 
Thegryphon
Member
Username: Thegryphon
Post Number: 37
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 2:27 pm: |    |
I recently talked with a friend of mine, and he remarked on how disappointed he was w/ the D's downtown area. He had recently visited Pittsburgh for business and said he felt a whole lot safer there compared to walking our streets. I always considered Pittsburgh in a similar situation as the D with urban decay, but perhaps the City of Steel has rebounded? What kind of pgm. did Pittsburgh implement & why wouldn't it work in the D? |
Mike
Member
Username: Mike
Post Number: 1242
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 2:28 pm: | |
metro-pittsburgh actually likes pittsburgh and has pride in pittsburgh and suppors pittsburgh.
metro-detroit hates detroit, undermines is whenever possible and does not support the city. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1551
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 2:34 pm: | |
Yeah, Pittsburgh citizens didn't let half of their skyscrapers get demolished, allow weeds to go in their sidewalks, or allow all of their urban energy to wash away and de-centralize.
Not to mention, they have a better government.
Trust me though, if it wasn't for the riot, we would be better off (but not by far, more like Philadelphia). |
Greatlakes
Member
Username: Greatlakes
Post Number: 142
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 2:41 pm: | |
"metro-detroit hates detroit, undermines is whenever possible and does not support the city."
You forget that Detroit also hates Metro Detroit and is always worried about "them" (i.e. non-blacks) and the black people supposedly working for "them" coming back to take over the city.
(Message edited by GreatLakes on February 10, 2008) |
Mrnittany
Member
Username: Mrnittany
Post Number: 13
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 3:14 pm: | |
I went to Penn State for my undergrad and encountered a lot of Pittsburghers at school, while also visiting the city numerous times both during school and afterwards.
That said, Mike hit the nail exactly on the head: Pittsburghers have a TREMENDOUS pride in their city, whereas Detroiters do not. The cities are a lot alike in so many ways, but I 100% agree that the simple difference in attitude is what makes Pittsburgh one of "America's hidden gems", a city that has rebounded quite strongly from their struggles in the '70s and '80s, whereas Detroit seemingly stagnates.
(Message edited by Mrnittany on February 10, 2008) |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2655
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 3:38 pm: | |
I spent some time in downtown Pittsburgh a couple of years ago. There are more occupied skyscrapers, but it's pretty dead there after 5pm... not unlike Detroit.
As for your friend's perception about Pittsburgh being safer than downtown Detroit... I'm leaning towards his personal bias. I would consider Detroit and Pittsburgh in the same league in terms of bustling downtown area, except that Detroit's has more potential to be greater than it is currently. |
Hans57
Member
Username: Hans57
Post Number: 262
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 4:22 pm: | |
The riot is not half of our problem, that was just a by-product of years of pent up frustration. Racism and socio-economic discrimination were and are too prevalent in this region. People of higher class had been leaving the city for 20 years before that. |
Wood
Member
Username: Wood
Post Number: 17
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 4:23 pm: | |
pittsburgh has always had geography on its side. |
D_mcc
Member
Username: D_mcc
Post Number: 213
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 4:26 pm: | |
Right, because Detroit has horrible Geography |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6285
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 4:31 pm: | |
Mike... I suggest you stand in front of the next performance at the Fox, Opera House, Music Hall, the Filmore, Orchestra Hall, Fisher, all 3 casinos, JLA, Comerica Park and Ford Field... and ask all the suburbanites why they are here if they hate Detroit so!
And while you're at it... keep a tally of Detroit versus non-Detroit residents at these venues.
Something tells me you will be surprised by the results, both in the numbers of suburbanites, and their support for the city. |
Jb3
Member
Username: Jb3
Post Number: 262
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 4:34 pm: | |
Because Pittsburg's downtown is limited to a geographic area between two mountains and between two rivers. Supply and demand equations probably come into play here. Not to mention that Pittsburgh has three major universities located centrally its downtown area, not to mention that pittsburgh has amazing public transportation. Of course public attitude is better when people have to communicate with each other (i.e. a public transportation system). Here in Detroit we drive alone in our cars and hate everyone around us for doing the same thing. |
Living_in_the_d
Member
Username: Living_in_the_d
Post Number: 45
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 4:52 pm: | |
Yeah, I"m a lifelong Detroiter, and My wife and her family are from Pittsburgh, We believe both cities and the People in them, are equally beautiful. |
Wood
Member
Username: Wood
Post Number: 18
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 4:54 pm: | |
detroit doesn't have "horrible geography," but unlike pittsburgh, massive sprawl and suburban flight haven't been mitigated by (1) mountains that surround the city; and (2) the fact that many of the small communities along the rivers that would have been prime suburbs of pittsburgh were already steel-mill towns that suffered just as much as the city of pittsburgh itself when that industry was hit hard.
hideous places like cranberry do exist and look exactly like novi or farmington hills, but one of the things I am always surprised about whenever I visit pittsburgh (4-5 times a year) is that working class whites and blacks still actually live in the same neighborhoods there together. I guess the eastern europeans and rednecks who moved there from west virginia just ended up being more tolerant than our eastern european and redneck forebears in detroit.
(Message edited by wood on February 10, 2008) |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 4423
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 6:53 pm: | |
Pittsburgh's economy and downtown are has rebounded a lot more, and their downtown has a critical mass of workers and retail. At night and on weekends Detroit might actually be a bit more active, but at most times of the day, Pittsburgh is extremely vibrant downtown.
Pittsburgh is differentiated by its downtown density. It has held up better than ours. Likewise for Pitt's midtown around the University of Pittsburgh-- the Oakland borough. Beautiful, dense, and active: what our cultural center needs to become like. Not that we don't have some quantities of those three things in our midtown, but they have more. The key, of course, is getting a higher percentage of WSU students to live near campus. |
Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Member
Username: Onlypeoplewhohatethemselveshateme
Post Number: 96
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 6:55 pm: | |
i actually was in pittsburgh this past summer and was disgusted by how much nicer their downtown was. Prime example: They have a Saks.
I was also able to walk through the downtown for at least a mile, well after midnight, without any fear of being mugged. There is not a single place in Detroit where I would feel comfortable doing that for that distance at that time of night.
The fact that Pittsburgh's downtown is nicer than Detroit makes me ill. |
Thegryphon
Member
Username: Thegryphon
Post Number: 39
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 7:32 pm: | |
So if we had a massive mountain chain surronding the city proper, the D would be a dense city? I find that hard to believe. RE the pride issue, I think Detroiters have tremendous pride, but many are afraid to show it, the gov. is a whole nother ball of wax --but a prideful gov. enacts an equal reaction from the greater area. Pittsburgh has 3 universities? Imagine MSU, UOM & Eastern's campuses all in the CBD! What stimulus would attract secondary campuses (eg UOM Flint)? |
Jasoncw
Member
Username: Jasoncw
Post Number: 487
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 7:41 pm: | |
Detroit's flat land encourages sprawl. Not only that, but O.C. has all of those tiny lakes, making it perfect for wealthy private lakes.
But what if that area was a mountain instead? It would be more expensive to build there, and more people would stay in their existing wealthy neighborhoods. |
French777
Member
Username: French777
Post Number: 334
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 7:52 pm: | |
Does Pittsburg have as much History as Detroit?
Just give it time and Detroit will rise from the ashes |
Crystal
Member
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 101
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 8:05 pm: | |
I like the comparison between Pittsburgh and Detroit. Isn't that the same Pittsburgh whose Allegheny River was once so polluted that it caught on fire?
We vacationed there about ten years ago (our son wanted to visit Mister Rogers) and enjoyed the downtown very much.
Pittsburgh also has an extensive bike-hike network. That and the excellent public transportation made sightseeing and generally getting around fun and uncomplicated. |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 4424
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 8:06 pm: | |
Jasoncw is right. The landforms make a difference. I wish Detroit did have mountains around it, and if we did, it's a fact we'd be denser. If Detroit's economic history went the exact same way, and we hit 1.8 mil in the 1940s, then surely the planning prior to this, and all the building activity 1900-1940, would have been in a much denser manner.
French, Pittsburgh has an interesting history, but not as deep as Detroit's, nor as intricate in the 20th century.
I'm not sure how much safer Pitt is then downtown Detroit. This might be getting overblown on this thread. But it is safe, and a very interesting place. |
401don
Member
Username: 401don
Post Number: 261
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 8:12 pm: | |
When I visited Pittsburgh in 06 for a weekend Tiger series I was shocked at how vibrant the downtown was. I had heard Pittsburgh described as a decaying rustbelt city similar, or so I thought, to Detroit. There is plenty of retail, although the rumored dept. store closings had people on edge. There is also a growing highrise density along the river. More importantly, the "suburbs" were 2 miles away in any direction. Pittsburgh has done a tremendous job diversifying its economy a few short years after the decline of the steel industry. |
Crystal
Member
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 102
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 8:22 pm: | |
I forgot to mention, our car was stolen on that vacation, in one of the boroughs, ironically in the same year that Detroit was ranked #1 in car thefts.
Pittsburgh (being farther east) was settled before Detroit and has "more" history if you add up facts and figures. I would not say that one city's history is better (or any other relative term) than another's.
Reminds me of The Henry Ford's slogan, "America's Greatest History Attraction". I keep meaning to write them a letter that they are missing the point and value of history when they seem to value their collection more than another. |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1553
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 8:29 pm: | |
"America's Greatest History Attraction"
Well you and millions of other Americans drive an automobile, no?
All of these suburban cookie cutters and box stores wouldn't exist without the automobile, no? |
Crystal
Member
Username: Crystal
Post Number: 103
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 8:37 pm: | |
I don't think the slogan is meant to glamorize automotive history. I think the slogan is meant to apply to the entire museum/village collection, including Lincoln's chair, the Kennedy limousine, Logan County Courthouse, Edison artifacts, and many other exhibits.
Don't get me wrong, we have been members for many years. We visit often and take guests there several times a year. It is one of my favorite museums. But the greatest? |
Jasoncw
Member
Username: Jasoncw
Post Number: 488
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 8:46 pm: | |
Detroit is actually the older city. Our city was founded in 1701 when the French built a fort here, while their first settlement was in 1717 and they built their first fort there in 1753.
From wikipedia, it seems like more was happening in Detroit early on. |
Greatlakes
Member
Username: Greatlakes
Post Number: 143
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 8:50 pm: | |
There are hints of the "vs. Chicago" thread popping up here... |
Jasoncw
Member
Username: Jasoncw
Post Number: 489
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 8:57 pm: | |
We don't need to bother with that discussion, everyone knows that Detroit is much better than Chicago. Our downtown and neighborhoods are much more vibrant, and our skyscraper construction is unrivaled by most cities.  |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5108
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 9:08 pm: | |
quote:I like the comparison between Pittsburgh and Detroit. Isn't that the same Pittsburgh whose Allegheny River was once so polluted that it caught on fire? So, one of Pittsburgh's three rivers burned. But Detroit burnt to the ground in 1805, when a baker somehow set fire to the whole city. Then, on May 9, 1848, a fire on the wharf downtown totally destroyed 107 buildings. And to add insult to injury, many Detroiters burn their own places for the insurance and other buildings just for the excitement.
I'd rather take a river fire in Pittsburgh over all those in Detroit... |
Mayor_sekou
Member
Username: Mayor_sekou
Post Number: 1883
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 9:17 pm: | |
I have a feeling you would take anything, even shit from Satan, instead of Detroit so that doesn't surprise me. |
Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 1678
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 9:19 pm: | |
I'm not aware of any rivers in Pittsburgh catching fire. I believe you're thinking of the Cuyahoga River in Cleveland. |