  Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism Post Number: 689 Registered: 06-2005 |
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20080221/OPI NION01/802210306 It is very sad to say that the cost of owning and operating a car is quickly becoming a serious burden to many people. When you consider the less obvious expenses, such as the $300-$500 repair for pothole damages and the $100-$200 traffic violations that so many have mentioned on the other threads, it sure sounds like we are ready to just ride an LRT or subway to our next destination. We are obviously aware that the price of gas isn't coming down. We obviously know that auto insurance isn't getting any cheaper. Aside from the initial amount we pay to purchase a vehicle, the rest of the misc. expenses can be avoided if only there are good options available to get from Point A to Point B. After reading the FreeP and DetNews for the past couple of days, it is clear that Metro Detroiters need to organize and to speak up for rapid mass transit. We can personally benefit from such convenience, financially and more. | ||
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634 Post Number: 330 Registered: 10-2005 |
Perhaps we should be asking our senators and congressmen, some of whom have served longer than most of us here have been alive, where Michigan's "Big Dig" project is? The State is broke, the largest city is broke, and the rest are barely getting by or hunkering down in preparation of worse days ahead. The massive amount of money needed to create a viable mass transit system for SE Mich (basically from scratch) will need to come from somewhere and it isn't going to be from local taxes. So, Mr. Levin... Mr. Dingell (Mr. Dean of the House), Mr. Conyers... Why are Michigan tax dollars funding Boston's projects? Why is a state that has been in a one state recession a "donor" state year after year? I'd prefer that question be answered before Mr. Conyers floats his reparations bill again or the impeachment of GWB. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 5284 Registered: 10-2004 |
Perhaps, Levin, Conyers, Dingell, and Kilpatrick are ineffectual themselves and have no suck among the other Congressmen or Senators. That none of those is a real heavyweight among their peers should come as no surprise, except to Detroiters. | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 5253 Registered: 10-2003 |
I thought Levin, as head of the Senate Armed Forces Committee, had a little pull. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 3549 Registered: 06-2004 |
Reparations would help Conyers' constituents a lot. I can understand him pushing for that, even if I think it would be a boondoggle. Dingell works harder for the auto industry than any other Representative does and he's brought $$ in the form of the new VA facility and is also pushing for a National Park in Monroe, among other things. Frankly getting rid of Bush would help Michigan overall faster than any individual project would. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3898 Registered: 10-2003 |
Sen. Levin does have some pull. Unfortunately, he's been more concerned with forcing DC cabs to switch over to time-and-distance meters. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 5285 Registered: 10-2004 |
OK, let's get a military highway (anti-Indian supply route) through Michigan like they had during the early 1800s... Levin is considered one of the biggest doofuses, especially when he wears his spectacles in his unique manner. | ||
Rbdetsport Member Username: Rbdetsport Post Number: 452 Registered: 11-2005 |
I agree completely with you. How can Boston get federal funding, enough for a $14 Billion project but Detroit and Michigan can't get anything. In SEMCOGS, Improving Transit in Southeast Michigan: A Framework for Action document, it is said that building LRT on the 12 corridors recommended would cost a total of $14 Billion and the same corridors with BRT would cost $1.8 Billion. Figuring that all of the Main artery lines from downtown would be LRT, but the rest would be BRT, a total system cost could cost around $10 Billion. Light Rail Lines- Woodward Fort-Eureka Grand River Gratiot Jefferson Michigan Van Dyke Bus Rapid Transit Lines- 8 Mile Big Beaver Greenfield M-59 Telegraph Boston can build a $14 billion road project, but Metro Detroit can't build a complete transportation system for +/- $10 Billion. The senators and representatives need to step in and get extensive federal funding. | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2964 Registered: 08-2004 |
I used to be a proponent of mass transit for the Metro Detroit population. I have even come to realize that this state will continue to be left further behind as long as the local leaders and federal government continues to ignore Michigan's most serious needs. I blame the local and state governments for wasting taxpayers' money on short-term solutions and lack of creativity (do we really need another casino at the airport??). At the same time, I also blame the federal government for enacting an ill-advised, unnecessary war on two fronts (Iraq and Afghanistan and soon Iran) and cutting back funds in the most vital areas in our nation: education, human services, transportation, infrastructure and much more. I think the bridge collapse in Minneapolis last summer was a warning that the United States must refocus on its domestic issues. Michigan cannot survive on its own if we have incompetent leadership and no money. If the federal government is willing to donate millions of money to startup a transit line system for the Metro Detroit instead of costly and inefficient studies, maybe this state will regain the recognition it once has. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 3550 Registered: 06-2004 |
Levin and Stabenow are Senators. The Senate does not have the power of the purse. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3899 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Because Congress likes Boston better. That's why. In all seriousness, planning for the Big Dig project started in the early 1980s. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts 1) demonstrated a need to unclog the economically vital Central Artery, 2) identified a local source of funding (Mass Pike Authority), and 3) asked for the damn money. Congress isn't going to just up and appropriate money for a transit system in Detroit. The local | ||
Rbdetsport Member Username: Rbdetsport Post Number: 453 Registered: 11-2005 |
http://www.semcog.org/uploaded Files/Programs_and_Projects/Tr ansportation/Transit/Ann_Arbor _to_Detroit_Rail_Study/transit plan10-01.pdf I would think that would be good enough for federal funding. The document issues transit ridership on every corridor and population of residential and commercial within the areas. It also makes note of the attractions along the route. Putting all of the transit studies together that have continued to be wasted throughout the years should be enough. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 5286 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote:This quote of Lilpup is the dumbest post in this thread yet to date. Ever hear of the United States Senate Committee on Appropriations? quote: | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 5256 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Give it time, the thread only started about a half hour ago. I'm sure there will be dumber ones to come. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3900 Registered: 10-2003 |
Rbdetsport--that project *did* receive federal funding--$100 million of it. I think what Lilpup was referring to was that revenue-generating bills must originate in the House. | ||
Rbdetsport Member Username: Rbdetsport Post Number: 454 Registered: 11-2005 |
The project that received federal funding was the AA-Detroit Transit Study that can not get the funding until ridership numbers are available. The SEMCOG study is a Transportation Plan for 2025. | ||
Warrenite84 Member Username: Warrenite84 Post Number: 248 Registered: 01-2007 |
I hope Dennis Hertel & Co. can get the DETOGS project up and running to be able to ask for the money.( Obviously Wash.D.C. wants the plan fully laid out before it opens the purse.) The big "IF" here is the ability of city/county personalities putting their differences aside to get it done....we are doomed. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 5287 Registered: 10-2004 |
Revenue-generating = taxing, a Democrat specialty The other side of the coin, spending (= "investment"), is also a Democrat specialty... | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 3552 Registered: 06-2004 |
LY obviously hasn't been paying much attention to the Federal level these last six years. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 5288 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote:Somebody in DC probably had a five-function hand calculator and a fourth-grade math edge-Jew kayshun and did the easy arithmetic churning of the ridership numbers and costs that SEMCOG had included in their 2006 study. The study that had an average ride (using SEMCOG's own ridership and cost data) costing around $150 per ride (one-way). Mind-numbing cost figures like that have a natural tendency to deflate just about anybody's (lead) balloons. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3901 Registered: 10-2003 |
Quick, break out the five-function calculator: If the Ann Arbor - Detroit commuter rail line were to cost $150 a ride, that means it only provides 13,300 rides in its entire lifetime. Surely, someone with a fourth grade education knows you're bullshitting. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 5290 Registered: 10-2004 |
A figure that mentioned SEMCOG's ridership among its operating costs (no capital costs taken into consideration, BTW) is obviously $150 per passenger-ride (one-way). That SEMCOG study is somewhere in DY's archives, if one wanted to take the effort searching for it. | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 631 Registered: 04-2006 |
The Improving Transit in Southeast Michigan: A Framework for Action never made it off the shelf but the Plan to restore and protect mass transit funding did make if off the shelf. From June 2003 to November 2006, thousands of cars were removed from the freeways and both SMART and DDOT bus rider ship was increased. But, our state has abolished operating funds from the gas tax and slashed matching grants for federal money. Livonia city council has taken away from SMART. This is because the SMART property tax was is a tax shift which means that we pay with the property tax. Thus, more funds must come from passenger fares and local taxes and from voting in leaders that will fight the large freeway projects and protect more of the gas tax for mass transit. A penny increase in the gas tax will restore SMART and a few more pennies can restore all transit funds and we can spend the full ten percent on existing mass transit needs, if we vote in mass transit leaders. DY’ers, learn the facts and cast your votes for the best transportation plan as a package deal. The voting booth is the freedom that we have that helps make our country the best in the World. | ||
Fishtoes2000 Member Username: Fishtoes2000 Post Number: 420 Registered: 06-2005 |
Representative Knollenberg used to chair the Appropriations Subcommittee on Transportation, Treasury, and HUD. But, with the Rs now in the minority, he's just the Ranking Member. | ||
Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism Post Number: 690 Registered: 06-2005 |
Does anybody here on DetroitYes object to having a few thousand dollars in their pocket each year, just from car maintenance, gas fill-ups, insurance, and etc. ? On a different note, the Delta/Northwest Airlines merger talk could potentially be a huge boost to Metro Detroit's economy - http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20080220/BUS INESS05/802200388 Of course, how can our airport be a jewel without quality rapid mass transit options ? How many decades does it take for Metro Detroiters to realize that we are screwing up every single opportunity that comes our way ? | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1659 Registered: 09-2007 |
I'd say one way Metro Detroiters could realize the importance of mass transit is being assured that it's ran properly (maintenance is up to date and the overall service is decent). No one chooses to ride transit around here because they must wait hours at the stop for their lines and the coaches break down every other second. (Message edited by detroitrise on February 22, 2008) | ||
Umbound Member Username: Umbound Post Number: 44 Registered: 02-2008 |
To be honest i don't think this region needs rapid mass transit (In my opinion). My next door neighbor is a property developer (He was second in line to buy the Masonic but the Illitches beat him) he told this region does not need it. He told me it like this, if this region needs mass transit so bad our smart buses would be full up the ass. I thought about it and he is right. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 5296 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote:Using common sense arguments won't work with the emotionally based crowds at DY or metro Detroit, in general. | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 278 Registered: 12-2007 |
http://www.treehugger.com/file s/2008/02/the_hidden_cost_1.ph p Point taken | ||
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336 Post Number: 5230 Registered: 02-2007 |
"Levin is considered one of the biggest doofuses, especially when he wears his spectacles in his unique manner." what a moronic thing to say. Levin has a great deal of respect on both sides of the aisle. Umbound, what your neighbor expressed is a crock -- there is a HUGE difference in ridership between bus and rail. look how successful those train to the tigers things were. that is a much truer indicator |
