Discuss Detroit Archives - January 2008 Appeal your Property Tax Now Previous Next
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 1062
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 31, 2008 - 10:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's that time of year again. Time to protest high taxes and over assessed property.
You have from Feb. 1st to Feb. 15th. two weeks, wow, how thoughtful to give everyone so much time.
go to city hall # 824 (313) 224-3035

Best of all, for your inconvenience, the city will not put these forms online, because they do not want you to protest your SEV and want you to waste your time and force you to come to City Hall.
make sure your up to date on taxes though.
If you didn't have your property appraised recently, go to you favorite real estate agent and ask them for 'SOLD COMPS' in the last 90 or less days in your area you live.
This will support your protest that the house you bought last spring for 35,000 is not worth 110,000.
Most likely they will deny you for any reason, so you have to appeal their decision and file it right away. This is when you bring in the sold comps to the Board of Review appeal and say, what up yo!


Detroit city assessor - finance sites
http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/fi ntreasury/
http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/fi naccessors/default.htm
Also tax break zones in the D http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/fi naccessors/nez.htm
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Wilus1mj
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Username: Wilus1mj

Post Number: 242
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 11:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great advice...it never hurts to try.
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Graceful
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Username: Graceful

Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 12:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the info Lefty!

Any real estate agents out there willing to help me out with comps? I definitely plan on fighting this.
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Nativegirl
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Username: Nativegirl

Post Number: 92
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 1:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thx Lefty. And Graceful, hopefully and helpful and friendly real estate agents can assist us!
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Mcp001
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Username: Mcp001

Post Number: 3264
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 1:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is all well and good.

But the way Prop A is worded, taxes can only rachet up, not down.
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Novine
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Username: Novine

Post Number: 414
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 4:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"But the way Prop A is worded, taxes can only rachet up, not down."

Not true, it depends on your property values. Once your assessed value drops to the point that it equals your taxable value, further drops in assessed value will see an equal drop in taxable value. Ironically, this is most likely to happen in communities with a lot of new construction or high turnover of homes, where the gap between assessed and taxable values is the smallest. Those high-growth communities will be hit first by the fall in property values.
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Wilus1mj
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Username: Wilus1mj

Post Number: 243
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 9:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's right. My assessed value as well as my taxable value has gone down the past 2 years. I bought my house in 2005.
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Irish_mafia
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Username: Irish_mafia

Post Number: 1196
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 11:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is where the city gets to follow that oft quoted phrase " we must give back".

Good work Lefty.
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Granmontrules
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Username: Granmontrules

Post Number: 298
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Friday, February 01, 2008 - 11:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I live in one of the mayor's NEZ areas. Our taxes dropped by almost 3,000 a year. I am not protesting anything!
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Bulletmagnet
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Username: Bulletmagnet

Post Number: 966
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 02, 2008 - 9:56 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lefty2, all my Democratic friends want to roll back the Bush tax cuts. So why protest this? You should be thankful the government lets you keep ANY of the money you earn; after all, it belongs to them. Sheesh!

(Message edited by Bulletmagnet on February 02, 2008)
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Rsa
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Username: Rsa

Post Number: 1386
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 1:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

don't even bother with this. went in today and the person i spoke with said he was issued a mandate to not lower anybody's taxes at all. your best bet is to appeal in march, but even then the city is not going to do anything. basically, the only way you're going to lower your taxes is to take the appeal all the way up to the state level.
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Graceful
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Username: Graceful

Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 1:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rsa, I recall reading on another thread that more than likely the city will ALWAYS deny your case but then you appeal to the state and they usually always approve it. Unfortunately you have to go through the city process first.
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Rsa
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Username: Rsa

Post Number: 1387
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 1:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thanx graceful; that's a little better news (that the state might approve it). how long does it usually take for it to get to the state level and then get (potentially) approved?

but i was also relaying my experience so nobody else goes down there and wastes their time...
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Detroitbill
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Username: Detroitbill

Post Number: 449
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 2:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Want to get an online appraisal of your house value ??..
go to zillow.com,, type in your address/location under search.. you can also find the values of your neighbors also,,
you might be shocked,

(Message edited by Detroitbill on February 04, 2008)
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

Post Number: 1008
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 3:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Zillow is beyond useless for property values in the city of Detroit.
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Wilus1mj
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Username: Wilus1mj

Post Number: 244
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 4:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Zillow is pretty much useless, especially when it takes data by zip code. City/County appraisers look at certain neighborhoods/subs within zip codes to determine values.
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Mackcreative
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Username: Mackcreative

Post Number: 182
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 5:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I went through this process last year, it was only resolved two weeks ago, began the process last Feb. I can detail my experience if anyone is interested.
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Rsa
Member
Username: Rsa

Post Number: 1388
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 5:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i'd be interested mack. we just closed on our house last week and are going to be starting that process.

if you don't want to relay it on the forum, feel free to email me at rockstarchitect(at)aol(dot)com
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Mackcreative
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Username: Mackcreative

Post Number: 183
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 5:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll email you in the morning.
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Rsa
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Username: Rsa

Post Number: 1389
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 5:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

cool, thanx!
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Graceful
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Username: Graceful

Post Number: 10
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 5:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mack, I'm also interested D_lil402 at yahoo dot com.

Thanks!
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Wilus1mj
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Username: Wilus1mj

Post Number: 245
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 8:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

anybody get there's in the mail yet???
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Novine
Member
Username: Novine

Post Number: 419
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Monday, February 04, 2008 - 11:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"i'd be interested mack. we just closed on our house last week and are going to be starting that process."

How do you expect to be able to appeal an assessment on a house you just bought?
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Rsa
Member
Username: Rsa

Post Number: 1391
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 8:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

because the SEV is more than we bought the house for. and the appraisal is close to what the last appraisal during the last sale is and we want to avoid them doubling our taxes simply because time has progressed. you've never bought a house in the city, have you novine?
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Graceful
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Username: Graceful

Post Number: 11
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 9:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wilus1mj,

I got mine in the mail last week. I'm still waiting to find out what the NEZ cut will be. I did receive my acceptance letter for that though but there wasn't an amount listed.
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Ferntruth
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Username: Ferntruth

Post Number: 353
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 10:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Lefty2, all my Democratic friends want to roll back the Bush tax cuts"

You mean the tax cuts that favor the rich? yes, we want to roll those back.
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Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 1086
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 10:13 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^ I think BulletMag was saying that with tongue in cheek.
but seriously, I favor any lowering of any taxes, less money for the Gov. is more money for you. Unless you don't work of course.
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 1087
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 10:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

again - Go to the City/Cty Bldg (Coleman Young Bldg.) and fill out the form they give you (8th Fl.). You need to write down what you think your property is worth. Get "sold comps in your area" to give yourself an idea, make sure Sq Ft etc is comparable with your house.

"The Assessment rolls are open for public inspection during business hours in Room 804 City-County Bldg. 8:30 - 4:30"
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 7107
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 10:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Everyone except the American Indians MUST pay their taxes. It's to keep the economy going. You brought your property. You keep your property and you are going to pay your property.
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 1089
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 10:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Most churches don't pay property taxes.
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Mackcreative
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Username: Mackcreative

Post Number: 184
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 11:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pay property taxes on the value of your home, yes. Pay property tax on an incorrect assessment of the value of your home, no.
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Baliad
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Username: Baliad

Post Number: 77
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 11:11 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mack, can i get documentation of your process too???
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Jdub1106
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Username: Jdub1106

Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 7:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cyberhomes.com has extremely realistic appraisals for the city...
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Novine
Member
Username: Novine

Post Number: 421
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 10:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"because the SEV is more than we bought the house for. and the appraisal is close to what the last appraisal during the last sale is and we want to avoid them doubling our taxes simply because time has progressed. you've never bought a house in the city, have you novine?"

If you just bought the house, it doesn't get reassessed by the city until the next tax year, which is December 31, 2008. I suppose you can argue the current SEV but the claim that they'll increase the assessment because it changed hands isn't based on how the system works.
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Rsa
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Username: Rsa

Post Number: 1394
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 9:32 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

If you just bought the house, it doesn't get reassessed by the city until the next tax year, which is December 31, 2008


wrong. they told us to expect the updated taxes for the next tax round in july. which is double the current rate.

quote:

I suppose you can argue the current SEV but the claim that they'll increase the assessment because it changed hands isn't based on how the system works


wrong. the last assessment was done over ten years ago and reflects that time's worth and market. the only reason they are reassessing it is because it has changed hands. they don't reassess home while an owner is residing in the house.

if you're curious as to how this process is working, i'd be happy to answer any questions of what i'm currently going thru. but i get the impression that you're just arguing for the sake of argument. if so, this is my last response to you.

ps. we have the last assessment on the house and have been given the current/future assessment of what the city thinks the house is worth. it is doubled. we payed for the house less than the last assessment.

(Message edited by rsa on February 06, 2008)
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Graceful
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Username: Graceful

Post Number: 12
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 11:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ditto what Rsa just said. I bought my house January 07 and they reassessed my house for Summer and Winter 07 taxes. We paid only $1k more than the assessed value. I just didn't know that I could fight it last year.
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 1092
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 2:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You really need to go to a real estate office and nicely ask them to print recent (<90 days) SOLD Comps in your zip code and nearby streets with - same Sq. Ft. bedrooms etc

These are good web site for general info and some sales info but will usually give you too HIGH a figure. You want the lowest sold comps in your area.
Cyberhomes . com , Zillow . com, Trulia . com, realtor . com.
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Rsa
Member
Username: Rsa

Post Number: 1395
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 2:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lefty; do you know how close/far away they want comps for? my neighborhood is really all over the place as far as sale prices and am wondering what would be better to provide/what they are looking for (eg. next door neighbors, a few blocks away, etc.). if it's within a half mile, then i could definitely prove my case either way...
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Mackcreative
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Username: Mackcreative

Post Number: 186
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 3:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Doing your homework is really not that necessary. No one EVER looked at any of the copious amounts of documentation: comps, photos, appraisal, etc. I was successful because I followed everything up in person, phone calls were completely ineffectual. It is to the city's benefit for them to never return calls, never come to appraise in person, never return paperwork; they count on your assumption they'll do what they're supposed to in the time frames that they put forth. If you are persistent you will be successful, every person that appealed to the board of appeals the same day as me had their assessments lowered, the MO seemed to be half-way between the current assessment and what you thought the assessment should be.
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Mackcreative
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Username: Mackcreative

Post Number: 187
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 3:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rsa, what neighborhood did you choose, if you don't mind sharing.
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Novine
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Username: Novine

Post Number: 424
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 3:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"wrong. the last assessment was done over ten years ago and reflects that time's worth and market. the only reason they are reassessing it is because it has changed hands. they don't reassess home while an owner is residing in the house."

I know that. My comment was in regards to the question of a mid-year change in assessed value. The assessor can review the property at the point that it changes hands. But that assessment can't be made official until December 31st. If Detroit is making mid-year changes in assessment, they're not following the law:

"(2) The taxable status of persons and real and personal property for a tax year shall be determined as of each December 31 of the immediately preceding year, which is considered the tax day, any provisions in the charter of any city or village to the contrary notwithstanding. An assessing officer is not restricted to any particular period in the preparation of the assessment roll but may survey, examine, or review property at any time before or after the tax day."

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/ mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&obje ctName=mcl-211-1a&relation=nex t
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Rsa
Member
Username: Rsa

Post Number: 1396
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 3:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thanx for the info novine, that's good to know. i'll hold onto that in case they try and bill me with the new assessment in july. i was operating off what the people in the city county building had told us to expect and some experiences of friends that have also purchased lately (and i wouldn't be surprised one bit if the city wasn't following the law in order to get more tax dollars in their coffers).

mack; we settled on new center commons. it is a really great neighborhood and the house was a deal we couldn't pass up. we would've really liked to be in woodbridge tho! please pass on any info or advice for this whole process; it'd be much appreciated!
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Lefty2
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Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 1095
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 06, 2008 - 3:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mackcreative - correct - persistence helps, armed with data
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Magnasco
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Username: Magnasco

Post Number: 235
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 8:46 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Last year I just appealed the actual increase and they agreed with me.

This year the assessment on my EEV home purchased at the end of 2003 actually showed a drop in taxable value, with a corresponding expected savings of about $200. That, along with the Neighborhood NEZ still puts me at around $6000 in taxes on a taxable value of around 105 k.

We will see how that goes, but it seems they have opened the door on this one by offering to decrease it by something. Now we just need to argue comps and values.

The first guy when you go in will auto deny you, then you set your hearing before the local board. This is the one that granted my stay on value last year. I am not expecting them to be so kind when I ask for a large reduction. Maybe I will get to see the State Tax Tribunal this year.
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Magnasco
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Username: Magnasco

Post Number: 236
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 9:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As an FYI for anyone who cares, I got my appeal filed today. You still have two more days to go in tot he 8th floor of CAYMC, room 804. It was pretty painless and didn't even take the whole hour I had on the meter.

They said that the reason they can't reduce the value any further than the 1 or 2 % that they did this year is that they are not allowed to use any foreclosures in their calculations.

I still know that comps in my neighborhood show my value down more than a percent or two over the last three years, which is the period I think she said they use. But maybe the first years help offset the last. Who knows.

She said my denial letter will be mailed by the 28th, I think, and that when I get it I call to set the appointment with the local Board.
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Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2

Post Number: 1165
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 10:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I went in for my appeal before, because they NEVER say we agree the first time, and there was a table with about ten or so people around it and about another five or eight against the walls.
It is meant to be intimidating but in fact they usually no more idea what real values are than you do if you did any homework.
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Mrsjdaniels
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Username: Mrsjdaniels

Post Number: 422
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 1:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/1 2/real_estate/tax_squeeze.mone ymag/index.htm?postversion=200 8021306

great article about how to
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Calgal
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Username: Calgal

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 10:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Help! We recently bought some homes in Detroit and renovated them. We haven't even gotten a tax bill on one, and 3 of the other 4 are over-assessed. We sent in our appeals which were immediately denied. I am in the process of sending in the appeal to the review board - this is where I really need some help fast. We are out of state and I don't know if we should try to pay someone to be our representatives with the review board or if we should just send in our written documentation. How often does the review board lower the assessment if you are physically there? Do they just flat out deny the appeal like they do on the first go round? If so, we will just send the written docs and follow up with the appeal to the tribunal. Help! I know I need to get this stuff in the mail tomorrow or I will be in big trouble with my partner (who also happens to be my husband! Thanks! Your other posts were already an eye-opener.
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E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 1595
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 11:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

RSA, I think we both put in bids for your new place late last year. It's not on the pedestrian-only street is it? If so, that's a great catch. Best of luck with it.
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Rsa
Member
Username: Rsa

Post Number: 1422
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 2:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

it is the pedestrian only portion of that street. i think it is the same house you're thinking of; ssport thought you put a bid on it too.

thanks for the kind wishes! all of the eaves have been repaired, new facia board has gone in, new roof venting is complete, brand new tear-off roof is done, window in the back is repaired, and the kitchen is gutted. gutters and downspouts are next. very soon the new kitchen is going in along with new furnace and hot water heater. move in day is fast approaching...
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Swingline
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Username: Swingline

Post Number: 1041
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, March 06, 2008 - 2:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Calgal, send in your documents but yes, you will get denied at the review board level. It doesn't make that much difference whether you are there or not. Everybody gets denied unless you have evidence of some kind of factual error. If there's enough money involved, you should probably hire an attorney for the Tax Tribunal hearing.
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 1596
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 8:54 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds good RSA. I gotta say, we are a bit jealous. You're going to have quite the prize on your hands when you're done.

BTW, one thing that always fascinated me about that neighborhood was the small apartment building on Delaware that's boarded up now. Do you have any idea what's up with that?
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Calgal
Member
Username: Calgal

Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, March 07, 2008 - 10:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Swingline, thank you so much for the info and quick reply. That saved us a few hundred dollars I would have spent to send someone there. Have you represented yourself at the tribunal? Is it that intimidating?

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