Discuss Detroit Archives - January 2008 Anyone want to name these two side-by-side Kahn's? Previous Next
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Carptrash
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Username: Carptrash

Post Number: 1576
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 4:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


two detroit buildings


Parducci and I have done it again. Got ourselves all confused. These two banks, which I call the Griswold Twins, refuse to be nailed down. Are they both by Kahn? What were their starting names and dates? They are slathered in Parcuccis but that's not enough. eeeeeek
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Kathleen
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Username: Kathleen

Post Number: 2752
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Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 4:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The building on the right, which is the corner of Griswold and Lafayette, was originally the Free Press Building (1911-1913) designed by Kahn. It was later known as the Transportation Building and the Canadian National and Grand Trunk Building. "The design of the white terra-cotta facade conformed to [Louis] Sullivan's concept of vertical continuity, even though details were derived from Gothic and Renaissance sources."
(Source: W. Hawkins Ferry. The Buildings of Detroit. p. 187)
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Chow
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Username: Chow

Post Number: 441
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Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 5:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kathleen, you are talking about the building behind the building on the right, which was torn down recently.

The building on the right is the Olde Building.
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Carptrash
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Username: Carptrash

Post Number: 1578
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Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 5:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That doesn't make sense to me. The sculpture is just not really 1913, not just because that makes CP 13 years old, young even for him, but the style of the door surround and the panels above just is not from that era.

The preceeding is a carpopinion and might not reflect reality as others know and understand it. eeeeek

PS Ferry also mentions that the old free pressbuilding was 10 stories tall. These are 5 at most, even if you count that hideous (opinion) two story addition on the left. eeeek

(Message edited by carptrash on February 09, 2008)
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Mauser765
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Username: Mauser765

Post Number: 2489
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 5:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Olde was the one torn down I believe, Im putting money on Kathleen in this horse race.

Didnt Carpy have us parse these two already ?

http://www.detroitfunk.com/200 6/09/lets_go_to_the_bank.html

http://www.detroitfunk.com/200 6/09/more_bank_details.html
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Mdoyle
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Username: Mdoyle

Post Number: 339
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Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 5:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Olde Building is definitely still there. An it is in fact the building on the right. The old Free Press building is behind the Olde Building in that photo it was torn down long ago. I believe the Olde Building was a Kahn this has been discussed before. Try the search function.
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Mauser765
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Username: Mauser765

Post Number: 2492
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 5:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://photos1.blogger.com/img /91/1627/1024/olde2.jpg

search function stinks
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Chow
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Username: Chow

Post Number: 442
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Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 5:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Olde building is indeed on the corner, used to be the Griswold First State Bank. I think it is a Kahn.

Besides you can tell by looking at the photo that it is not the building Kathleen is talking about: the facade is not terra cotta nor does it recall Sullivan.
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Chow
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Username: Chow

Post Number: 443
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 5:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey mauser, check out his update at the bottom ;)
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 6543
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Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 5:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kathleen, is speaking of the building behind the one in question. That was the Terracotta Building that was taller.

Here:


01


Carpy, I took this one the day we went though the Diehl & Diehl archives together. They knocked it down later that year I believe.

The building Kathleen refers to is the tall terracotta clad one. Carpy is talking about the two shorter ones on the corner. If you have a copy of Ferry's the Legacy of Albert Kahn, there is a photo on p. 58 (fig. 57) that shows that building is the tall one in the photo I posted.
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Mauser765
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Username: Mauser765

Post Number: 2494
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Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 5:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yer right - Dblog does qualify the ownership. Doops.
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Carptrash
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Username: Carptrash

Post Number: 1579
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 5:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Damn, Mouser:

That's some fine pictures you've linked. Makes my pictures appear as if shot with my old Kodak Brownie.

Yes, we might have tried these before, but . . ... to what effect? What are they, again? eeeek

CP referes (in what might be a newspaper clipping) to them as "Security Trust Company Building and First State Bank Building of Detroit. Architect: Albert Kahn"

Next to that is the date "1923"

(Message edited by carptrash on February 09, 2008)

(Message edited by carptrash on February 09, 2008)
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 1968
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 5:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)





From 1930s map of CBD

(Message edited by Hornwrecker on February 09, 2008)
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Chow
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Username: Chow

Post Number: 444
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Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 5:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heres the best I can do so far and without citation:

The Olde Building - 1927- Albert Kahn
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 6544
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Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 6:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok - the one on the left was the Security Trust Company Building and the one of the right was the First State Bank.

Both by Kahn. They are listed in the job list in the back of "Industrial & Commercial Buildings", 1936.

Check you e-mail.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 1969
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Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 6:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's what was there before, the McGraw Building.


McGraw Building

wsu/vmc

If you look at some of the photos of Old City Hall, you can see a bit of the bldg on the left, before that thing was added on the top of it.

(Message edited by Hornwrecker on February 09, 2008)
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 6545
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Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 6:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well the fire insurance map revisions show both buildings (tell actually) as being built in 1924.

There were banks in each half of the McGraw building in fact it looks like the First bank on the corner above. The must have demolished the McGraw building in 1923, and each built their own bank, side by side.


map
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 1970
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Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 6:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)




wsu/vmc
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Mdoyle
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Username: Mdoyle

Post Number: 341
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Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 6:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I always wondered what the top of that building looked like before the heinous addition.
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Catman_dude
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Username: Catman_dude

Post Number: 267
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 6:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That McGraw building looked like a mighty fine exquisite one. Man, they were tearing down good looking downtown buildings even back then. Did it caught on fire or the wood rotted out or what?
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 6546
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Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 7:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

More than like it was all in the name of Progress.

At least back then buildings weren't demolished for "future development".
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Mccarch
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Username: Mccarch

Post Number: 156
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 7:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that this is the first time that I've seen a mistake by Kathleen on this board.

Is nothing sacred?
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 1971
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Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 8:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another view taken during the demo of Old City Hall.




wsu/vmc
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Carptrash
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Username: Carptrash

Post Number: 1580
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 9:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll bet Kathleen was paid to take a dive. It's the only way that . . ....

eeeeeeeeek
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Rhymeswithrawk
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Username: Rhymeswithrawk

Post Number: 1122
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Saturday, February 09, 2008 - 11:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

An old postcard from my collection showing that corner. The McGraw Building is, as Hornwrecker points out, what stood on that site before the two banks. The building to the right, the terra cotta one, is the old Free Press building (before the Lafayette-Cass location) that later became the Transportation Building.
http://i215.photobucket.com/al bums/cc280/buildingsofdetroit/ Postcards/DimeFreep.jpg
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Carptrash
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Username: Carptrash

Post Number: 1584
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Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 12:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great card.

So Kahn just got the whole . . . hole, and built two buildings at the same time? A twofer, why not?
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Kathleen
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Username: Kathleen

Post Number: 2756
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Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 1:41 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just wanted to see if everyone was paying attention!!

Actually, mea culpa! But the temptation to post an answer was too great despite the fact that we were heading out for the evening. Obviously I needed more time to check through the books and my files and digest the details before posting.

Thanks to all who went to bat for me. I do appreciate it! Good night!
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Kathleen
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Username: Kathleen

Post Number: 2757
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Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 1:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

...and I'll definitely make a note of those building names because I've taken many pictures, as others have, of the sculptural details around the doorways of both buildings. They're extraordinary!!
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Carptrash
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Username: Carptrash

Post Number: 1596
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Posted on Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 3:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And I believe that they are what CP is talking about in his interview at the Smithsonian when he is inspecting carving for Kahn. I do with the AK & Assoc. would be more forthcoming with what they know.

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