 
Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485
Post Number: 3001
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 8:05 pm: |    |
Which transit system do you think will work the best for the Metro Detroit region? Explain why. (If you don't know the difference, look them up on Google or Wiki).
- Light-Rail (elevated or street-level)
- Monorail
- Subway
- Commuter Rail |
Detroitstar
Member
Username: Detroitstar
Post Number: 982
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 8:11 pm: | |
I think Commuter Rail is the best system to sink money into in terms of what is best for the city and region as a whole. But I dont know a whole lot. I am not a transit expert, and will not pretend to be one. |
Rocket_city
Member
Username: Rocket_city
Post Number: 643
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 8:21 pm: | |
Woodward could hangle heavy rail. A tube could effectively fit underneath Woodward for quite a length. It will never happen, since digging down will always be the most costly.
If Atlanta, with 1/2 the density of Detroit, can build a heavy rail MARTA line, then so could Detroit with much of the infrastructure to built upon already in place.
Other spoke corridors I'd support light rail and a commuter rail btw. AA and the city, via the airport as a must. |
W_chicago
Member
Username: W_chicago
Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 8:48 pm: | |
3 Tier System
1. High-speed rail connecting city center to city center. (i.e. chicago to detroit)
2. Commuter rail connecting suburb to suburb and suburb to city center
3. Local mass transit such as light rail or subway depending on need/geography. I would defiantly prefer heavy rail, but light-rail is great, and a good first option. Bus rapid transit sucks, and it would be a shame if thats what the Woodward like ends up as. |
W_chicago
Member
Username: W_chicago
Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 8:53 pm: | |
many of the APPARENT high costs of transit compared to roads is that 1) roads are much more heavily supported and subsidized by state and federal government than transit and 2) figures don't take into account external costs in benefit (cars produce smog, roads propel sprawl) and 3) the initial cost of transit is often returned many times over by increased investment and development in areas with GOOD transit (i.e. portland, denver, etc) |
Warrenite84
Member
Username: Warrenite84
Post Number: 249
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 8:56 pm: | |
I'd like a subway on the main spokes for a couple of miles. On Woodward, a subway to New Center with all becoming streetcars at the curbs. This would allow less traffic interaction between modes downtown, and allow continuance of longstanding traditions like the Thanksgiving day parades, and those plentiful Lions Superbowl Championship Parades. ;) |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1692
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 8:57 pm: | |
I always felt a subway system would WORK BEST in a city Detroit's size. It would encourage more density and not affect surface infrastructure.
However, since we're short on money, I'd say a Light Rail (street level) or Commuter Rail system would be best. You have to start somewhere. |
Warrenite84
Member
Username: Warrenite84
Post Number: 250
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 8:58 pm: | |
Yes W_chicago, a bullet train to the airport and AnnArbor would be very nice... |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5404
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 9:06 pm: | |
Two or more of everything. Make them "compete" (race).
Totally subsidized chauffeur-driven limousines for us self-important folk.
And a Gestapo for rounding up unwilling "passengers" out of their homes or wherever they hide when there's no passengers for transit.
24/7 service means just that: They make you ride all day long.
This'll be on the new transit ads: "Ya better ride if ya know what's good for ya." |
Warrenite84
Member
Username: Warrenite84
Post Number: 252
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 9:22 pm: | |
If Boston can get the $14 Billion Big Dig Project, a couple of billion on Detroit's behalf would be chump change. It's our leaders and our inability to get along that is preventing progress. |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 1143
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 9:31 pm: | |
Commuter rail would be the only viable option, especially in our broke-ass region. Subways, especially, are too expensive. Light-rail and monorail involve too much cost in land acquisition and materials. |
Tigers2005
Member
Username: Tigers2005
Post Number: 185
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 9:46 pm: | |
Light rail can, and will, work in Detroit. The line from Hart Plaza to the New Center will be great for the city. It will connect many of the key locations in the city. Stations will most likely be something like this:
Hart
CMP
GCP
Foxtown
Orchestra Place
DMC
WSU
DIA
TechTown
Amtrak at Baltimore
New Center
There are many other places of interest within a short walk from any of these stations. There are also several residential developments in and around this area. Some developments are currently under construction and there is a great deal of interest in developing more in this area. Imagine what this type of mobility can do for the area. And this is just the first piece of a larger puzzle. |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 1150
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 9:49 pm: | |
Or, if it follows the People Mover model, it will go from Hart Plaza to Grand Circus Park with 35 stops in between.
I honestly don't see there being enough people going between New Center and downtown to justify the cost of light-rail. As much as I'd like to have it, I think people will look at the DPM and think, "People don't even use what we already have." Granted, as I noted, the DPM doesn't go anywhere. |
Tigers2005
Member
Username: Tigers2005
Post Number: 186
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 9:49 pm: | |
This would also allow people to transfer to several other modes of transportation at the stops.
At Larned/Congress: transfer to SMART
At CMP-Capitol Park: DDOT
At GCP: DPM or MegaBus
At Baltimore: Amtrak |
Birwood
Member
Username: Birwood
Post Number: 75
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 9:58 pm: | |
Commuter Rail would probably work the best for this region, simply because there are railroad tracks already in place, and many of them sitting dormant. All they would need is some upgrading to the roadbeds and we would have a system interconnecting Monroe, Ann Arbor, Metro Airport, Brighton, Pontiac and Port Huron with Detroit and all points in between. This would probably be just a fraction of the cost to building new |
Parkguy
Member
Username: Parkguy
Post Number: 231
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 10:01 pm: | |
I really believe we can have a more balanced system in a very short time: five years. Commuter rail at least to the airport and Ann Arbor from Detroit, light rail on a couple of key lines, and an improved bus system that is frequent and convenient... and still have plenty of room for cars. |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 1152
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 10:08 pm: | |
"Commuter Rail would probably work the best for this region, simply because there are railroad tracks already in place, and many of them sitting dormant. "
Dormant ... and rusty and unsafe. Sigh. I don't want to sound like a lobbyist for Detroit automakers. I do support public transit. I swear. |
Danny
Member
Username: Danny
Post Number: 7153
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 12:29 am: | |
This is something that Trainman wants to answer. |
Gene
Member
Username: Gene
Post Number: 68
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 6:45 am: | |
Correct me if I am wrong, but don't we have a commuter rail line that operates with service from Pontiac to Downtown with stops along the way in Birmingham, Royal Oak and Ferndale.
Check that,just found out its no longer running, lack of passengers could not justify continuation of service.
So, that would be a no for commuter rail. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2760
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 8:33 am: | |
commuter rail = long haul trips
light rail/subway/etc = local trips
These two are meant to complement each other, not compete against each other.
A commuter line would connect someone wanting to commute from Birmingham/Troy to downtown. A subway line would connect someone wanting to commute from Highland Park to downtown. |
Living_in_the_d
Member
Username: Living_in_the_d
Post Number: 90
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 9:26 am: | |
Yeah, Light rail. |
Waymooreland
Member
Username: Waymooreland
Post Number: 35
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 9:40 am: | |
I think commuter rail would be great -- connecting AA/airport/New Center and/or Pontiac/Troy/Royal Oak/New Center -- but light rail is a key to its success. If all of the commuter rail lines end at the New Center Amtrack station, we would need light rail to connect New Center to downtown and midtown. That's why that Woodward corridor light rail plan that's being floated is so crucial, in my opinion.
I really think we need both. With light rail alone, people will argue that it won't be used enough. WIth commuter rail alone, you can argue that it will force many riders to take a bus or a cab to work once they get to the station, which kind of defeats the purpose of having a rail system in the first place. |
Lifeinmontage
Member
Username: Lifeinmontage
Post Number: 63
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 27, 2008 - 8:55 pm: | |
i'd settle for anything that has its own right of way. little to none of the drivers would switch to mass transit that takes as much time sitting in traffic plus the extra time making regular stops along the way |
Birwood
Member
Username: Birwood
Post Number: 76
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 7:16 am: | |
As long as we have D-DOT and SMART working against each other, and until they merge, we will NEVER have a good mass transit system of anytype for this region. |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 4464
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 7:40 am: | |
None of these will work too well. We don't enough enough of a destination for workers. But downtown is enough of a destination if we consider the quantity of workers that do go there in addition to the large sums of people going there for events/pleasure and business travel.
So we need to go for commuter rail if you ask me, and we need to pinpoint the areas that do have the greatest quantity of downtown workers, and the direction from which the greatest inflow of visitors comes. It's obvious that this is Ann Arbor-METRO AIRPORT-Dearborn-downtown.
Other decent-size daily inflows come from Oakland County and Grosse Pointe. In the long term, we could do streetcars along Jefferson for the latter (it's worked well before), and for the former, another commuter rail system with MANY stations in the very long term. |
Fmstack
Member
Username: Fmstack
Post Number: 45
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 8:44 am: | |
I wonder what would happen if Trainman and Livernoisyard ever touched. My theory is that their equal but opposite forms of crazy transit fixation would cause a matter/antimatter explosion that would annihilate both of them (and make Detroityes such a better place).
(Message edited by fmstack on February 28, 2008) |
Texorama
Member
Username: Texorama
Post Number: 172
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 8:45 am: | |
I think the width of the arterial streets argues for surface light rail, possibly augmented by commuter rail in the Ann Arbor/I-94/Metro corridor. The arterials are heavily traveled even within the suburbs, and trains could generate useful nodes of retail development in the city. |
Bulletmagnet
Member
Username: Bulletmagnet
Post Number: 989
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 9:00 am: | |
I think Detroit is waiting for those transporter thingy-dos one sees on "Star Trek". Really, is there another city in the industrialized west with as primitive a transit system as Detroit? When you really think about it, shouldn’t we have the most advanced transportation system on Mother Earth? We are Detroit for Gods' sake, and we are so capable, and yet we rely on busses and taxies, or our own cars to get around. I don't have to tell any of you here at DY that the rest of the developing world has better mass transit then most of the U.S.A. much less Detroit. This is such a needless shame that such a powerful country as ours is so backward in this one area. If we don’t wake up, I fear we will die in our sleep. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3935
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 9:30 am: | |
Mackinaw, I tend to agree with you--to a point. There will have a be a fast, efficient way to get people from the train station into the CBD, which I tend to think would be light rail.
I also think that any justification for transit would be predicated on the need to get people to jobs--most of which are outside the city limits. With the development happening at the fairgrounds, the buildup of the riverfront, and the population density in places like New Center, Southwest, and Hamtramck, I think there definitely needs to be some form of light rail, preferably longitdinally separated from traffic. I think the DTOGS plan is going in the right direction.
Ultimately, there really needs to be some sort of coordinating authority, such as Chicago's RTA. Even though we have pretty good transit in the National Capital Area, the lack of any kind of coordinating authority has led to a real hodgepodge of planning and levels of service. |
Bulletmagnet
Member
Username: Bulletmagnet
Post Number: 992
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 11:13 am: | |
Danindc, that planning and authority you speak of needs to be kept from an inept a city government as we currently see in Detroit. The best system in the world would be driven into the ground quicker then you can say "Renaissance". |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3938
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 11:58 am: | |
quote:Danindc, that planning and authority you speak of needs to be kept from an inept a city government as we currently see in Detroit. The best system in the world would be driven into the ground quicker then you can say "Renaissance".
I agree wholeheartedly. I think I posted on another thread that part of DDOT's dysfunctionality is that it has no latitude or independence from the City's bureacracy and red tape. I can't think of another large city government that directly operates the transit system. |
Hybridy
Member
Username: Hybridy
Post Number: 221
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 12:41 pm: | |
Fixed light rail up woodward to Birmingham
Gratiot, Grand River, Michigan, Jefferson, 8 Mile, 16 Mile, Hall Road Corridors to be implemented later
Commuter Rail from Detroit to AA, Lansing, & Pontiac
High Speed from Detroit to Chicago
wishful thinking:
rail with trail line through dequindre cut
daylighting bloody run creek
citywide greenway system connecting wayne to oakland, macomb, and washtenaw county greenways |
Bulletmagnet
Member
Username: Bulletmagnet
Post Number: 994
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, February 28, 2008 - 12:54 pm: | |
I like the way you think, Hybridy. That scheme works for me, and I don't think something like this couldn't be built, over time. I say we vote on it now, before we awaken. |