 
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 3582
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 4:18 pm: |    |
Either one could also be interpreted as the actions of those frustrated and upset because they just don't succeed in getting their own way.
Not all visions are meant to be realized. |
Goat
Member
Username: Goat
Post Number: 10123
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 4:21 pm: | |
No it's not amazing but shouldn't we strive to make out lives and community better? Everyone gets burn-out and for someone who worked his ass off for the city and still felt that way speaks volume about the city. It has nothing to do with character. In fact I would say his character is much better than most who post on an anonymous board. |
Digitalvision
Member
Username: Digitalvision
Post Number: 588
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 4:22 pm: | |
I took it more of a regional rebuke than a city one...
The reality is that in many career fields the only way you're moving up is moving out because there are only so many opportunities in a given area. I know people who have changed cities a couple times for a better job, and they usually get a significant pay raise.
Calling someone's character into question for this is asinine. There are a lot of people on this board who don't live here or left for a time. It's the reality of life that now the average person according to the department of labor changes jobs 10 to 14 times by the time they're 38.
His kind of stick-to-it-ness is extremely rare nowadays... and the kind of divisive talk that someone who lives in the suburbs is part of the problem is just as bad. I know some suburbanites that suck - and others that love the city, spend money, invest - just don't happen to live within the boundaries.
Under this folly estimation that suburbanites are the problem, Peter Karmanos rejects the City Detroit because he doesn't live in the city.
Stereotypes is what got us in to this mess and stereotypes won't get us out of it. |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 3583
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 4:32 pm: | |
"No it's not amazing but shouldn't we strive to make out lives and community better?"
Yes, we should. The issue is what that constitutes. Some want to restore old buildings, others want to tear them down. Some want a good police force, others don't want to pay taxes. Some like sports arenas and nightclubs, others want parkland and neighborhoods. Some projects will potentially generate more revenue, other projects don't require anywhere near as much funding.
Find the balance. |
Dds
Member
Username: Dds
Post Number: 560
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 4:53 pm: | |
quote:DDS- you don't know what you're talking about. What have you done for the city lately?
Not much in the past week, but then again it's nobody's business.
I sure do wish I had coined the phrase DumbfuckistanYES.com like Peter did, though. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2744
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 4:57 pm: | |
Well, now we know who Peter is!
(Message edited by iheartthed on February 25, 2008) |
Swingline
Member
Username: Swingline
Post Number: 1035
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 5:00 pm: | |
Dds advised: quote:Obviously, none of you saw him the evening he found out about his job offer. He was a little more, shall I say, open about his feelings about Detroit the night he found out he was moving.
Had you folks heard that diatribe you'd be having a fit worse than when Sarah Klein wrote the article in the Metro Times about her move out of Detroit.
That's interesting, . . . and somewhat disappointing. Ms. Klein's F**k Off Detroit farewell was classless and mostly clueless. One hopes Mr. Zeiler could do better. But, indeed, highly talented and intelligent people sometimes have difficulty avoiding George Will-esque proclamations of opinion that usually conveniently serve to remind us lesser lights that we do not understand or we do not get "it." Who knows, perhaps we do not deserve some of these smart folks who are taking their skills elsewhere. Are we worthy? I still think so, despite our penchant for electing too many race baiters and plain ole' stupid people as our political leaders thereby testing everybody's patience to the limits.
Whatever. The bottom line is that Charlotte is lucky to have Mr. Zeiler and his talents. Detroit is poorer for the loss. And most of us are still glad to live here and will continue to find ways to make things better. There's no use in complaining. Time to get off the couch, or the porch, or wherever the Mayor told us to get off. Right? |
Caseyc
Member
Username: Caseyc
Post Number: 4
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 5:04 pm: | |
Hey Good Luck Skulker!
you give Charlotte a good ole fashioned Detroit-style Cockpunch courtesy of all of us here at DYes, ya'hear?! |
Outoftown
Member
Username: Outoftown
Post Number: 16
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 5:16 pm: | |
Hey you guys on the parasite- stop quoting me!
DDS- I think you are wrong!
leave me alone. |
Outoftown
Member
Username: Outoftown
Post Number: 17
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 5:17 pm: | |
This is typical Jungian manifestation. |
Charlottepaul
Member
Username: Charlottepaul
Post Number: 2350
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 7:17 pm: | |
"I just don't understand why Mr. Zeiler gets a free pass for essentially bailing out."
Seems as though very few get a pass for 'bailing out,' but if anyone deserves one, it is he.
"Instead, he has left the area completely, because there is absolutely no where and now way for him to succeed in metro Detroit."
Interestingly enough that is why most leave anywhere and go elsewhere. It rarely has little to do with your feelings or the weather for example, when you to choose to relocate. 99% of the time someone chooses where to live based on where he can make the most of his profession. That is in fact what built Detroit and is also Detroit's downfall.
"This is too bad! Does he still post here? Maybe he can can start a "Detroiter in Carolina" blog so we can see what life is like down there. I know I'd read it!"
Sure would be nice if there were one, but there really isn't anything close. Sure there are blogs, but none that carry the passion of DetroitYES! down here. Most people in Charlotte aren't even from the Carolinas. I imagine Detroit back decades ago in its years of strong immigration was like Charlotte is today--people almost literally streaming into the city from other states and beyond and setting up families and communities in a place that feels foreign. There is little here that makes me think of Detroit--no sense of the home that I still miss. If it weren't for this forum, I think that I would have lost much of my connection/interest in keeping up with what is going on in Detroit at this point in my life.
"...what makes metro Detroit malfunction."
What makes Detroit malfunction is what made Peter leave and everyone else that has left. There is a lot of Detroit malfunctions. The saddest part of all this news is that if Peter is not even willing to put up with it, why is anyone left in Detroit? |
Spidergirl
Member
Username: Spidergirl
Post Number: 336
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 7:39 pm: | |
So he gave a big F You to Detroit and moved on. Big deal.
As if none of you have? Every single one of you who voted for and continue to support Kwame and just about everyone else in this city's government have basically said F You to Detroit.
Those of you who live here and bitch and complain about everything from taxes and car insurance rates, to shitty schools without trying to do anything about it basically say F You to Detroit (myself included). |
East_detroit
Member
Username: East_detroit
Post Number: 1532
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 7:43 pm: | |
He was a really good history teacher, got people interested in Detroit.
http://ratemyprofessors.com/Sh owRatings.jsp?tid=540690
Never understood why he spent so much time arguing online with that Brian guy. |
Mortgageking
Member
Username: Mortgageking
Post Number: 41
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 7:44 pm: | |
Thank you for the wonderful perspective Spidergirl. Very insightful. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5372
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 7:58 pm: | |
Those professor evaluation ratings are almost always (if not, always always) based upon how high a grade a "student" gets for doing the least amount of, if any, work. The kids really **HATE** any profs who have pop quizzes and the like because then they might have to attend class once in a while... |
Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine
Post Number: 1978
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 10:26 pm: | |
I am impressed by the discussion on this thread. Sad to say, most of the time on threads like this one-- in some ways, another cause/effect diagnosis on Detroit-- numerous valuable insights are buried beneath a pile of not-quite-rational snarlers and shit-throwers wrestling with each other.
That has not been the case here. Other than Dds showing a burning need to let us know that Dds knows some things that we don't know (and that I personally could not possibly care less about,) the posts on this thread have been very civilized, and I am wondering if Sirrealone noticed that his? post #95, for which Sirrealone apologized in advance, did not elicit any tangible sense of offense herein.
I don't know anything about this guy Peter. I don't know anything about him as Peter, and I don't know who the hell he was in this forum. (Although I gather that I know what Screen Moniker he used, I can't say I remember any of his posts, so I have no opinion about Peter in here, either.)
However, this Pass Or No Pass issue is very presumptive by its nature, as we don't know what-all may have went into his decision to leave.
What I will say is that there is a wide difference between 1) leaving because you feel that all of your positive energy is being drowned by incompetence, opportunism, in-fighting, and apathy, and 2) leaving because it's a good career move and a better opportunity For You.
Even if I knew which one it was (or if it was both,) I still would not pass judgment, but some of you are wrangling with the Pass Or No Pass thing while not even agreeing on which one it was, and that makes for a pointless debate.
In any case, if this guy had any positive energy and/or good ideas, I'm sorry to hear that he's leaving, because every little bit really does count.
Saying that one person cannot make, or break, a city is actually a false statement. It's like saying that no one brick is vital to the wall. Still, if you keep losing bricks, even one at a time, soon enough the wall is gone.
(Message edited by ravine on February 25, 2008) |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 3591
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 11:11 pm: | |
If all the time is spent bickering about how to properly lay the bricks no progress can be made in any direction. |
Outoftown
Member
Username: Outoftown
Post Number: 20
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Monday, February 25, 2008 - 11:57 pm: | |
"If all the time is spent bickering about how to properly lay the bricks no progress can be made in any direction."
And so you have learned your lesson for today Grasshopper... |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 3593
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 12:07 am: | |
but that doesn't mean no one cares or that other ideas aren't as valid
maybe too many care - if Detroit was a nice, fat, one machine town like Chicago would that be preferable? |
1953
Member
Username: 1953
Post Number: 1546
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 12:09 am: | |
I love the reaction to my comments about character. All I was trying to say is that people should stay and fight for their city. The reactions by posters on this forum show me two things. Firstly, there are a lot of ex-Detroiters on the site. Secondly, we have a crisis of confidence, in which everyone thinks that leaving is a rationale choice. Would anyone from New York or Chicago or Los Angeles say something as absurd as, 'he had to leave; he couldn't succeed here?' |
Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup
Post Number: 3594
Registered: 06-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 12:11 am: | |
yes, they would, because people do leave those cities |
Cdwaters
Member
Username: Cdwaters
Post Number: 26
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 8:54 am: | |
Plenty of people leave those cities, especially New York and LA as both draw aspiring entertainers, (for example, or one of a hundred industries)many of whom never make it. The difference is for every person who leaves with their tail between their legs from those cities, they are replaced by one or more newcomers. Unfortunately there are hardly any people coming to Detroit to replace those that are leaving. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 3922
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 10:05 am: | |
I've had many heated arguments with Mr. Zeiler on these boards. I understand his passion for Detroit, but frankly, I think his passion finally bested his rationality. The man has been nothing but stubborn, closed-minded, and at times immature in his posts here. Detroit doesn't need his kind of old-guard thinking anymore.
With that said, I wish Mr. Zeiler the best of luck in Charlotte, and may it prove to be a challenging and rewarding experience. |
Oliverdouglas
Member
Username: Oliverdouglas
Post Number: 166
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 11:16 am: | |
^^^^
Wow! |
Detroitbill
Member
Username: Detroitbill
Post Number: 464
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 11:47 am: | |
I dont understand why people would be upset with him because he is leaving. He gave alot to Detroit, and decided he needed to move to accomplish personal goals. So, good luck to him and a big Thanks. Its all part of life. Its basically up to those of us left and those who come in, to pick up the slack left, incorporate our own ideas and move forward. I would hope that because one person leaves a city does not collapse,, there are many , many good minds out there to continue. The true fabric of most Detroiters does not change because of one person leaving. This happens to all cities all the time. |
Outoftown
Member
Username: Outoftown
Post Number: 24
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 12:27 pm: | |
Shouldn't this thread be titled, "One of Detroit's staunchest supporters, is gone :-("?
I mean, I didn't attend DPS or anything like that so I'm not an expert. Just asking. |
Craggy
Member
Username: Craggy
Post Number: 317
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 12:34 pm: | |
Why the comma? |
Ffdfd
Member
Username: Ffdfd
Post Number: 263
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 12:36 pm: | |
I vote for most staunchest. |
Outoftown
Member
Username: Outoftown
Post Number: 25
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 12:37 pm: | |
Excellent point Craggy, Thank you. Did you go to Cass Tech?
"One of Detroit's staunchest supporters is gone :-("
There, I feel better now. |
Mikem
Member
Username: Mikem
Post Number: 3593
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 26, 2008 - 12:48 pm: | |
Staunchiest |
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