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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 11583
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 12:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS!

I think it is a wonder that gasoline isn't over five buck per NOW.

IF y'all would budget for THAT now, and save the balance every time you fill up...you'd go a l-o-n-g way towards handling the prices when they DO get to where they're supposed to be.

That way, every day you pay LESS than five bucks per gallon, you will be happy that our petroleum overlords have extended the grace to afford their precious product that we've ALL grown addicted to.


Each time you turn the key to your car, or switch ON the thermostat for heat...you should thank what- or whom-ever you thank for the ability to enjoy the extreme comforts that we have in this country.


Cheers!
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 2946
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Hybrid SUVs...like the Gm Hybrid that gets a whopping 18MPG...5 miles more than what it normally gets. And people buy into it. Ridiculous



That's nearly a 40% fuel reduction. You'd need to take a 30MPG car to 42MPG to get the same percentage of savings. At 15,000 Miles a year the SUV would save 320 gallon of gas with the improvement, the small car would only save 142 gallons of gas.

Americans want large vehicles. It makes more sense trying to give them the vehicles they want to drive rather than trying to jam everyone into an econobox.
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Umbound
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Username: Umbound

Post Number: 22
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Listen to 3rdworldcity he is my boy now lol:-)
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Gotdetroit
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Username: Gotdetroit

Post Number: 120
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 12:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's funny, you're (we're) not only getting gouged at the pump, but those fuel costs are also getting passed on to us in the form of higher cost on goods.

So, in the end, we're going to be paying a lot more than just higher gas prices.

But it's supply and demand. NOTHING artificial about that...Oh, and didn't Exxon (as well as others) have another record breaking year of profits? I think they did.
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Sirrealone
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Username: Sirrealone

Post Number: 78
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Because that's exactly the game they play because it's 'only' a couple of pennies. Well, those pennies add up.

Look at it this way, the difference is often 1-2% or more. A few cents doesn't seem like a big deal, but doesn't a 2% difference sound worse. If all of a sudden everything in your life cost 2% more but your income didn't go up, you'd certainly notice the difference.

So, yes, it may just be a few pennies here and there but it does add up. It adds up to extra profits for people that have already made staggering profits. Sorry, I'd rather keep my money.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 11587
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 12:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Sorry, I'd rather keep my money.



Then design your life to not be as dependent on their substance!

Make the changes necessary to reduce your petrol consumption.

Sacrifice NOW so you won't continue to be slaves to them.

Cheers!
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Umbound
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Username: Umbound

Post Number: 23
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 12:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That just sounds being cheap to me. so every time gas goes up you want a raise in your paycheck is what your saying. lol this is funny.
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Sirrealone
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Username: Sirrealone

Post Number: 82
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 12:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I never said I expected someone to subsidize my paycheck every time gas prices go up. Where did you read that?

But, yes, it is MY paycheck and I don't see a need to pay more for something that I can get at a lower price somewhere else. it's not better gas, it's the same thing. So, if you want to call that cheap, go ahead. I've been called worse. I just call it being responsible. And I do that PRECISELY BECAUSE I know that nobody is going to pay me more every time gas goes up.

And, Gannon, I agree with you. I've definitely done many things to curb my consumption. I drive a small car (always have, even when gas was a buck a gallon), combine trips when possible, commute to offices closest to my home to save consumption. I agree everybody has to do their part.
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 2308
Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Yes, the idea that -- with a president, vice president and secretary of state having been in the oil business -- somehow the government is letting oil companies gouge the American public is ridiculous. The only reason gas prices have risen and oil companies' profits have gone up dramatically since the Bush administration took office is, um, because, um, you know, they, er, they've been working so hard and, um, you know ..."

The reason that profits go up is because people continue to buy gas regardless of the price! If you don't like the price, then don't buy it--yes it is that simple!
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Gotdetroit
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Username: Gotdetroit

Post Number: 121
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 2:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"The reason that profits go up is because people continue to buy gas regardless of the price! If you don't like the price, then don't buy it--yes it is that simple!"

Hardly. Your point is simple, but unfair. Not everyone can rearrange their lives so they use less gas. Especially in this backwards region (in terms of mass-transit). Not everyone can quit their current job just so they can get one closer to home. Not everyone can up and move so they can be closer to a job/shopping/ect.

Sure, it is simple when you boil it down to a slogan, but in reality, not so much.

On the "it's just a couple of cents, man, quit being cheap" argument. Yeah, it's just $0.02 this week, and $0.02 the week before, and $0.02 the week before....and on and on until that $0.02 becomes, in reality, $1.00 or so more for a gallon...or, an extra $10-20 per fill up every week.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 4432
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 2:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't like the prices? Buy a car that consumes less fuel.

If enough of us did that, prices would not rise as fast, and we'd collectively do the environment a favor. Everyone would be better off.

But people don't like that idea...
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Clark1mt
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Username: Clark1mt

Post Number: 132
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 3:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sirrealone: Some stations offer a discount for customer loyalty, for using their credit card to make the purchase, things like that. Some people aren't paying what's on the sign.
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Detroitnerd
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Username: Detroitnerd

Post Number: 1877
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't like the argument? Turn it into an argument about something else.

If enough of us did that, prices would not matter, because we'd collectively be talking about what cars we drove. Nobody would be better off.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 6296
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 3:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

...and then there's the reason that the owner of my neighborhood BP Station told me when I asked why BP gas was 20 cents higher at his station in St. Clair Shores than it was at a Dearborn BP Station...

"I just follow the price of the Speedway Station across the street".
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Sirrealone
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Username: Sirrealone

Post Number: 86
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 5:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My point exactly. Don't believe station owners aren't making money off gas. Some might not, but I think plenty do just fine on their gasoline sales.
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Mrnittany
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Username: Mrnittany

Post Number: 14
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 7:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Last week, the government (they release weekly reports on US oil and gas inventories, imports, etcetra) reported US unleaded gas inventories reached a FOURTEEN-YEAR high. National supplies have now increased THIRTEEN CONSECUTIVE WEEKS. Weekly national gasoline usage held steady in January 2008 vs. January 2007.

Based on that, if we are to believe the "law of supply and demand", prices should NOT be near record highs ... considering supply is high and demand is (considering usage held steady in the same month year vs year) relatively weak.

But there's a terrible disconnect anymore between the realities of the gas market, and the actual price, due to the increased number of futures traders (especially over the last 5 years) who trade MUCH more based upon speculation. SOMEbody is getting richer. It isn't the consumer paying at the pump.
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 4530
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 7:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a simple price chart webpage where you can compare national, Michigan and Detroit gas prices.
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Bigb23
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Username: Bigb23

Post Number: 455
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 7:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Didn't this all happen within the past ten years or so ?

"But there's a terrible disconnect anymore between the realities of the gas market, and the actual price, due to the increased number of futures traders (especially over the last 5 years) who trade MUCH more based upon speculation. SOMEbody is getting richer. It isn't the consumer paying at the pump"

$20-40 Billion in profit per QUARTER?.
Lead us to the slaughter.
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 1010
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 9:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting discussion on this topic, one of several I've seen here on the same topic during the past 3 or 4 years.

There have been several very knowlegable posts here, and many that evidence a major lack of understanding about how the petroleum industry operates. The latter situation is not unusual. It's a very misunderstood industry. I'm in the business. I spend 2 or 3 hours every day reading the trade papers, studying government statistics (ours and OPEC's), and checking crude prices hourly, constantly checking the online editions of the NYT and WSJ to seek explanations about price spikes etc. And still, I usually have a lot of questions at the end of the day as to what the hell is going on.

Last year I produced a little over 150,000 barrels of WTI (West TX Intermediate) crude oil, the "benchmark" quality crude which is the worldwide standard (based on the oil's specific gravity and a couple of other factors.) I also produced over 1,000,000 gallons of propane "stripped" from natural gas which for years we vented into the atmosphere because there was no market for it. Our costs have escalated over the last few years. Our taxes have increased as well. We use about $85,000 of electricity a month, twice the rate three years ago. Are we still very profitable? Hell yes. Will we be 2 years from now? Who knows?

We have absolutely NO control over the price we are paid for the oil we produce. The price is set by the pipeline company to which we sell our oil; it's "posted" every day, and changes every day. The pipeline pays based on the daily closing price of WTI on the NYMEX (N.Y. Merchantile Exchange). The prices there are based on outcry and thousands of contract are bought and sold daily. Frequently, the market is volatile, and prices change by the second. Prices are influenced greatly by minute-by-minute breaking news which can conceivably be deemed to influence the exploration for, production, transportation and refining of crude oil around the world.

Is the market manipulated? Of course it is. The market long ago ceased to be influenced by the major oil companies, which themselves have little or no control over pricing. Government owned and controlled oil companies, primarily by the OPEC countries and Russia, manipulate the price by adjusting their output. Saudi has consistently for years done the bidding of the U.S. by increasing its production to keep the crude prices down, frequently incurring the wrath of the other OPEC countries. (Their - Saudi's and the other OPEC countries' influence has been minimized the last 3 or 4 years because every country is producing flat out to satisfy worldwide demand; there's been no excess capacity by which to manipulate prices.) BTW, when OPEC was founded their policies were based on the policies of the Texas Railroad Commission, which still regulates oil and gas production in TX.

The oil business is one of the most capital intensive businesses there is. There is huge risk in everything we do - or don't do. It's not a business for coupon clippers.

And by the way, we didn't get much - or any - sympathy when in 1998 crude was selling for $9.25 a barrel. And we were losing money but still drilling wells in the hope that things would turn around.

Pres. Bush in his last inaugural address said something that nobody disagrees with: "The United States is addicted to oil." But neither he nor the Congress has done one meaningful thing to alleviate the problem. Alternative fuels? Bullshit. The science is now showing that corn based ethanol and ethanol from other sources take much more energy to produce that they can deliver. Do the idiotic policies of this government help guys like me? Hell yes. Do I want to see more offshore drilling and drilling in ANWR? Hell no. The more oil coming into the country from any source will drive down the price I'm paid. People vote their pocketbooks. You do and I do. Oh well.

Are the oil companies making HUGE profits these days? NO. The numbers are large but the scope of their businesses are larger by far than most other businesses in the world. Their profits are not much more as a percentage of revenues than other major manufacturing businesses. And, their basic risks, not to mention the geopolitical risks of operating in countries basically hostile to the U.S., which are in many cases very unstable, justify whatever profits they can make. Do I own any oil company stocks? Hell no.

Gasoline prices in the U.S. are substantially lower than those in Europe, Japan, and most other industrialized nations. The studies I've seen predict U.S. consumers will not alter their gasoline consumption until prices hit $5 a gallon.

We have long way to go.

(Message edited by 3rdworldcity on February 12, 2008)
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Bibs
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Username: Bibs

Post Number: 720
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, February 12, 2008 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

3rdWorldCity - Awesome post.

I would also like to add that weakness of the US dollar has also contributed to the increase in price for crude oil. OPEC counties have demanded US currency for payment. As the US dollar has weakened significantly, they have raised the price of crude to offset the lose. Now, OPEC is talking about transition to the EURO which is very strong right now. This means the value of our currency could fall even further and we could be facing even higher prices for gasoline in the future and our buying power will be diminished? The root of this problem in my opinion is the national dept to finance the war and China. China is financing our dept with money generate from goods we purchase at local stores! We need a monetary policy that strengthens the US dollar! If not then I think that we are going to experience some serious inflation or stagflation. Pay close attention to the election! Ignore the rhetoric and focus on their economic agenda. Please vote!
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Sirrealone
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Username: Sirrealone

Post Number: 87
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 9:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Their (oil companies) profits are not much more as a percentage of revenues than other major manufacturing businesses.


OK, so profit as a percentage of revenue is in line with other manufacturing. I'll agree with that. But, I still think it's a problem. Why? Because of the law of diminishing returns.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D iminishing_returns

The basic premise is that as production increases, the margin of profit should be lower and lower with each additional unit produced. That leads to your 'breaking point' where additional production doesn't make sense.

I'm not sure of the profit margins, but let's pretend they're 10%. So back when oil was $20 a barrel, say the oil companies are making $2 per barrel profit. Not too bad.

But, now as prices have increased, their profit margin has stayed the same. So on a $90 barrel of oil, they're making $9.

Normally, when prices rapidly increase, the profit margin diminishes so that the costs are absorbed by both the buyer and seller. So, in most manufacutring instances, the profit margin would fall to say, 5%, or $4.50 per barrel. Still a higher profit per barrel ($4.50 versus $2) than when the price was lower, but this would mean a lower cost, so both the buyer and seller would absorb the higher prices. Not in this case. The buyer is absorbing all of it.

So, by this logic, oil companies want the prices to increase. They, in fact, welcome it and probably push for it since they know they can just mark up the price by their usual percentage and laugh all the way to the bank.

3rdworldcity, I agree with everything you said but for the innocence of the oil companies in all this.

Also, I know that prices are lower than they are in other countries. I think the issue is how rapidly prices have increased compared to inflation. And it's pushed up the prices of other things (food, for example) higher as well. The cost of living increases people are getting don't cover the true increase in the cost of living when these prices are increasing 10-25% per year. So, it IS a problem to me when the burden of higher cost is being placed 100% on the shoulders of the citizens, while the oil companies protect their margins.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 11606
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 9:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you 3rdworldcity, for that awesome inside explanation.

I will indeed start following my own advice and calculate every tank as IF it were $5 per gallon, and will stuff that cash somewhere I can find it when the prices go up...I'm going to force myself to save, like I've forced myself to fucking WALK everywhere downtown!


NO petroleum burned for recreation!
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 1011
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 11:31 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bibs: You have made a critically important point. My guess is the reason that the OPEC countries have not demanded payment in Euros is because to do so would totally wreck the economy of the U.S. and many other countries. (The cost of a bbl. of oil in the U.S. would escalate by approximately 50% based n the price of the U.S. dollar; I'd get very, very rich because oil is fungible and we're paid based on the world price. (My costs would go up but not enough to hurt that much.) They have multi-billion dollar investments in the U.S. and are in a sense trapped here.

I'll tell you something else that you'll find interesting. First, I produce oil in North TX. My production is from old, worn out oil fields long ago abandoned by the major oil companies for much greener pastures. I have one well that's 70 years old and still produces about 6 or 7 bbls of oil a day. Very profitable still. We produce the oil we do as a result of "secondary production," water flooding. I produce about 22,000 bbls of fluid a day; from that we extract about 500 bbls of oil, leaving 21,500 bbls of saltwater/brine (from a 500,000,000 year old inland ocean.) That's almost a million gallons of saltwater a day, which is injected back into the oil-bearing rock formation and pushes more oil to the producing wells. It's a 24/7 cycle. We're called "stripper well" operators because we're producing the remaining dregs of oil left down there. Not very romantic. Yet, there are buyers coming out of the woodwork, offering to purchase any leases they can find. They're offering at least 30% more than the leases are arguably worth. The buyers are all from Indonesia, Nigeria, and China. Why? The answer is because they are drowning in U.S. dollars, which they consider Monopoly money, but not quite yet worthless. I'm negotiating with a couple right now. (They're also convinced that crude prices will continue to rise. I don't.)

The U.S. dollar has been in the toilet before. In the mid-80's an acquaintence of mine, Marty Rom (RIP), wrote a book titled "Nothing Can Replace The U.S. dollar....And It Almost Has." That's when the Japanese were flooding in here buying every piece of real estate they could lay their hands on and dumping as many billions of their "worthless" bucks as they could. The dollar rebounded and they lost their asses. This time it's different and I believe the country will end up a second tier power in 20 years. We are doomed.

Sierraleone: I was an econ minor in college, and early on observed that there were few, if any, rich economists (except for the guys who were churning out the college econ textbooks.) I didn't learn a lot about the subject but have subsequently observed, however, is that the world doesn't pay much attention to most economic theories. (What would you reach if you laid all the economists in the world end-to-end? No one knows except that they wouldn't reach a conclusion.) You've accurately laid out the textbook theories (as I recall them) as to how profit margins should decrease under the facts you laid out. However, that's not how it works when there is tremendous demand and inadequate supply. Neither the oil companies nor any other businesses are going to voluntary decrease their margins because Samuelson says he thinks they should.

Actually, major oil companies MUST keep their margins high in order to cope with the geopolitical risks in the areas in which they operate. For example, Shell and Exxon-Mobil have invested about $35 BILLION in the Kamchatka Peninsula in Russia. They had "ironclad" written contracts regarding revenue sharing with the government and their Russian oil company "partners." However, when the projects were completed, the government came in and re-wrote the deal, divesting or companies from about 40% of their interests in the deal. (This is a nat gas deal). Look what's happening in Venezuela and elsewhere. We want to heat or homes in Winter? We better be damn glad the majors make the money they do.

Marathon Oil Co. is a third tier oil company. Yet, it's spending over $2 billion to expand and revamp its 245,000 bbl a day refinery in LA. Why? It's increasing its ability to produce diesel fuel, which it predicts will provide 50% of our energy requirements in 2020. It's also expanding its Detroit refinery at a cost of over over a billion dollars (it claims.) It's doing that to expand in order to be able to refine "heavy crude" which it's importing from Canada. We idiot taxpayers are subsidizing the deal to the extent of about $100,000,000 in tax breaks. Why do I say we're so dumb? Because Marathon had already announced it was going to expand the refinery in order to save about $2 billion dollars by not building a new refinery in Canada. (Last year Marathon bought a small Canadian oil company with a 20% interest in about 400,000 acres of Canadians oil sands production. It paid US$6.5 billion for the company and assumed US$700,000,000 of debt. It stated at the time (in Canada) that it would move the oil to Detroit at a savings of 2/3 over the cost of building a Canadian refinery. All that extra oil will go right into Detroiter's gas tanks. If it weren't for Canadian oil imports the country would really be in deep doo doo.

Gannon: Keep fighting the good fight. I just hope for my sake too many more folks don't have the same common sense and discipline.
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Bibs
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Username: Bibs

Post Number: 721
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 11:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I too have a minor in economics.

The price of gasoline is not very elastic. Most people are too afraid to take mass transit or let someone else do the driving because they are control freaks. Also, mass transit is not available to everyone and we are geographically dispersed even in urban areas. So I think we are going to keep on consuming oil.

Bush announces that we are going to reduce our consumption of oil by 20% in X number of year. That is the biggest joke in the world. Our population took about 35 years or so to double. So how are you going to reduce your oil consumption by 20% when your population is doubling ab out ever 30 years? US pop is at 300 million. In 35 years, it will be 600 million! Maybe as a percentage of population! 3worldcity is not going to run out customer any time soon!
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 1018
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 11:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bush's typical political pandering as you point out. The guy went broke in the oil business in west Texas (easy to do) and it appears often that he didn't learn a thing. His national energy "policy" is the same one regurgitated president after president.
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Mr_onion
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Username: Mr_onion

Post Number: 223
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, February 15, 2008 - 11:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mr Chavez has been Threatening to CUT OFF the US from his Oil from Venezuela, who provides 10 per cent of our Resources of Fuel, just the threat probably had an impact on the rising of Prices. He is an Evil Man who must be Squashed.
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Otter
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Username: Otter

Post Number: 16
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Saturday, February 16, 2008 - 11:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Something that Chavez says once shouldn't necessarily be taken seriously. If he keeps coming back to the same idea and developing it, then it might be worh taking seriously. The government has actually implemented some oddball things like limiting the choices of names for new babies, but there are many more, like compulsory cooperative child-rearing, that have remained just talk.

Venezuela cannot afford to stop selling oil to the US because the massive public spending that has accounted for the country latest round of quasi-prosperity is fueled (so to speak) by the high price of oil.

The US is about 85% of the country's market for sales and even if it wanted to it couldn't just start selling it all to, say, China overnight.
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One_shot
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Username: One_shot

Post Number: 353
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 12:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is sickening. Gas station owners are not responsible for $3 a gallon gas, but they are responsible for the daily .20 cent variable. If they are only making .02-.05 cents a gallon how can they raise and lower .20? When the station owner from Bloomfield buys his supply of gas does it cost more than the guy buying from Detroit? It is all originates from the same place at a price I doubt fluctuates as much as we see on station signs. As far as paying higher taxes and wages the taxes part may be true, but when you have uncles, cousins, dads and brothers running it do you need to pay them higher for coming to work in an affluent neighborhood??? When Kroger buys milk from the supplier do they instruct stores in Bloomfield to charge .20 cents more than in Warren due to local wealth? Gas is something every human in America relies on and unfortunately it is under the control of lying, unethical people. And one more thing, you can buy that hybrid...but the company that deliver's your soy burger and organic milk is gonna still be buying that expensive gas and passing the cost onto you. See there's no way around it other than becoming Amish!
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3rdworldcity
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Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 1029
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 12:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One_shot: Great idea. Are you going to live in PA or IN?
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 4444
Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Sunday, February 17, 2008 - 12:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bibs is right on with bringing up elasticity. The federal government could cut income taxes in half, put a massive consumption tax on gasoline, and probably still make the same revenue. Of course, people MIGHT start driving less in that scenario.

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