  Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 2516 Registered: 01-2004 |
We are now so conditioned to gas price shock that the fuel prices can rise 20+ cents in a single day without so much as a flinch. But - I missed the latest lie as to WHY it went up 20 cents over night. Because its cold ? Because the sugar refinery blew up ? (I know its not a gas refinery, but it has REFINERY in the title!) During the day on 09/11/01, local officials and Governor Engler were on the television demanding that "gas gouging" be stopped, and then Attorney General Granholm promised swift prosecution of gougers. And at that time they were talking about a twenty cent increase. Now we are trained to expect instability in prices. Pblah. | ||
Sirrealone Member Username: Sirrealone Post Number: 75 Registered: 01-2007 |
A news story last night reported "good news, prices went down three cents in the past couple of days" meanwhile I drove by the Speedway and it went up 15 cents from Sunday to Monday. Yeah. | ||
Redvetred Member Username: Redvetred Post Number: 165 Registered: 04-2007 |
The price of a barrel of oil has increased to $93.59 and is headed to $100 per barrel again. Gasoline prices will be $3.25 by Spring and a steady $3.50 by Summer. Less than $3.00 per gallon will look very good in Fall 2008. There may be some minor fluctuations due to the Fall election but it will be only "feel good" and not permanent. | ||
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe Post Number: 1456 Registered: 08-2007 |
Prices are holding in our neighborhood, I guess I'd better run out and fill 'er up. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 610 Registered: 05-2006 |
"During the day on 09/11/01, local officials and Governor Engler were on the television demanding that "gas gouging" be stopped, and then Attorney General Granholm promised swift prosecution of gougers. And at that time they were talking about a twenty cent increase. " If I recall correctly, the stations that were prosecuted nearly doubled their pre-attack price by late afternoon. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 611 Registered: 05-2006 |
Here is some interesting/helpful information regarding gas prices: http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1 607,7-164-17334_17362-93060--, 00.html#Frequently_Asked_Quest ions | ||
Clark1mt Member Username: Clark1mt Post Number: 131 Registered: 06-2005 |
I suppose the industry could use the bomb scare in the North Sea a couple days ago as their excuse, but that would be stretching it, even for them. More likely, it's the onset of these very cold temperatures (which excuse wouldn't make full sense to me, but when do gas prices ever make sense?). | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 2306 Registered: 10-2006 |
"But - I missed the latest lie as to WHY it went up 20 cents over night. Because its cold ? Because the sugar refinery blew up ? (I know its not a gas refinery, but it has REFINERY in the title!)" Can the answer ever be as simple as supply and demand? | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 2307 Registered: 10-2006 |
"The simplest and most psychologically satisfying explanation of any observed phenomenon is that it happened that way because someone wanted it to happen that way." -Thomas Sowell | ||
Umbound Member Username: Umbound Post Number: 17 Registered: 02-2008 |
Well you know Gas Stations here in Michigan dont or barely make money off their gas. It is the grocery on the inside is what makes them real money they cant control the price. I know because i work at my brothers gas station at 7 and Southfield (Citgo). Its not our faults. And besides before my brother and dad and uncles bought it 3 years ago i did not even know that and a few cents still did not even bother me. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2943 Registered: 10-2003 |
Valero had a refinery off line due to a power failure caused by high winds over the weekend. It's back on line today. Crude prices are being artificially held up by Chavez's threat to cut off sales to the US and Royal dutch shell is having trouble getting oil out of the Niger Delta due to a sabotaged pipeline. Exxon is suing Venezuela's state owned oil company. Venezuela nationalized a major Exxon oil project. British courts have frozen $12 billion of Venezuela's cash. This led to Chavez's threat. http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/1 0/news/international/chavez.ap /index.htm?postversion=2008021 017 US Oil and gas stockpiles have been steadily climbing since Christmas. They are expecting another big bump in the stockpile report due tomorrow. OPEC is producing way over their quotas to cash in on the inflated prices. Look for stockpiles to continue to increase going into the spring. If the oversupply continues and the economy continues to suck prices will drop. | ||
Chuckjav Member Username: Chuckjav Post Number: 366 Registered: 09-2007 |
There is some useful information in the following article; it offers a possible explanation as to why crude oil and refined gasoline prices have skyrocketed (relative to the late 1990s): http://www.citizen.org/documen ts/oilmergers.pdf (Message edited by chuckjav on February 12, 2008) | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 2520 Registered: 01-2004 |
"If I recall correctly, the stations that were prosecuted nearly doubled their pre-attack price by late afternoon." Yes - that happened. But I am referring to specific news conferences where Engler actually says the amounts I referenced, which compare to the amounts gas goes up in a single price change lately. | ||
Sirrealone Member Username: Sirrealone Post Number: 76 Registered: 01-2007 |
Can someone explain how station owners claim not to make money, yet the prices are consistently higher in certain areas? A Marathon in Troy might be $3.099, a Marathon in Southfield might be $2.999, and a Marathon in the New Center area might be $2.899. That 10 and 20 cent difference remains consistent (i.e. it's definitely not a matter of prices being adjusted at different times, it's always higher in Troy and lowest in Detroit). Do station owners in Troy pay more for the same gas as a station owner 10 or 15 miles away? Seems to me that they wouldn't, and therefore there ARE some stations are marking up and making money on gasoline. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 5043 Registered: 10-2003 |
Someone should make the title of this thread a T-Shirt on CafePress. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1876 Registered: 07-2004 |
Yes, the idea that -- with a president, vice president and secretary of state having been in the oil business -- somehow the government is letting oil companies gouge the American public is ridiculous. The only reason gas prices have risen and oil companies' profits have gone up dramatically since the Bush administration took office is, um, because, um, you know, they, er, they've been working so hard and, um, you know ... Anyway, pay no attention to that little man behind the curtain!  | ||
Chuckjav Member Username: Chuckjav Post Number: 367 Registered: 09-2007 |
Sirrealone...You bring up a good point. I used to make sales calls on grocery stores and gasoline stations throughout south-central Michigan. On a routine basis - in my presence - both independent store owners & chain store managers would phone one another with the expressed intent of fixing prices on gasoline & cigarettes so as to remain in "friendly competition" with one another. "Friendly competition" = price fixing....which I always thought was illegal. Bottom Line: Anything goes in or society; there seems to be no regulation whatsoever. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2944 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: It's about the cost of doing business in those areas. Gas is not the only expense for a gas station. They also need to pay mortgages, facility maintenance costs, employees wages and property taxes. More upscale areas have higher property acquisitions costs. They also have higher property taxes. They may even have to pay higher wages to attract nearby employees. Maintenance costs are higher due to the nearby customers higher standards. | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 220 Registered: 12-2007 |
High gas prices could be the best thing for mass transit in detroit. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 2521 Registered: 01-2004 |
I understand all that Ndavies - Im just never sure about the sudden coordinated jumps in price, that usually come with a public explanation that gets floated in the news. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 3894 Registered: 10-2003 |
We'll pay whatever the price of gas is, because we have to. We have NO CONTROL over the price. It is what it is. Next year, $4 per gallon will be the norm. The oil companies know that they have not even come close to the maximum price threshold that consumers will tolerate. What we all HAVE control over is our vehicles -- in particular, how much they cost to operate (fuel economy, maintenance costs, insurance costs, purchase price, projected depreciation, and how much we drive). Reduce your cost of operation and you won't be hit as hard by rising fuel prices. If your vehicle costs a lot to operate, the solution is simple: get rid of it and get something that is less expensive to run. | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 221 Registered: 12-2007 |
I really despise the greenwashing the autocompanies are doing these days. Hybrid SUVs...like the Gm Hybrid that gets a whopping 18MPG...5 miles more than what it normally gets. And people buy into it. Ridiculous | ||
Detourdetroit Member Username: Detourdetroit Post Number: 377 Registered: 10-2003 |
why are you guys complaining so much...we've got the DUR to get around...oh wait, that's an alternative universe...silly me! | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 3466 Registered: 06-2004 |
When I worked in a gas station we never called our competitors to fix a price. That's illegal. Every day we conducted a price survey, driving past the other stations in our area, then adjusted our price accordingly. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 3467 Registered: 06-2004 |
"Hybrid SUVs...like the Gm Hybrid that gets a whopping 18MPG...5 miles more than what it normally gets. And people buy into it. Ridiculous" not ridiculous if the majority of the driver's trips are short or city driving, where the battery power gets used the most | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2945 Registered: 10-2003 |
What's not to understand. It's a commodities Futures market. You can follow it here. http://www.bloomberg.com/marke ts/commodities/cfutures.html There are sellers who think they have x numbers of barrels to sell next month. There are buyers who think they need y numbers of barrels next month. If x is lower than y prices go down. If x is higher than y prices go up. The buyers and sellers are just trying to figure out which news will cause the most effect on supply and demand. They sit in an office and gamble with other peoples money based on the news reports. The only thing that drives the prices is the news. News of lower demand, news of supply interruptions, news of overproduction, news of a US recession..... | ||
Umbound Member Username: Umbound Post Number: 19 Registered: 02-2008 |
THANK YOU!! Ndavies! I dont think anybody just paid any attention to what I said, it depends on the area for their to be price fixing or not (sad to say it) my brothers gas station at 7 and Southfield we dont do price fixing because its competition on 7 mile to bring in more customers. Whoever has the lower price they are going to come to it even a penny makes all the difference, if my family did not own a gas station I still would not care about the price, even before 3 years ago when we did by it. | ||
Sirrealone Member Username: Sirrealone Post Number: 77 Registered: 01-2007 |
quote: I agree with this to some extent but it's not fair to make this blanket statement. Mass transit development is so expensive that it could be cost-prohibitive to do so to the scale that many people here would like. Much of the blame for not having this in place has to go to people in charge over the past 50 years. quote: Unfortunately, this isn't always the case. It drives me NUTS when I drive by a place that has a higher price than somewhere right across the street, and I see people there. In my ideal world, the people with the higher prices would always have empty pumps. Always. But, some people are just so into their routine that they'll go to their favorite station, no matter what. I personally will go out of my way to a cheaper station. Often, it might be a wash as to my gas usage to get there versus my cost savings, but to me, it's about not supporting those who gouge. | ||
Umbound Member Username: Umbound Post Number: 21 Registered: 02-2008 |
Why dont you think of it like this, your only saving a few cents when you go to a station that is only TWO cents cheaper. what are you going to save a dime or two when you pump somewhere that is two cents cheaper, think about it like that. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 1009 Registered: 01-2005 |
In the vast majority of cases the price is set by the jobber (the guy that buys gas at the Marathon refinery, for example, and delivers/sells it to 100s of gas stations regardless of brand.) Gas in Detroit comes from the Marathon refinery, and from a pipeline which originates in Harvey IL (the Clark refinery) and picks up gas along the way from the refineries in Whiting, IN (BP et al) Stations make a few pennies (from .01 cent to 5 cents per gallon in most cases.) A gas station makes money on the Slurpees, Slim Jims and cigs that it sells, at very high profits. Some branded stations, owned by the oil companies and leased to operators, control the price of gas in their leases. There's a good book, "From the Pump to the Well(?)" by Lisa Marinelli(?) that devotes a couple of chapters to the economics of ownership of gas stations and explains the entire pricing process. Very interesting and I'll try to get the correct name of e book if anyone's interested; I'm out of town and have no access to my copy.) |
