taxes?
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 555
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 3:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LY,

Perhaps they don't have the means in which to move. Maybe they don't have the job skills to get a job. Maybe they aren't on welfare at all and are like my friend who is a mechanical engineer who was laid off 4 months ago and is collecting unemployment.

I love how everyone assumes that it is JUST welfare. How many people LOST jobs in michigan this past year and are collecting unemployment benefits?
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 4985
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 3:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit has welfare recipients who are generations deep into the welfare system. Wake up! Those are not ever going to be gainfully employed because the socialist state provides for them.

I somehow believe that it wouldn't be a hard sell in Detroit for a lazy person to have 168 hours a week of leisure time and have the basic needs paid for every month--like clockwork...
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El_jimbo
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Username: El_jimbo

Post Number: 557
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 4:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LY,

So what's the solution? We cut their money off and tell them to get jobs? oh wait...there ARE NO JOB! So we cut off their income so they have no money to spend in the economy and no job prospects to gain income. They'll do one of two things.

A) Leave

B) turn to crime in order to survive

Also, the other effect of this is that without their money being spent in the economy, that means less money being put back into the economy. This means more job loss and more people in need.
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Mcp001
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Username: Mcp001

Post Number: 3239
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 4:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm familiar with inflation.

I can also talk to you about cost of living if that floats your boat.

The bottom line here is that there is what government wants, and what there really is to work with.

Again, with wages stagnant or falling, I am not in favor of dragging the rest of the state down by taking more money from their family budgets, just because the government feels that it can spend money better than those who have earned it.
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Rb336
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Username: Rb336

Post Number: 4860
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 4:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Detroit has welfare recipients who are generations deep into the welfare system"

do you have any proof of this, or are you, as usual, just pulling c@#$ out of your rectum?
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Dsmith
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Username: Dsmith

Post Number: 159
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 4:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So when Jenny blasted "the con men who stoked the subprime crisis" was she talking about Quicken Loans?

"According to estimates by the Michigan Economic Development and Growth Corp., Quicken will get local and state tax breaks of up to $115 million over 20 years because it will be located in a Renaissance Zone. It will also get a $45 million Michigan Economic Growth Act tax credit."

I guess Jenny thinks jobs for 'con men' who push subprime negative-amortization pay option ARMs are more important than Michigan taxpayers' money or homes.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 4883
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 4:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Funny thing about con men. They gotta have suckers to make money.

I got several different mortgage options per company from several different companies when I bought my house. I consulted with people who had experience in buying a home. I cannot even IMAGINE buying a home I could not afford, or getting a loan and not realize the rates would go up after two years.

Buying a house is serious business. Do the necessary footwork and research. It isn't a game. You don't just call Quicken and say "duh ok sounds good!" to the first thing the commission based shark on the other side of phone offers you.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 4884
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 4:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

PS - I have much sympathy for those who have lost their jobs in this difficult economy. Or people who had other catastrophes that caused them to go into forclosure. It's just the whole idea of being "tricked" into an ARM that I'm getting tired of hearing about.
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Rb336
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Username: Rb336

Post Number: 4862
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 4:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

if i recall correctly, quicken hasn't taken much of a hit regarding the sub-primes
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 4885
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 4:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's what I've heard too, but most of that has been from them. So, who knows.
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Mjb3
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Username: Mjb3

Post Number: 164
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 4:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I heard Jenny is going to get Hillary to pass a federal law mandating Big Three vehicles only.

All our problems will be solved then.

Milliken, Blanchard, Engler, Granholm. It doesn't matter. Big Three lose market share, state goes down. Big 3 does well, state goes up.

What does anyone really expect to happen in 20 yrs when B3 share less than 1/3 ?
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Mcp001
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Username: Mcp001

Post Number: 3243
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 5:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can't speak for Quicken, but I do know that the larger banks and lending institutions were successful in selling off most of the sub-prime loans to foreign banks.

They're not too happy with us at the moment.

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