Discuss Detroit Archives - January 2008 Freeway Re-numbering Previous Next
Top of pageBottom of page

Mikeydbn
Member
Username: Mikeydbn

Post Number: 359
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 4:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hypothetically, if the state had the resources available, and the desire to simplify the freeway routing around Metro Detroit, MDOT could change the interstate route numbering.

For example, I-96 could be routed along the current I-696, then follow the Lodge (M-10) into downtown.
This would completely eliminate M-10.

A new spur route for I-94 could be created along the current M-14/I-96 alignment. For example, I called it I-494.

The map below gives an overview of the new routings.


map


Also (not drawn on map) I-275 could be routed along the Current I-696 to I-75 to complete the spur loop. (since the even first number signifies a return to the parent route which does not exist currently)

I do know, that currently, M-14 does not meet the requirements for an interstate route. Does the rebuilt M-10 meet the requirements?
Top of pageBottom of page

Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott

Post Number: 1065
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 4:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The state does not control by itself numbering of Federal highways. The state would have to work with the Federal Highway Administration if it had any interest in such a thing.

I'm curious which requirement, if any, M-14 does not meet. My suspicion is that road does not have a US- or I- number because FHWA did not think it was urgent to provide two expressways from Detroit to Ann Arbor.
Top of pageBottom of page

Mcp001
Member
Username: Mcp001

Post Number: 3241
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 4:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You've lost me here.

How will "re-numbering" these roads make things easier?
Top of pageBottom of page

Chris_rohn
Member
Username: Chris_rohn

Post Number: 393
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 4:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The original plan for I-275 was to extend north and reconnect with I-75 near Holly.

M-10 Was originally going to extend northwest to Fenton.
Top of pageBottom of page

Burnsie
Member
Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 1266
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 4:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Professorscott- The FHWA isn't what MDOT would get permission from. The American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials is the organization that oversees the numbering of interstate (both US- and I-numbered) routes.

See http://www.michiganhighways.or g/listings/HistoricUS-027.html for an explanation of how MDOT got permission from AASHTO to eliminate the US-27 deisgnation.
Top of pageBottom of page

Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 4886
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 4:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the State Fish should be the Walleye instead of the Brook Trout. Nobody cares about Brook Trout.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ndavies
Member
Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2934
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 4:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What difference does a number on a sign make? I wouldn't change my route just because the numbers on the sign change.

When I head to Lansing from downtown I always take the lodge to 696 to 96. I only use 96 out of downtown if I'm headed to Livonia, Canton or the north side of Ann Arbor.
Top of pageBottom of page

Mikeydbn
Member
Username: Mikeydbn

Post Number: 360
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 4:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Exits 3 & 4 on M-14 would have to be re-configured.


map2
Top of pageBottom of page

Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13

Post Number: 3726
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 4:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While we're at it, let's renumber the city streets. Trumbull needs to be 9th, Cochrane/Commonwealth is 10th, Harrison/Avery is 11th, Rosa Parks can go back to being 12th, Vermont is restored to being 13th, Wabash can reclaim its original name of Thirteen and A Half Street, etc., etc.
Top of pageBottom of page

Mikeydbn
Member
Username: Mikeydbn

Post Number: 361
Registered: 04-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 4:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The source for that is http://www.michiganhighways.or g/listings/MichHwys10-19.html# M-014
Top of pageBottom of page

Ndavies
Member
Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2935
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 4:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry, What real benefit would you get from the renumbering? Just renumbering because it makes the map prettier makes no sense at all. Wasting a lot of money for no real world benefits.
Top of pageBottom of page

Mbr
Member
Username: Mbr

Post Number: 287
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 5:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe we don't need the Lodge Freeway at all.
Top of pageBottom of page

Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13

Post Number: 3728
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 5:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, yes, Ndavies, we do need to make the map prettier. High priority.
Top of pageBottom of page

D_mcc
Member
Username: D_mcc

Post Number: 183
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 5:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Doesn't I-275 reconnect with I-75 near Flint???
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 1472
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 5:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

D_mcc, that's (if I recall) US 23.

I think I-475 merges off I-75 toward Flint.

(Message edited by detroitrise on January 30, 2008)
Top of pageBottom of page

Ndavies
Member
Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2936
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 5:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Oh, yes, Ndavies, we do need to make the map prettier. High priority.



Well, if that's the case. I think all the roads should be ripped up and reinstalled as straight lines. I hate all those squiggly freeways lines. Or maybe reinstalled to create a renaissance masterpiece out of my map.
Top of pageBottom of page

Novine
Member
Username: Novine

Post Number: 404
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 5:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If the first post doesn't make sense, you haven't entered in the world of road geeks. They debate this kind of stuff with the passion of presidential politics. Just keep moving, they won't mind if you leave them be.
Top of pageBottom of page

D_mcc
Member
Username: D_mcc

Post Number: 184
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 5:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DR: you are right, 275 connects at the 96/696/M5 interchange in Novi.
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroithabitater
Member
Username: Detroithabitater

Post Number: 118
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 5:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

494 wouldn't make sense

if the last number ends even it is East-West (correct)
if it is a 3 digit number it is a spur that interacts with a city (Correct)
if the first number of a 3 digit number goes AROUND a major city it is even, if the first number is odd it goes INTO a city.

You would probably want to call it 594
Top of pageBottom of page

Neilr
Member
Username: Neilr

Post Number: 649
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 5:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Novine, thank you for your post #404. I was totally lost until you explained this thread for me.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 6231
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 5:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mikeydbn,

Interesting concepts... while there's no real argument for such a change, it does provoke thought.

Your idea does leave out one small section of freeway however... that stretch of the Jeffries between I-94 and I-75 Fisher Fwy.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 2636
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 5:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mikey makes sense to me. M-14 makes no sense at all being designated as simply a state highway. And that I-96, I-696, I-275, M-5 interchange is nothing but a blooming nightmare for an out-0f-towner.
Top of pageBottom of page

Burnsie
Member
Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 1269
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 5:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I consider myself a roadgeek, but am not bothered by most quirks in road numbering. Some numbering is explainable more in terms of historical evolution rather than a sweeping logic.

Just look at the system of numbering for "M" highways in Michigan. There isn't any system. It's almost completely random. There are some exceptions-- like US-27 between Indian River and Cheboygan becoming M-27, and Woodward Ave. becoming M-1 because of its prominence as one of the first major roads in the state.
Top of pageBottom of page

Burnsie
Member
Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 1270
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 5:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The stretch of M-5 that's the Grand River Farmington bypass once was part of I-96-- and it was intended to stay that way, since first plans called for I-96 to parallel Grand River closely all the way to downtown.

Detroithabitater-- An even number beginning a 3-digit route merely means that there it is (or was originally planned to be) a LOOP, with connection to the parent route on both ends.

There were never any rules stating that an even-beginning 3-digit route had to go AROUND a city. Examples: I-475 in Flint, I-675 in Saginaw, and I-496 in Lansing all cut through the hearts of those cities.

Mikeydbn's proposal for I-494 to have an even first digit is correct, since his map shows it connecting to I-94 at both ends.

Ray1936 wrote, "M-14 makes no sense at all being designated as simply a state highway."

Michigan had M-numbered freeways before the Interstate system was even passed into law. An M-number designation on a freeway in Michigan has never implied an inferior status.
Top of pageBottom of page

Mayor_sekou
Member
Username: Mayor_sekou

Post Number: 1857
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 5:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They should merge 75 with 96 north of the Ambassador bridge continue that merge until it reaches the 96-94 then route 75 with 94 until it reaches the intersection where 75 and 94 meet now. Then you could get 94 widened because now it is two freeways, 96 wouldn't be such a waste of space in the
area and then 75 wouldn't cut straight thru downtown. If that makes sense.
Top of pageBottom of page

Burnsie
Member
Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 1271
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 6:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also, "state highways" In Michigan are officially anything that has an I, M, or US route designation. There are even some non-numbered state highways.
Top of pageBottom of page

Yeti
Member
Username: Yeti

Post Number: 39
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 7:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The route we all refer to as I-275 between 696/M5 and 96/14 is actually I-96 and is also designated as I-275. Officially its primary designation is I-96
Top of pageBottom of page

Ferntruth
Member
Username: Ferntruth

Post Number: 319
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 9:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Could we please get back to the important issue here - what does JohnLodge have against the Brook Trout? =)
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 1474
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 9:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL Ferntruth.

I hate White Pines! Why are they so important?! There's hardly any in Detroit! The Oak Tree should be the state tree!
Top of pageBottom of page

Novine
Member
Username: Novine

Post Number: 407
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 30, 2008 - 11:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"The Oak Tree should be the state tree!"

Negative - the white pines and the lumber industries that they made possible created the fortunes of the families that financed the rise of the automotive industry in Michigan. As bad as things are around here, you can make the case that the white pines were responsible for 100 years of prosperity in Michigan thanks to the automobile.

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.