 
Sharms
Member
Username: Sharms
Post Number: 51
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 1:53 am: |    |
When I found this board about a year ago, I was thrilled. I've been gone from the Detroit area for 20+ years, but I have always loved my time there growing up and through college. When I last left Detroit, I had been working at Channel 7 and remember the excitement the day Mike Ilitch announced he had purchased the Red Wings and the Joe.
Obviously, that was a great move for the Wings and later the Tigers, but I often detect a resentment toward the fact that he has gathered so many other Detroit holdings.
From the outside, it looks great with the new ballpark, Fox Theater etc.....but is there a resentment? Something not right in the minds of Detroiters. I'm just curious. I was reading the Larry Aurie retired number controversy and there seems to be some problems with the attitude toward the Ilitch's.
Maybe just my ignorance to what has gone on over the years......I'm just curious. Thnx |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 796
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 6:47 am: | |
I think there is some natural resentment to any group that wields as much influence as the Ilitch clan can. Seemingly with a wave of their hand they can make buildings rise and fall, and it is natural to feel a twinge of envy at their good fortune.
Why don't they fix up the United Artist building, or the G.A.R., or the Detroit Life or the, or the, or the ...
Why don't they feed the homeless, clothe the naked, contribute to saving whales and seals and puppies and cities? Why don't get behind my candidate? My block, my city, my idea.
It's obvious my ideas are the best. My plans are superior to everyone elses and the endlessly deep pockets of the Ilitch clan should pay for eveything.
Even if I hate their pizza and refuse to buy it.
(Message edited by gnome on February 25, 2008) |
Burnsie
Member
Username: Burnsie
Post Number: 1291
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 9:42 am: | |
I'm not asking Illitch to feed the poor, clothe the naked, etc. etc. I (and many others on this forum) just wish he would have posted at least one security guard at any of his abandoned buildings, to keep the scrappers and vandals away. I'm not saying he should fix up every one--but simply keep them secure. Is that really asking too much?
(The UA excepted, since that has gotten some work done lately). |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6344
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 11:57 am: | |
Agreed Burnsie... and it becomes tacky for them to get grants or zero interest loans to demolish some of their property. They got a $700K low interest loan to demolish the Madison-Lenox, they got another grant to demolish the Vermont Hotel.
They do have deep pockets, so using scarce grant money (chump change to them) means that other developers of lesser means don't have access to possible development resources.
One of the Freeps Op/Ed writers said it best about the Ilitch clan... "Flawed Brilliance".
They have done an awful lot for Detroit, but just have a sometimes tacky way of going about it.
They sure could use a better public relations firm, but then that would involve being told what to do... and if there's one thing about the Ilitch's.... they don't like to be told what to do! |
Hornwrecker
Member
Username: Hornwrecker
Post Number: 1987
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 12:52 pm: | |
(Recycling a PS I made awhile back) |
Civilprotectionunit4346
Member
Username: Civilprotectionunit4346
Post Number: 631
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 5:14 pm: | |
I can't stand the Illitch's and as well as their crappy pizza. Poor UA theater/building still sits there and nothing has been done with it. I agree with one of the posters...that family should do more with their money for the city. Instead of letting parts of the city rot. They should spend it towards helping the city that got them to where they are now and help out some of the blighted areas of detroit. |
Outoftown
Member
Username: Outoftown
Post Number: 19
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 5:25 pm: | |
I've got nothing against the Illitchs. Shoot, they could leave the gate open and let crackheads have sex behind their buildings for weeks while it is photographed for all I care. I just want him to get decent hair. What's up with that, and Donald Trump too. Gene Simmons could use some help while I'm at it, did you see him on apprentice? |
Nainrouge
Member
Username: Nainrouge
Post Number: 842
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 5:37 pm: | |
I loved Atanas in "Slumber Party Massacre II" as the Driller Killer.... |
Rel
Member
Username: Rel
Post Number: 237
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 8:25 pm: | |
Gnome,
I think you're spot-on.
The Ilitches are shrewd business people who have put money where their mouths are. Where others just offer ideas and criticism, they are standing right there with a checkbook. Sometimes those business ideas come with problems and people who disagree. Personally, I am a staunch preservationist who has a love/hate relationship with them, but I think their heart is generally in the right place. Recent example: their bail-out of the Masonic Temple.
Can you picture the City without their "empire"? I am appreciative of their commitment to the City while other investors look away. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3916
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 8:46 pm: | |
quote:The Ilitches are shrewd business people who have put money where their mouths are. Where others just offer ideas and criticism, they are standing right there with a checkbook.
Considering how much public money they've received for their *ahem* preservation efforts, I think the Ilitches deserve all the criticism they receive. |
Rel
Member
Username: Rel
Post Number: 240
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 8:58 pm: | |
Again, I will mention the word "business". It's about $$, not pure philanthropy. If you find a pure philanthropist to develop downtown, I'd like to meet them.
I stand by my original comments. *Overall*, I am glad they are there. But their decisions sometimes do come with controversy, some deserved. It's a mixed bag, Dan. Thanks for your post.
(edited for typo)
(Message edited by rel on February 25, 2008) |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6357
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 1:15 am: | |
Um... the Ilitch's have (finally) put a new roof onto the United Artists Building and Theatre. It does seem as though it's too little to late, but as long as it's not beyond repair, I'm glad they final did that much. Probably to entice Quicken... |
Dtroit
Member
Username: Dtroit
Post Number: 16
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 1:38 am: | |
First of all the Ilitch's have plans for what they own. They didn't become wealthy by being stupid or careless with their money. Just because you all are not in the know, doesn't mean anything. If there is public money and or low interest rates to restore/raze buildings then why shouldn't he use it? Again, it would be irresponsible of him to waste his money on something you can get a grant or low interest loan for. If wealth people and companies used their own money for everything they do and paid more than necessary, none of them would be wealthy people or companies. You say he can afford it on his own, and by him using the grants, it takes that money away from less fortunate developers well too damn bad. Then maybe they should have taken action earlier. I work for Ilitch Holdings and I do know some of the Ilitch clan. They are good people who really care about this city... |
Flyingj
Member
Username: Flyingj
Post Number: 93
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 2:27 am: | |
What's strange is these guys have done is nothing short of incredible...do you guys really respect what it's like to take a company national? I never cared for Domino's, growing up we had Dino's & Little Caesar's. But how is it that Dino's is long gone & after a few stumbles along the way L.C. is a nationwide chain? You can even find Hungry Howie's coast-to-coast. Nobody on the Food Channel ever does shows on "Detroit; America's Pizza City" Yet none of these successful chains are ever listed in "Detroit's Best Pizza"-it's Buddy's, Jet's, Cottage Inn etc etc And why do the Illitch's draw hate for doing what any poster on this board says they'd do if they had their money? You guys treat them like they're Dick Jones @ OCP |
Andylinn
Member
Username: Andylinn
Post Number: 742
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 3:28 am: | |
I don't expect the illitchs to do anything like clothe the naked or feed the poor. All I ask is that they aren't slum lords... If you buy a building, then for god sakes fix it up or mothball it. Buying properties to let them rot, and then demolish them for parking lots is nothing short of horrid. They don't HAVE to buy these properties... |
Eastside_cat
Member
Username: Eastside_cat
Post Number: 4
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 3:46 am: | |
Ok I can't take it anymore the "Class Envy" in this thread is comical, must be tough toiling it out in the Gulag of the "D". They should this; they should that with their money. It’s his money he started with nothing and is self made and when his beloved city went down the toilet he didn't take his fortune and run west to the good life, no he stayed and invested however shrewd the investment was. No one begged him to take discount/reduced loans on his developments, Mr. Ilitch qualified for them. I know this is just a smokey bar and we're all just shooting the breeze here but if it was YOUR money would you want some Joe telling you how to spend it. The challenge of sustainability in Detroit would make any 2nd year Grad student throw in the towel. The smartest comment here is quoted below.
"Can you picture the City without their "empire"? I am appreciative of their commitment to the City while other investors look away."
Don't taze me Bro |
56packman
Member
Username: 56packman
Post Number: 2065
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 7:11 am: | |
I have figured out where he is getting all of the demolition money.............
|
Rel
Member
Username: Rel
Post Number: 244
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 8:43 am: | |
Thanks, Eastside_cat.
It's easy to be an "armchair real estate investor." I think we all are sometimes, including me. It's easy to look at a building and think of what the owner "should" do or even assign someone to buy it. But then that humbling moment inevitably comes: I'm not the one who whipped out the checkbook & filled out the paperwork and it's not my decision. |
Chuckjav
Member
Username: Chuckjav
Post Number: 392
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 8:59 am: | |
Mike Ilitch is a graduate of Good Old Cooley High School; this would account for his brilliance and business savvy. As to why his Little Caesar's Pizza is so disgusting - I have no idea. |
Burnsie
Member
Username: Burnsie
Post Number: 1294
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 9:39 am: | |
Rel-- Of course it's not our decision what Illitch does with a building. But doesn't mean that it isn't correct to point out that he should post a damned security guard and board up the windows while he decides what to do with his buildings. |
Harpernottingham
Member
Username: Harpernottingham
Post Number: 362
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 9:40 am: | |
Pros and cons with the Ilitches. Pros and cons.
I think you have to respect what they've accomplished on many fronts. But the one thing that sticks in my craw -- and in the craws (if you will) of many others in this town -- is how they abandoned a classic American ballpark for that asinine arcade that sits across from the Fox Theatre today.
Here's an article you might appreciate, Sharms. It appeared in a few publications around town a few years ago as an open letter to Mike Ilitch with regard to Tiger Stadium. ...
Ilitch Could Be a Champion at Michigan and Trumbull
By DAVE MESREY
Everyone knows about the great things the Ilitch family has done for Detroit — how they restored the Fox and how they helped the Wings win three Stanley Cups. But not everyone knows about the great work of Ilitch Charities for Children. These are all admirable achievements for which they deserve major-league kudos.
But what about the current state of Tiger Stadium and Mike Ilitch’s role in its future?
Since 1999, the ballpark, which is owned by the City of Detroit, has sat mostly vacant — its girders growing rustier by the day. Yes, perhaps the stadium must go — at least the majority of it. But what’s stopping Ilitch from saving at least part of it? Perhaps this is an opportunity for him to preserve what’s arguably the most significant piece of history in Michigan.
What does Ilitch want his great-grandchildren to see when they visit the corner of Michigan and Trumbull? The hulking eyesore that sits there today?
Ilitch should instead think of his roots — of the day the Tigers drafted him as a sure-handed young shortstop — and lead the effort to save the structure. He should think of Ty Cobb and Willie Horton and Al Kaline and Mark "The Bird" Fidrych. Of 1968 and 1984 and of all the sights and sounds and smells from that historic intersection.
And then he should think of the mourning and melancholy of Sept. 27, 1999 — the day it all came to an end.
He should think, too, of Ebbets Field and how Brooklynites wept when their beloved ballpark crumbled under the wrecking ball.
It doesn’t have to end like that here.
For inspiration, Ilitch need only look to the old Hudson’s warehouse. Part of it was demolished, yes, but the remainder serves today — not as a black mark on our history — but as the cornerstone of Ford Field.
Ilitch should seek advice from his "special advisers" — Horton and Kaline. Ask them what they’d like to see. He should talk to Kirk Gibson and Jeff Daniels and all the movers and shakers in Michigan who can make things happen.
What harm could it do Ilitch to host a private symposium on the future of this beloved American ballpark? He can still save a small part of it — and a big part of his legacy. How about the Mike Ilitch Museum of Detroit Baseball History — at the corner of Michigan and Trumbull?
There, he can display his tremendous collection of baseball memorabilia — and even charge an admission fee. The museum could re-create what it was like to see the Tigers throughout history. Fans both young and old could see films of all the great Tigers and their historic rivals like Babe Ruth and Ted Williams and Joe DiMaggio.
Fans from near and far could hear Harry Heilmann on the radio once again. They could experience Ernie Harwell and George Kell and Paul Carey, and relive our tremendous baseball tradition. And when they’re done, they could hop on a shuttle to Comerica Park and see today’s Tigers in action.
Ilitch would get what he wants, the fans would get what they want, and perhaps we’d all win in the end.
# # # |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3919
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 9:44 am: | |
quote:Ok I can't take it anymore the "Class Envy" in this thread is comical, must be tough toiling it out in the Gulag of the "D". They should this; they should that with their money. It’s his money he started with nothing and is self made and when his beloved city went down the toilet he didn't take his fortune and run west to the good life, no he stayed and invested however shrewd the investment was. No one begged him to take discount/reduced loans on his developments, Mr. Ilitch qualified for them. I know this is just a smokey bar and we're all just shooting the breeze here but if it was YOUR money would you want some Joe telling you how to spend it.
Properly maintaining a building isn't a matter of "he should" wishful thinking--it's required by city ordinance.
At the same time, Mr. Ilitch begged and pleaded with the City of Detroit to obtain several million dollars in public money to take an historic (and salvageable) structure, and turn it into a surface parking lot.
If this is considered business-savvy behavior, then Detroit is truly f*cked. |
Cdwaters
Member
Username: Cdwaters
Post Number: 27
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 9:54 am: | |
I am certainly appreciative of any efforts to improve the city, including the Illitch family's. But that shouldn't get them a "free pass" in the case of the Madison Lenox as Danindc noted. I believe it's possible to both give praise and criticism to the same person. That is not in the least class envy. Considering they are given public money, taxpayers have every right to pass judgement on what people do with it. |
Nainrouge
Member
Username: Nainrouge
Post Number: 851
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 10:31 am: | |
Little Caesar's pizza sucks because of the rotisserie ovens. Their pizza used to be my favorite back when they used the regular ovens. Now it is never cooked through.
I agree that the Illitches have done a lot for the city, but if they don't fix the G.A.R. building soon, they will have lost all of my respect forever. That is one of my favorite Detroit buildings. |
56packman
Member
Username: 56packman
Post Number: 2066
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 11:27 am: | |
No one criticized David Grossman or Don Barden when they owned the UA. The building was in terrible repair then. I was back in the UA in the very early 90s and all of the deterioration that we see today had already happened. The looting of plaster ornamentation had not happened, although the building was open to anyone who wanted to try doing that.
It's easy to spend other people's money. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6359
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 3:48 pm: | |
One mistake that the Ilitch's made was to cross the National Trust For Historic Preservation.
No one had EVER torn down a building on the National Trusts 11 Most Endangered list in the 20 years they've been coming out with their annual list (at least during the year the building was on the list)... until the Madison Lenox (which was on the list the year it was stealthily demolished).
So the National Trust's President Richard Moe wanted to have a meeting with the Ilitch's... whom it turned out never returned his calls.
So the following year the National Trust decided to put literally all of downtown Detroit on the list.
And the National Trust decided to show what kind of property owner that Ilitch could be by putting the United Artists Building (when it still had all the painted up windows, decaying marquee, and was open to scavengers and the elements) on the front cover of their National Trust's magazine (national circulation 700,000) the following fall.
Not sure it got results, but now we see the United Artists is finally getting "stealth" attention (more likely due to Quicken). The roof of the building and theatre have been repaired, and continuous and mysterious work has continued inside for the past few months, much of it without permits (which is something that other building owners would be forbidden to do). And all the workers are mum about that. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)
I have personally met Mike Ilitch at a Detroit Economic Club luncheon. I really like the man. Just some of his family's actions come across as a little odd from time to time. |
Eastside_cat
Member
Username: Eastside_cat
Post Number: 6
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 4:22 pm: | |
Quote
"Properly maintaining a building isn't a matter of "he should" wishful thinking--it's required by city ordinance."
scores of abandoned homes. He's following the city lead.
"If this is considered business-savvy behavior, then Detroit is truly f*cked."
Yep... |
56packman
Member
Username: 56packman
Post Number: 2067
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 5:25 pm: | |
Gistok--if there is money to be made, and if an unoccupied (or utterly unprofitable) old building is in the way, the business interests desiring that property won't bat an eyelash having it taken down. Sometimes that means the equipment moves at night. but they get their way in the end because money talks (you know the rest).
Has anyone ever been cuffed and loaded into a squad car for demolishing a historic building?
I didn't think so. It's sad--I really like older buildings, but I have seen more than a few buildings taken down by stealth in order to further the developer's agenda. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying that it's been going on for decades and no threat of legal action (which amounts to no more than an annoyance) has stemmed it. Hudson's, the Packard plant, Madison Lennox, Little Harry's--all had court-ordered stays of demolition that were ignored. All that resulted was more work for lawyers. No one went to the crossbar hotel over it.
remember: "the meek shall inherit the earth, but only after the rich are finished with it"
(Message edited by 56packman on February 26, 2008) |
Downriviera
Member
Username: Downriviera
Post Number: 46
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 5:35 pm: | |
I have mixed feelings about the family. One thing that really bothered me was when they kicked the Junior Red Wings hockey team, who were owned by Karmanos, out of Joe Louis arena. Now whats wrong with bringing people to the city for 30 plus games and playoffs. Many times there were 15,000 people at those games. Sure many of the tickets were free, but those people came to town and spent money, many eating at Greektown and such. Now they play in Plymouth as the Whalers. |
Sstashmoo
Member
Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 1147
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 6:12 pm: | |
Nobody likes the "Boss Hogg" type of greed and hunger for power.
I'm betting he has made some acquisitions he regrets though. |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 1140
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 6:21 pm: | |
Is he enemy No. 1? No.
My biggest problem with him is that he's as greedy and selfish as they come, yet he is constantly rewarded and honored as the savior of Detroit. Nothing he has done hasn't been in his own best interest. OK, the Red Wings, Tigers and the Fox weren't sure-fire bread-winners for him, but rest assured, those investments have paid out. Plus, everyone says, "Look at how he saved the Fox!" Yes, he did. But that was 20 years ago. He built CoPa - not on his dime - and got it in an area where he owns 90% of the real estate and can charge $20 a car for parking and high rent for businesses that might want to capitalize on the proximity to the stadiums. Of course, he abandoned sacred ground at Michigan and Trumbull in order to do so. He has knocked down landmarks for parking. He has let other landmarks he has bought sit and rot (the UA and the GAR to name two). He gets away with almost anything he wants in the city because its leaders think he's a god (like getting MC Casino). And yeah, he brought back winning Tigers baseball, finally, but don't forget that the team sucked so bad for so long because of him.
Is he good for Detroit? I guess, but like I said, he is not the patron saint of goodwill, as the media and city leaders constantly portray him. Quite the opposite. |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 1261
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 6:51 pm: | |
He is great for the city, I don't see too many other people stepping up and plunking down tens of millions here. Is he greedy, sure, nothing wrong with that. Maybe a little vindictive sometimes.
PS: Mike, send donation to: Lefty at... |
Dtroit
Member
Username: Dtroit
Post Number: 17
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 8:22 pm: | |
Rhymeswithrawk, sounds like you may have more of a problem with capitalism more than Mr. I.
You can blame the city for much of what Ilitch does in Detroit, after all, if they don't follow through with their responsiblities such as enforcing codes and such, why bother? I know that is a sucky attitude, but this is the real world.
People call him a greedy and such, but he is also generous, which all part of being a good, successful businessman.
There are plenty of things I wish he would do in detroit, but I will also take what I can get. |
Taj920
Member
Username: Taj920
Post Number: 289
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 8:32 pm: | |
Mike Ilitch saved the Tigers and maybe the Red Wings. Monaghan was ready to move the Tigers to Tampa or Ann Arbor. Even with a brand new Joe in the early 1980s, the WIngs weren't drawing and could have left town. |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 1144
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 9:34 pm: | |
Rhymeswithrawk, sounds like you may have more of a problem with capitalism more than Mr. I.
No, Dtroit, as I said, I have a problem with how he's portrayed and honored as a philanthropist. |