 
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 652
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 10:12 am: |    |
Not my video, but the credit claims "Detroit." This could have been shot on my former block.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =-tb-ImEIZm4&feature=related |
Bearinabox
Member
Username: Bearinabox
Post Number: 514
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 11:44 am: | |
^Gotta love the comments on that video. Some variation of "nigger," "monkey" and/or "ape" was used in 99% of them. Real classy. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 654
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 11:55 am: | |
OK, maybe better to view with the sound off (but then you'll miss the crack about what was 'did' to the frying pan and the exchange re: a 40).
Tragicomedy, maybe, but the bottom fell out of Detroit for people who kept their homes and didn't take their problems into the street. Hundreds of thousands who went on to places like Southfield and Farmington Hills and Sterling Heights would probably agree. |
Bearinabox
Member
Username: Bearinabox
Post Number: 515
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 11:58 am: | |
I wasn't referring to the sound in the video itself. Read the "comments" section below the video, where seemingly every racist asshole on God's green earth came out of the woodwork to state categorically that all drunk idiots are black, and that all black people are drunk idiots. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 655
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 12:05 pm: | |
Usually I just skip the comments - seldom find much value in those. |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 653
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 1:14 pm: | |
On saturday Mrs. Gnome and I found ourselves on the eastside, and while I always try to obey jjaba's rules, I do occasionally cross Woodward.
Mrs. Gnome wanted to drive by her childhood place on Dickerson at Mack. Right down the alley from that ice cream place with the huge cow on the roof.
It had been a few years since she'd been back in the neighborhood and she had checked out some of the new homes on google maps and live.search.
Bad idea.
Yes, some new homes had been built; but sadly they weren't occupied. Windows and doors boarded up, siding missing, some of it burned. Jeeze.
We parked in front of her old building and she was telling stories about Mary Kay Marcy playing Barbies and Tommy Donahugh with his fancy stingray ... then some neighbors saw her.
"oh, look a white girl! You look like ghosts at night!" offered one shocked man. Meanwhile, another voter asked us for 2 dollars "to get right".
On the way back west, on Warren, an older gentleman is flashing his lights and waving madly at us. He has his window down and is shaking his arm, I rolled down the window (I know stupid) and this man - he has got to be close to 70 yrs - just lets fly a bunch of angry words. He then swerves in front and speeds off.
Neither Mrs. Gnome nor I had any idea what he said. He was screaming in a language that sounded like english, but was totally unintelligible.
We don't know even how to process the days events. They were sooo random.
Oh boy, ...
I can't tell you how sad this made us. |
Lombaowski
Member
Username: Lombaowski
Post Number: 84
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 9:19 am: | |
My Family moved out of Franklin Park in 1986 because of a lot of neighborhood larceny and the fact I was going to have to go to Cody which was a pretty rough school and I think my parents felt I'd get into a lot of trouble.
I mean as the years passed from 1972 the crime in the neighborhood just got worse every single year. You couldn't leave anything laying in the yard or it was gone the next day (someone stole the swings off our swingset!). The garage was broken in to hundreds of times and whatever was inside was gone. Floormats from the car, nuts and bolts, even those old steel trash cans. Grandale had gotten real bad by then and there were murders just blocks away and Rogue Park had become pretty unsavory as well. In the 70s we’d go to the park with family and friends and spend the whole day and walk home but you couldn’t do that by the mid-eighties. That's just no way to live at all and my Dad got a job in Bay City and we moved up there. During HS after I got my driver’s license I spent a lot of time in my old neighborhood with friends but even in two years the neighborhood had changed and more people were moving out and Grandale got closer. Good friend of mine from the neighborhood was killed in 1990 at the gas station/convenience store on the corner of Evergreen and Plymouth and I didn’t go back for a long time after that.
After High School I left for the military and I’ve lived all but four years overseas since. The two years I spent back in Michigan I worked in Southfield and in Flint and considered living in North Rosedale Park or in Old Redford but decided to get a place closer to Flint because of commute times which I ended up regretting since I worked in Southfield a lot. My old neighborhood of Franklin Park isn’t that great these days but it’s a lot better than a lot of other neighborhoods in Detroit and I visit old neighbors every time I am home. The bars on the windows and the stories or break-ins and the residents not feeling safe after dark was not what we had in the late 70s and early 80s though and there are even some boarded up houses (especially between W Chicago and Joy east of Evergreen) which back in the day was such a nice neighborhood.
Times change but sometimes they change for all the wrong reasons. I think if the petty crime which usually leads to a pattern of more serious crime wasn’t there in the mid 80s, we probably would have stayed and I would have went to a private school or at least tried Cody. We still had a really good neighborhood in the 80s and most of the original black families that moved there in the 70s are still there today. But they miss the old days as much as those who left and I know a lot of them would leave too if they could. Good ole Westwood Street isn’t what it used to be. |
Edziu
Member
Username: Edziu
Post Number: 34
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 12:22 pm: | |
I didn't leave Detroit. Detroit left me.
Block by block, neighborhood by neighborhood, building by building.
Slowly but surely!••••• |
Figebornu
Member
Username: Figebornu
Post Number: 34
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 1:00 pm: | |
As the person who originally posted this question, I just want to say to Lowell - "don't hate, appreciate my presence while you got me."
lol |
Irunwscissors
Member
Username: Irunwscissors
Post Number: 15
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 1:40 pm: | |
My parents moved in 1977, when my fathers job moved from Detroit to Troy. They were happy in Detroit and they never had any trouble. However Mom not having a car and 3 kids under the age of 5, Dad often working nights and late hours it seemed logical to be closer to his family while at the job.
My mom had pointed out to me on occasion that they new house they custom built in Sterling Heights cost the same as the 40 year old house they lived in. It was appealing to twenty- somethings to have something new and different.
I would love to move back one day, my parents old house on Bramell is even on the market! |
Carolcb
Member
Username: Carolcb
Post Number: 3694
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 2:25 pm: | |
Well, I will tell you my parent's story. To begin with, my mother's family are all farmers who all lived elsewhere in the Midwest. My father's family all lived in one small town, also in the Midwest. My dad's uncle, was the Mayor of this town. He used to play football with Red Grange...he was the football captain, you name it.
My mom and dad got married in 1936 and moved to Detroit because of my dad's work. In 1973, my dad retired. I was still in high school.
There was never a lot of family support for my parents's staying in Detroit from their siblings. It still blows my mind (in a good way) that my dad ever left the small town he grew up in! But sadly, I believe my parents left because they simply thought the neighborhood was going to the dogs. They moved back to my mom's hometown when I was a sophomore in college.
Now here comes the interesting part. They originally lived in land that my uncle owned, down a private road in the middle of nowhere. A DMV lived just about a quarter of a mile past them, back in the woods. The Vet eventually moved. A couple other sales of that house came and went. And then these two brothers, who worked for a large engine manufacturer moved in. Lots of trucks, 4-wheelers, boats. Lots of visitors. Come to find out, although they did have "good jobs" they were stealing everything they could possibly put on a flat-bed trailer- hiding it in the barns, the woods. They took everything they stole and gave it to their family in Arkansas, and visa versa. On top of that, they had a nice meth lab on the property as well.
My parents, of course, could not believe this. The house was stripped, everyone went to prison, including one of the wives. The kids - toddlers - went God knows where. The last time my mom saw one of the women, she came down begging to use the phone.
The house I grew up in? The same people live there who bought it in 1973. It sure looks a bit grim, but a lot of the neighbors are still there, sans the ones who have since past. My parents consider selling that house and moving as the biggest mistake they ever made. |
Quickdrawmcgraw
Member
Username: Quickdrawmcgraw
Post Number: 107
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 10:49 pm: | |
My job was outsourced and I had to leave not only the city but the state as well. |
Eastsiderules
Member
Username: Eastsiderules
Post Number: 19
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 11:49 pm: | |
how disappointing that you would judge these people as "racist". Seems to me, they were only concerned about their safety and welfare, as well as their children, not what you imply. Show me one of the prior posts that even mention "race".... What a small narrow minded way you have of thinking........Jane
Jane, Jane, Jane,
As a lifelong Detroiter(and white guy) I don't need to see the words, it can be inferred. I attended a suburban Catholic High school in the late 70s and was absolutely amazed and appalled at the overt racism.
Throughout the years i have heard the horseshit excuses (i.e.crime, property values etc.) people have spewed as to why they left. My conclusion in too many cases is simply racism- you, ot your parents, didn't want to live on a block with above X number of blacks.. The same reason whites were(before the housing bubble burst) fleeing from the inner eastside suburbs to the far reaches. If you don't want to see the obvious, then oh well.
As for fern's comment that your parents left the doors unlocked, you must have lived in a part of town that was, shall we say, less hardscrabble than the one in which I grew up.(lower east side, 60s and 70s)
Best wishes all. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11319
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 1:59 am: | |
quote:I didn't leave Detroit. Detroit left me.
Block by block, neighborhood by neighborhood, building by building.
Slowly but surely!•••••
I would say that you and the hundreds of thousands like you that left the city have no right to claim 'Detroit let you'
The whining of the people that fled the city and contributed to its demise is appalling. You and your family hurt Detroit just as you claim Detroit hurt you. |
Newport1128
Member
Username: Newport1128
Post Number: 168
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 4:52 pm: | |
Eastsiderules, what's your explanation for so many blacks leaving Detroit for suburbs like Harper Woods, Eastpointe, St. Clair Shores & Warren?
(Message edited by Newport1128 on February 06, 2008) |
Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 2684
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 5:20 pm: | |
You really want to know why I left Detroit for Las Vegas? You gotta be kidding! (From WDIV web)
|
Daf
Member
Username: Daf
Post Number: 46
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 5:39 pm: | |
Mrs. Daf and I were both lifelong suburbanites, but we bought our first house in Detroit - loved the house, liked the neighborhood well enough. But 4 years later I had to move to DC, and we were REAL disappointed in the property values - we lost money despite sinking thousands into improvements.
So when we moved back to the Detroit area 6 years later, we didn't really consider buying in Detroit again. We wound up out in St. Clair county on 10 acres - did pretty well for ourselves, and love the elbow room. Not the commute so much.
I miss the city. I miss the diversity and the cultural stuff. I'd move back if I could, but (a) Mrs. Daf doesn't agree, and (b) property is having the same trouble moving out our way as it is in the D.
So I spend as much time as I can in Detroit, and try to enjoy the enjoyable parts about being in the boonies when I'm there - like, I have no idea where any of our house keys are. Don't need em. And I can watch the wildlife run through our back yard from the hot tub. And we get excellent veggies from our garden during the summer. And I get to host a 4-day outdoor jam session every spring with guests camping out in the yard. Try THAT in Detroit, LOL...
Daf |
Grumpyoldlady
Member
Username: Grumpyoldlady
Post Number: 2
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 12:42 am: | |
We moved out in 1989, after a gal a few houses down the block from us took a shot at her boyfriend out the front door of the house and just missed my 7 year old son riding his bike on the sidewalk. Until then I didn't care if there was a minority family on the block. We headed for the country just west of Port Huron...and when that area started having breakins and robberies committed by Detroiters, we packed up again and headed for rural Minnesota...where it has been like a different world, except for the drugs, which are everywhere. |
Stinger4me
Member
Username: Stinger4me
Post Number: 171
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 4:35 am: | |
The state of the city. Moved out and didn't look back, not much reason to return to it except to visit family. When the family moved out no more reasons. A nice place to be from but I certainly don't go back. I can get onto this website and read about it. I wonder if Ray1936 left 'cause of the traffic or weather or both? |
Chuckles
Member
Username: Chuckles
Post Number: 152
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 8:00 am: | |
Born and raised Detroit, Dixon elementary, Frank Cody HS, married and tried to raise 2 children in Detroit Zone 28....then came 1974 and I was told to bus my kids 7 or 8 miles away towards city....moved to Livingston County, South Lyon...
33 years & 4 grandchildren later moved back to Plymouth old town East...
I use Detroit all the time...Farmers Market...DIA...Casino's... Greek Town... Joe Louis...Cobo Hall... DuMuchelles...River Walk...Downtown area...Restraunts...Mexican Town on Bagley is great, Duly's or Dooley's on W.Vernor has best Coneys.... etc,etc,etc,etc....
I love Detroit, it is good and it is bad and it is in my blood...I am proud to be a former Detroiter and actually consider myself a Detroiter to the bone.....
regards |
Carolcb
Member
Username: Carolcb
Post Number: 3727
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 10:06 am: | |
Grumpyoldlady, welcome! From another old grump! |
Grumpyoldlady
Member
Username: Grumpyoldlady
Post Number: 4
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 3:31 pm: | |
Carolcb...thank you! |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 1120
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 3:39 pm: | |
To find a job, but I moved back to the city as soon as I got a job in it. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1540
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 6:16 pm: | |
"Eastsiderules, what's your explanation for so many blacks leaving Detroit for suburbs like Harper Woods, Eastpointe, St. Clair Shores & Warren?"
Newport, what's your explanation for the Whites Fleeing towards Fenton, Howell, etc.? |
Newport1128
Member
Username: Newport1128
Post Number: 171
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 7:24 pm: | |
The same reasons they left Detroit: crime, declining schools and city services.
That's my explanation. Now let's hear Eastside rules' explanation. What's your's, Detroitrise? |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1541
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 8:08 pm: | |
I don't have an explanation. Both sides are wrong in my opinion. We shouldn't have to be dealing with any of this.
You're making it a one-sided issue. Eastsiderules does have a point. It is true that white people in this region move further away when black people move in.
Can you explain why doesn't that group of people just stay there and give the situation a chance (maybe try to solve the issue instead of feed it) instead of living in no-man's land? |
Newport1128
Member
Username: Newport1128
Post Number: 172
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 8:21 pm: | |
Why didn't the blacks who are leaving Detroit "stay there and give the situation a chance (maybe try to solve the issue instead of feed it)" ? |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1542
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 9:03 pm: | |
Why didn't the whites back in 1967 "stay there and give the situation a chance (maybe try to solve the issue instead of feed it)" ?
Now, I'm not trying to start a racial issue, but your finger pointing isn't helping. |
Whithorn11446
Member
Username: Whithorn11446
Post Number: 194
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 10:03 pm: | |
"Why didn't the whites back in 1967 "stay there and give the situation a chance (maybe try to solve the issue instead of feed it)" ?"
Thousands of whites did stay awhile after the riots and a good number of them lost their asses.
Sometimes people get tired of walking into their house and wondering what the hell awaits them. Is the gas going to be running because the stove was pulled out of the wall again ? Is a gun going to be pointed at my head because the new wonderful next neighbor wants to ransack the house and doesn't believe I was cleaned out three weeks before and nothing is left to steal.
Damn....Interesting that whitey who left in 1983 is as much or more to blame for Detroit's fate compared to whitey that left in 1957. Oh well...that's life.
(Message edited by Whithorn11446 on February 08, 2008) |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1543
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, February 08, 2008 - 10:13 pm: | |
So the best alternative (at the end of the day) is to invent a environment destroying, asshat lifestyle where you think you feel comfortable?
Then, the worse part, the "suburbanites" complain why Detroit looks the way it does, when in reality, it's all their fault.
You need money for a place to function right. If all the money is walking out the backdoor along with its piggybanks, what else can you do? You can't expect a fairy to come in and make things miraculously better. |
Meaghansdad
Member
Username: Meaghansdad
Post Number: 230
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 12:02 am: | |
"You need money for a place to function right. If all the money is walking out the backdoor along with its piggybanks, what else can you do? You can't expect a fairy to come in and make things miraculously better."
As a parent, I couldnt have waited for the infamous "miracle" you speak of.
Its suburbanites fault that the city looks like it does? Bullshit, Theres a majority of residents in the city that doesnt clean their yards, doesnt raise their children, and refuses to punish their misbehaved children. As a new menber. I think its a very ill-informed statement |
Eastsiderules
Member
Username: Eastsiderules
Post Number: 24
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 12:25 am: | |
Detroitrise,
They are moving out because the schools suck and are a war zone, yet no where near what the schools and city were in the 60s or 70s when you or your parents fled the D.
Things are a lot different now than back then. |
Brenda
Member
Username: Brenda
Post Number: 50
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 12:36 am: | |
I left Detroit (worked there for 10 years) for another date within a few hours back to friends and family. I live in a more affordable, safer and calmer smaller town. Reminds me of the east side I grew up in the Jefferson/Charlmers area and my years at Guyton. The city, the auto, the greed, the "enemy within" the area has strip'd it forever. Even after the Devil's Night fires ceased, the polarization continues and exists today. The pc has divided the people instead of being Detroiters, they section themselves by race-american or race-Detroiter...a nation divided will not stand.......in Detroit's case, a people divided and corruption the norm will fade as Rome did...the power of the big 3 is gone, the jobs are gone.....so I am gone from there too...life is too short to be miserable, especially as a boomer....Detroit needs a "miracle"...amen to that!•••• |
Brenda
Member
Username: Brenda
Post Number: 51
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 12:41 am: | |
I meant to say state...sorry about that... |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 1102
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 12:49 am: | |
Brenda-
wow, what a statement, you speak for many..... |
Brenda
Member
Username: Brenda
Post Number: 52
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 12:55 am: | |
Thanks Lefty2...but I wished it wasn't true..I miss the beautiful Detroit of my youth, the prosperity, the power the city had and not turned into such dispair and disgrace........."Potterville" |
Oladub
Member
Username: Oladub
Post Number: 127
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 1:55 am: | |
A letter came in the mail saying that beginning the next year my stepbrother and I were going to be bussed. My Father, a carpenter, bought a lot out by Baseline and Mack and built a house. He voted with his hammer. We transferred from Finney to GPHS. He never told me about the letter until 40 years later.
I later moved to Ferry Street while attending WSU. I moved away again when I transferred to MSU.
I suppose there are notes of racism in opposing bussing. I never had to make such decisions for my kids but I didn't take kindly to some attempts at (non-racial) social engineering that the local school system tried to foist on my kids like "cooperative learning". |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11321
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 2:48 am: | |
quote:We headed for the country just west of Port Huron...and when that area started having breakins and robberies committed by Detroiters
I find it hard to believe that 'Detroiters' are heading out to the Port Huron area to break in to homes. |
Chuckles
Member
Username: Chuckles
Post Number: 154
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 7:46 am: | |
Detroit is what....85% Black...and yet when I go to Eastern Market I see 85% White...why is that ? |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 696
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 9:29 am: | |
Jt1
http://www.thetimesherald.com/ apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007 712080302
quote:Djuvon Carter and Vincent Johnston, both 16-year-old Detroit residents, pleaded guilty Friday to robbing several Port Huron banks last summer.
Carter pleaded guilty to four charges of armed robbery. As part of plea agreement, eight other charges stemming from the robberies were dropped. Johnston pleaded guilty to one charge of armed robbery. He originally faced three charges. |
Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1
Post Number: 11322
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 12:07 pm: | |
So that is one example and is not indicitave that a rash of robberies and break ins years ago was due to Detroiters.
I just question how many Detroiters are going to the greater Port Huron area for crime. If it was Ferndale or Warren it woudl make sense. In this case it does not. |
Roadmaster49
Member
Username: Roadmaster49
Post Number: 14
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 12:19 pm: | |
The outside perception that I have is that white ethnic groups that could moved (not fled) to the suburbs. The appeal of a new home is the same in central Iowa as it is in Detroit.
Blacks took over the inner city neighborhoods and then crime followed. This isn't much different then Chicago or in some cases, parts of Des Moines, Iowa.
What I never understood is why Blacks would want to commit crimes and bring down the integrity of their neighborhoods, even if they are living in hand-me-down homes, as it were.
I have seen many of these homes, brick, with fireplaces, nice looking yards, nice architecture. I personally prefer these homes over suburb homes.
I can say that the new constructionin Iowa, adn much of the post world war II homes in Iowa, are cookie cutter, and not up tot he construction of these Detroit homes I see.
I always thought that Black leadership would step in and Blacks would say "enough is enough" and kick the bums out. I would think a black family and a black neighborhood would want the same quality of life as other ethnic groups.
Maybe my perception is wrong, and the crime that brought inner city Detroit to it's knees is multi-ethnic, but like I said, it's perception that the blacks moved in and things went downhill after that. |
Figebornu
Member
Username: Figebornu
Post Number: 45
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 10:47 am: | |
Considering the centuries old destruction of the language, culture and religion of Blacks, I would be terribly surprised if they did not comitt mayhem. It is funny and pathetic that whites and others would be so alarmed at Blacks behaving negatively. In short, many Blacks exhibit the qualities of hate produced by hate (white wannabe supremacy, etc.).
It will take some time (a few more generations) for Blacks to enjoy an wholesome and quality life - that is if the forces and entities that caused their downfall ease to exist. |
Roadmaster49
Member
Username: Roadmaster49
Post Number: 15
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 3:45 pm: | |
I think you are painting with a broad brush. I think sociologically, the issues can be pinpointed but the solutions seem to escape black leaders, city leaders, and solvers. It can't happen overnight, but that's what plans are for.
Negative black behaviour? I'm not sure ther eis black behaviour. Each particular individual is responsible for their behaviour. As a group, you can say poverty effects such and such group, and in Detroit that might be AAmericans, not sure. |
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