  D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 279 Registered: 12-2007 |
^^^And I highly doubt his neighbor was going to buy the masonic...Illitch didn't buy the Masonic...read more carefully. | ||
7051 Member Username: 7051 Post Number: 70 Registered: 02-2006 |
umbound, With comments like yours, I don't see how your name can hold true. How about mccbound? | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3903 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: More importantly, of course no one is going to take the bus when you build an entire metropolitan area specifically for cars. Who's realistically going to ride a bus from one parking lagoon to another? | ||
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634 Post Number: 333 Registered: 10-2005 |
\quote { .. if this region needs mass transit so bad our smart buses would be full up the ass. I thought about it and he is right. Using common sense arguments won't work with the emotionally based crowds at DY or metro Detroit, in general.} That presupposes the Smart/DDot buses are the relative equivalent of individual transportation. Basically what you are saying is that people are choosing cars over mass transit simply because they prefer cars. I think that is a bad assumption. For example, I would ride the bus/light rail/subway..whatever.. if it went where I needed to go with little variation in time it would take me to drive. (when i was working downtown, I tried the bus. My 15-20 minute drive converted to a two hour bus trip..that was the end of that experiment.) Now, my job has moved out of Detroit, I now commute suburb to suburb, and when at work I need to get out and go to other places. There is no viable option for me. I would guess this is true for the majority of the working population in the Tri-county area. So, it's not that people are choosing to avoid mass transit, it's that mass transit just isn't an option except as a last resort. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 444 Registered: 07-2007 |
"To be honest i don't think this region needs rapid mass transit" You're right, what we need are more roads and more freeways to encourage more development even further out into the exurbs of Detroit. We've seen how successful that strategy has been for the past 50 years. While other cities in the US foolishly pursue mass transit and development strategies encouraging urban development and redevelopment, Detroit has shown them how pursuing a strategy of sprawl and urban disinvestment results in a region that tops all others in the US. Thanks for sharing the wisdom of your property developer friend. It's people like that who have made Detroit the place where everyone wants to live. | ||
Rob_in_warren Member Username: Rob_in_warren Post Number: 77 Registered: 11-2007 |
I agree with detroitrise. From my own perspective, the bus system doesn't work because we are a car culture. 1) We equate taking the bus with being poor, or being a degenerate. 2) It seems to be the slowest way to go anywhere for someone with a car. 3) Furthermore, I don't know how the bus system works??? I'd be afraid of getting off the bus and not getting another one to take me the direction I need to go next. No one uses the bus system because we don't see any upside. The high cost of autos is bad, but it is something we are conditioned to accept. We've got to change the structure and perception of mass transit before we can accurately find out how many people would use it. Changing the name to SMART or whatever isn't going to change anyones mind. A multi-billion dollar investment with faster, dedicated transit lines would do just that (I think). I hope we can get the regions leaders to start seriously talking about it one day soon... I'm not holding my breath. | ||
Figebornu Member Username: Figebornu Post Number: 70 Registered: 01-2008 |
It is never too late (at least in a lot of situations), but if SE Michigan does not get its act together and begin to build a massive region-wide mass transit system by the end of next year, our area will fall fast. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 1235 Registered: 07-2007 |
who is going to pay for this again? | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3904 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Who pays for all the roads??? Oh, I forget--roads are free. | ||
Fnemecek Member Username: Fnemecek Post Number: 2715 Registered: 12-2004 |
quote: Those "ineffectual" Congressmen and Senators have been bringing home a couple billion dollars every year for transportation projects in Michigan. The problem is that almost all of it has been spent on expanding one highway project or another instead of using for mass transit, like most other states do. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 445 Registered: 07-2007 |
Not only are roads free but so are airports. The only form of subsidized transportation is mass transit. Everyone else pays their fair share and the taxpayers don't contribute a cent towards those costs. | ||
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634 Post Number: 334 Registered: 10-2005 |
quote: I'll rephrase it for him; Who is going to pay to maintain all the current roads AND a come up with the massive lay out of capital for a from scratch mass transit system? | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3905 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: The same people that pay for it in any civilized state? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 5300 Registered: 10-2004 |
quote:same people = those working in a (over)taxing and (over)spending state | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3906 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote:} With higher employment, higher incomes, higher property values, thriving neighborhoods, and better mobility. | ||
Umbound Member Username: Umbound Post Number: 45 Registered: 02-2008 |
I thought Illitch bought the Masonic? I Assumed. and besides my neighbor had all the paperwork ready to buy it, he showed me it. Also New York City has mass transit and they can still barely keep it under control, Detroit is not like that, oh and 7051 i already got into UM anyway. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 447 Registered: 07-2007 |
Ann Arbor? Hope you don't ever have to suffer the mass transit system in Ann Arbor. You'll see how getting around Tree Town is so much more pleasant when you do it by car. All those fools who rely on their feet or bikes or the bus systems are just delusional compared to all of the enlightened car drivers who come from SE Michigan. | ||
Umbound Member Username: Umbound Post Number: 46 Registered: 02-2008 |
I mean it driving in my car everyday honestly does not bother I do it everyday, and i like walking anyway. But still In MY opinion i don't think mass transit will help the region all that much. Somebody enlighten me please. (it will give me one more reason why to stay here after I graduate from UM and move out to LA) | ||
Margdar Member Username: Margdar Post Number: 15 Registered: 08-2007 |
"New York City has mass transit and they can still barely keep it under control" Will you elaborate further, Um? | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1934 Registered: 07-2004 |
Essential Support for a Strong Economy The Benefits Of Public Transportation Download in Adobe PDF format. The evidence is clear: To maintain a sound and vibrant national economy and to enhance Americans’ quality of life, the US must increase its investment in public transportation. Providing a broad and sustainable economic stimulus to local communities, metropolitan regions, states and the nation, public transportation: * Boosts business revenues and profits * Creates jobs and expands the labor pool * Stimulates development and redevelopment * Expands local and state tax revenues and reduces expenditures required for other essential public services * Reduces household and business costs and enhances worker and business productivity Public transportation contributes to the nation’s economic strength in two fundamental ways: * Direct dollar investment, multiplied throughout the economy * Improved transportation options, which create economic benefits for individuals, households, businesses and governments Dollars invested in public transportation flow through all sectors of the economy and a cross section of American communities, large and small, urban and rural. Through increased jobs, income, profit and tax revenue, they provide an economic stimulus far exceeding the original investment — as much as six dollars for every dollar invested.*1 In addition to directly stimulating the economy, investment in public transportation enhances mobility for businesses and households, thereby: * Protecting personal freedom, choice and mobility * Enhancing access to opportunity * Enabling economic prosperity * Protecting our communities and the natural environment Every $10 million capital investment in public transportation can return up to $30 million in business sales alone. 1 * Under different scenarios, the overall economic benefits of public transportation investment may be as high as nine to one. from http://www.apta.com/research/i nfo/online/essential.cfm | ||
Umbound Member Username: Umbound Post Number: 47 Registered: 02-2008 |
Ok thanks I am just wondering. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1685 Registered: 11-2003 |
Just think of all the wonderful projects in this country that could be funded with the money we are wasting in Iraq right now. | ||
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634 Post Number: 335 Registered: 10-2005 |
quote: Yup.. but none of those projects would be mass transit for Detroit. More than likely it would be a 8 lane expansion of I75. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 1935 Registered: 07-2004 |
All I can say is "$275,000,000 a day." It's f@<king unbelievable ... http://www.nationalpriorities. org/costofwar_home | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1117 Registered: 12-2006 |
It's worse than "wasting" money, Bob, I can waste money without killing people. What we are doing is spending billions of dollars to take lots of 19 year old American kids and lots of 19 year old Iraqi kids and put them through a sausage grinder. Nobody seems to know how to stop it. | ||
Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism Post Number: 691 Registered: 06-2005 |
There are lots of money out there, as indicated above regarding war spending. Let's stay on topic concerning funneling those money to Metro Detroit's rapid mass transit goals in the next 4-6 years. Is writing and calling our state reps the fastest way to achieve results ? | ||
Parkguy Member Username: Parkguy Post Number: 223 Registered: 04-2007 |
Here's a reason to develop mass transit and the transit-oriented development that we need: The cost of car ownership. It costs over $8500 per year to own and operate a car. That's average for the U.S. I just saw yesterday that the CHEAPEST state to own a car based on total cost of ownership for five years is over $47,000 for the average car ($32,000 car, five years=average lenth of ownership). You can buy a heck of a lot of monthly transit passes for that, and I know there are plenty of families who could think of some other uses for that money. | ||
Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism Post Number: 692 Registered: 06-2005 |
quote: I spend a little less than the $8500 amount stated above, but our family has 2 cars, so a rough estimate would put us at about $15K per year. I don't know about the rest of you folks here in SE Michigan - I know I would sure love to have $15K in my pocket year in and year out, if it means renting a car whenever I need to go out-of-town. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4455 Registered: 02-2005 |
Novine, were you serious about the transit in A2? Sure it's not comprehensive enough (in terms of not going late enough and on weekends), but it is immensely helpful. Ridership is high, and it's becoming an advanced system, with hybrid biodiesel buses. Mass transit in metro Detroit is a major indicator to me. I will know that we have arrived into a new generation, free of the old fears, misgivings, and prejudices, if this region embraces transit. I am more than likely preparing to leave Michigan for a few years; to come back, I'll first need to be able to get a good job, but I will also want to make sure that the attitudes in this region are changing. I am hopeful that the City itself will indeed push for regional change and continue to garner a nice rate of redevelopment, but the region as a whole still worries me. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 449 Registered: 07-2007 |
"Novine, were you serious about the transit in A2?" No but I thought I was being sarcastic enough to be obvious. Ann Arbor is proof that you can make transit work and if you're a student at U-M, especially if you live in the dorms, you really don't need your own car in town. |
