  D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 227 Registered: 12-2007 |
http://www.inhabitat.com/2008/ 02/13/interstate-traveler-hydr ogen-super-highway-world%e2%80 %99s-first-multi-utility-high- speed-rail-system/#more-8072 | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 5114 Registered: 10-2003 |
Oh Lord, it's back! | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 2681 Registered: 04-2006 |
This damn thing better get built now. DetroitYES! is mandating it. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 5115 Registered: 10-2003 |
And yet it's still been 2 years since their site was updated. http://www.interstatetraveler. us/news.htm | ||
Eboyer Member Username: Eboyer Post Number: 74 Registered: 01-2007 |
There's a thread on this already. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1100 Registered: 12-2006 |
Mr. Sutton first proposed this in 1995, so I'm not sure why it's being referred to as a "new project". I think this is a concept and nothing more than a concept. There is no PRT system in operation anywhere on Earth, by the way, and transportation experts do not even agree it is physically possible. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 5116 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'm not sure what prompted this article in Inhabit. There doesn't appear to be anything to indicate something has changed or moved forward. | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 228 Registered: 12-2007 |
I just post 'em...I didn't post any editorial comment on my thoughts on the article...just the article itself. | ||
Detroitpetanque Member Username: Detroitpetanque Post Number: 50 Registered: 09-2006 |
It's gotta work! There's a 6 minute ANIMATION on the 2 year old website to prove it! Of course, there's also animations of Harry Potter flying on a broomstick too. Maybe Michigan can build those too! | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 5117 Registered: 10-2003 |
It's all your fault, D_mcc. Everything. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1101 Registered: 12-2006 |
The flying broomsticks reminded me of something. In the early days of the internet, when people were trying to decide how to move data, the system for communicating was a document called an RFC (request for comments). Most of them were serious, very technical and very dense. Every April 1, somebody would put up a fake RFC, which was assigned a real number and tracked like the others, and my favorite was when someone proposed a data transport method called CPP which stood for "Carrier Pigeon Protocol", which was assigned the tracking number RFC 1149. The first few paragraphs give the tone: "Network Working Group D. Waitzman Request for Comments: 1149 BBN STC 1 April 1990 A Standard for the Transmission of IP Datagrams on Avian Carriers Status of this Memo This memo describes an experimental method for the encapsulation of IP datagrams in avian carriers. This specification is primarily useful in Metropolitan Area Networks. This is an experimental, not recommended standard. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. Overview and Rational[sic] Avian carriers can provide high delay, low throughput, and low altitude service. The connection topology is limited to a single point-to-point path for each carrier, used with standard carriers, but many carriers can be used without significant interference with each other, outside of early spring. This is because of the 3D ether space available to the carriers, in contrast to the 1D ether used by IEEE802.3. The carriers have an intrinsic collision avoidance system, which increases availability. Unlike some network technologies, such as packet radio, communication is not limited to line-of-sight distance. Connection oriented service is available in some cities, usually based upon a central hub topology." If that works, then this might work too  | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 230 Registered: 12-2007 |
^^^Damn...Looks like its time to bust out my 'ole hangin' rope... | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1893 Registered: 07-2004 |
I think Detroit attracts these sorts of unrealistic projects because our car-oriented developers get to snicker and laugh as well-meaning transit advocates get suckered into supporting these things. How many proposed transit plans for metro Detroit involve extremely rare experimental magnetic levitation trains, unworkable PRT systems, bizarre BRT plans, and theme-park-style monorails? Now, there is one mode of transit that is successfully driving investment in urban areas and reducing pollution and traffic congestion. It's being implemented in cities across the United States with great success. It was a very successful mode of transportation in Detroit for a half-century. It's called LIGHT RAIL, or streetcars. Jesus, with more light rail being laid down every year, the technology is better tested, the know-how is better transferable, the rolling stock and systems are better standardized, and the economies of scale should reduce the overall cost. Governments are more likely to trust light rail projects enough to subsidize them. The city was set up to accommodate them. Many older people even remember when they were on all major thoroughfares. So, what better to do than to sidestep practical, efficient, standardized light rail, instead shooting for pie-in-the-sky, untested systems that will be expensive to maintain and impractical to implement. This will start transit advocates arguing with each other, and we'll therefore be able to postpone taking any action for another decade! | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1102 Registered: 12-2006 |
Nobody's shooting for this, 'nerd. Somebody is just pointing out a recent repost of a 13 year old web page, and it is nothing more than a web page. I doubt the poster knew it was something old being reposted. | ||
Detroitpetanque Member Username: Detroitpetanque Post Number: 51 Registered: 09-2006 |
The entire concept is ridiculous and the folks who drew up those pictures should be flogged! Wouldn't it be more efficient to build the system for passengers and some freight only, and not also for each of the passenger's automobiles as well? Just think of the space/weight/time delay for passengers loading their cars into the "capsules" If people want to travel/commute from 1 city to another they don't need a car - that's the whole purpose of a commuter train. OH, and while we're talking about virtual businesses, I also heard that Michigan is also in charge of building "Star Trek"-style teleporters too... with teleportation pads large enough for a Hummer to drive atop and be teleported. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1895 Registered: 07-2004 |
Zat so, prof? Fair enough. Anyway, I stand by my suspicious, cynical remarks. | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 306 Registered: 03-2005 |
https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/5/128354.html?1203013878 | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1676 Registered: 11-2003 |
Is this kinda like the cable cars going over the Detroit River? Never going to happen. | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 232 Registered: 12-2007 |
Nerd...to Say Maglevs are rare is an uneducated statement. Granted they aren't common, but they are far from experimental these days. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1898 Registered: 07-2004 |
Good point, D_mcc. But I still think of them as experiments. Like the British one. That one, technically, wasn't experimental. It ran for 11 years and then it was discontinued. Doesn't that imply that it was a sort of learning process? They are running one in China. But that one has even been called a "demonstration line" -- plus it goes to the airport, which sorta implies "experimental" to me, since airports are fertile grounds for emerging transit systems. It was a poor word choice, but my point isn't too far off, I think. From early feasibility studies through to working out kinks in the system, these ambitious projects maybe are being implemented, but are still largely learning as they go, aren't they? Besides, the fastest maglev train in the world is pretty fast, but only a little bit faster than a TGV. If that's so, just how mature is this technology anyway? | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1104 Registered: 12-2006 |
Maglev is a proven technology and is used in some mass transit systems. But the article refers to a variety of something called PRT, which does not exist anywhere and probably never will. Just IMVHO as usual. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1902 Registered: 07-2004 |
Oh, yeah. PRT is a whole nother thing. I know. | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 239 Registered: 12-2007 |
Nerd, Speed should not be the benchmark for maturity. After all, I would consider a 747 to be more efficient than the Concord SST, but the Concord was 3 times a fast. It boils down to energy efficiency, environmental impact, and reliability. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1907 Registered: 07-2004 |
D_mcc: True, but speed is one of the mode's notable strong points, no? That's why I was surprised to see that the fastest maglev goes only 2 or 3 mph faster than TGV. | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 240 Registered: 12-2007 |
Perhaps, but if they are more energy efficient and the impact on the environment is significantly less, perhaps comparable speed is to be considered a success against a TGV??? | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1908 Registered: 07-2004 |
Maybe. I just have a hard time seeing maglev as a mature technology. Must have spent too much time playing Railroad Tycoon. | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 241 Registered: 12-2007 |
Why can't it be considered a future tech? We have been using the internal combustion engine for over 100 years, and the MagLev for maybe 20??? It is very efficient, reliable, and safe...and by the way the speed of the Maglev depends on the strength of the superconductor. just because production speeds compare to the TGV, does not mean that that top speed is the ceiling for the technology. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 5130 Registered: 10-2003 |
I <3 Railroad Tycoon. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1910 Registered: 07-2004 |
Anyway, they are rare, aren't they? (Except in Railroad Tycoon! haha. I'm with you, Johnlodge!) | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 243 Registered: 12-2007 |
Not really. Compared to other trains they are. High-speed maglevs are expensive to build, but they less expensive to operate and maintain than traditional trains, planes or buses | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 244 Registered: 12-2007 |
Not really. Compared to other trains they are. High-speed maglevs are expensive to build, but they less expensive to operate and maintain than traditional trains, planes or buses | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1911 Registered: 07-2004 |
How many maglev systems are there? | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 245 Registered: 12-2007 |
I dunno, I'll make some phone calls...? 6 running, 2 under construction, 20 in some form of planning or preconstruction, not including the transoceanic proposals. | ||
Ednaturnblad Member Username: Ednaturnblad Post Number: 27 Registered: 09-2006 |
Wasn't there a Simpsons episode about some kind of light-rail fix-all-ills system? As I recall, the results were disastrous! I'm voting against this! | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1912 Registered: 07-2004 |
Six systems in a world of billions, with countless transit systems, seems rare to me. But for the sake of argument, can we agree they are uncommon? | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 247 Registered: 12-2007 |
Yes, they are uncommon...but I am sure the steam locomotive was rare when it was first developed as well...and lets not forget about those new-fangled horseless carriages. Edna...that would be Monorail episode with Leonard Nemoy | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1913 Registered: 07-2004 |
D_mcc: You must think I'm just bustin' on maglev, but I'm not. Oh, and I believe that monorail episode was written by Conan O'Brien. WIGGUM: The cap fell off my pudding can. LANLEY: Use my penknife, my good man! | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 248 Registered: 12-2007 |
Mono-d'oh! | ||
Gsgeorge Member Username: Gsgeorge Post Number: 578 Registered: 08-2006 |
quote: Professorscott, I gotta call you out on this one. PRT system in operation in Morgantown, West Virginia since 1975 PRT coming to Heathrow Airport | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1914 Registered: 07-2004 |
Oh, man. The old PRT debate. I am soooo outta here. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3893 Registered: 10-2003 |
D_mcc knows a lot about a decades-old technology that exists virtually nowhere. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1105 Registered: 12-2006 |
The system operating in Morgantown is not PRT, it is just about precisely what the Detroit People Mover is. Calling it PRT doesn't make it so. The Heathrow system is "coming", so it doesn't yet exist. The basic concept of PRT is that it is point to point and the cars are small, and the system contains lots of branches and loops so you can get anywhere you want to go. This does not exist, and the Heathrow "PRT" is not going to be anything like what I just described either, assuming it actually gets built. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 5557 Registered: 10-2003 |
So we should build a mag-lev? | ||
Hans57 Member Username: Hans57 Post Number: 287 Registered: 05-2006 |
yup. | ||
L_b_patterson Member Username: L_b_patterson Post Number: 340 Registered: 10-2003 |
I like how we are so car dependent, that we have to come up with a new way to move them quicker. (the car in a car image) | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 465 Registered: 07-2007 |
If this was going to a proposed casino or racetrack to be located in Romulus, we would have hit the trifecta on pie-in-the-sky Detroit-area\ development proposals. | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 622 Registered: 02-2006 |
Never gonna happen! I'm willing to bet my car on it!••••<313> | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 5560 Registered: 10-2003 |
Sorry, my post 5557 was in response to a post that was subsequently deleted by the poster. I swear I didn't bump this nonsense. |
