  Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 1092 Registered: 06-2004 |
It’s always darkest before the dawn. I have theory that Detroit has been oppressed and held down by the power elite -- both black and white -- of the baby boomer and older generations, and that as these groups retire and die, we are on the cusp of a new golden age in which Detroit will revive with stunning speed. It seems to me that the generation of whites most principally responsible for abandoning Detroit are people age 60 and older. Due to its seniority, this cohort is firmly entrenched in economic and political power in our region. Think Brooks Patterson and the executives of most area businesses. And its antipathy toward the city and Blacks has led to stagnation and conflict. Case in point, Crains reports this week: "Attempts to bring suburban tenants to Detroit in recent years have failed when the employees of companies were eager to move to the city but top-level executives weren't as eager, said A.J. Weiner, a vice president with Jones Lang LaSalle." The "top-level executives": Those [bleeping] baby boomers and their parents and older siblings who lead the charge out of the city from 55-85. Hey man, so much for peace, love and understanding. This is also the generation most vehemently opposed to mass transit. I have seen so much other antidotal evidence of this. For example, I met a jr executive from a major ad agency in Warren (not hard to guess) who complained bitterly about having to work in Warren and expressed utter dismay that the senior executives could see nothing wrong with the location. Maybe I am dreaming, but I think or at least hope that we are on the cusp of an explosive generational change and that like a damn breaking, we will see our problems evaporate when a new generation of 30 and 40 year olds takes power. I say evaporate because I believe firmly that our "problems" in the form of the flight of capital, employers and residents from the city are 99% mental attitude and racism and that if the attitude and racism are reversed, the city would prosper. You need go no further than Chicago circa 1975-1990 to see an example of what I'm talking about. I think there is a flip side to this and that is the combative left wing militancy of the senor black leadership, like the guys in the city council dressed in African hats, as if they were actually going out of their way to repel corporate America. On that front too, we see the emergencr of a new generation of leaders like Barak Obama (ironically a real-live first generation African-American sans the funny hat) that moves past the obsolete and no-longer effective models of confrontation, grievance and victimhood. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 1504 Registered: 12-2005 |
Woe are we, we're all just victims and all of our problems are the fault of the previous generation, "the man" is keeping us oppressed, yadda-yadda-yadda..... "Antidotal evidence" - you better not call the Poison Control Center asking for an anecdote. | ||
Rel Member Username: Rel Post Number: 375 Registered: 02-2008 |
I'm not saying this to be disrespectful to you, but I can't figure out half the stuff you're saying. What is the point of your thread? Part of the "Soundbite Generation", REL | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 889 Registered: 08-2007 |
boy, those Boomers ... just always causing trouble. | ||
Sludgedaddy Member Username: Sludgedaddy Post Number: 15 Registered: 01-2008 |
Put down that Gameboy, kid and go outside and play. | ||
Redvetred Member Username: Redvetred Post Number: 188 Registered: 04-2007 |
"... I think or at least hope that we are on the cusp of an explosive generational change and that like a damn breaking, we will see our problems evaporate when a new generation of 30 and 40 year olds takes power." Are you kidding us? Kwame is 37 years old! If he is typical of your "new generation", then even Heaven won't help Detroit. | ||
Ggores Member Username: Ggores Post Number: 25 Registered: 10-2007 |
Crains... sheesh. no wonder. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 1505 Registered: 12-2005 |
Rel, I think Ray is trying to use an Color me unconvinced. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 2091 Registered: 12-2005 |
Blaming the boomers on Detroit's woes is placing simple blame on a complex problem. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 499 Registered: 09-2006 |
I think your points have some merit, with each generation is a general change in attitude. Life does evolve constantly. I don't know if I would blame the baby boomers for all of Detroits problems though.. They are complex, situational and many of those boomers tried very hard to keep the city and burbs glued together but the forces that be were way to strong to combat. I do believe in being an optimist when it comes to Detroit. At least in the Downtown area the change in 10 years is nothing short of phenominal by Detroit standards. The attitude amongst many is also changing with it. It is that energy that all need to capture to move forward. The neighborhoods are the next major stumbling block along with the educational system. However there is a real attitude among many to not quit and to keep going. I do believe in time , with the present and younger generations our city and its surrounding communities will prosper. Nothing has ever been easy for Detroit, and it will continue to be that way. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 3640 Registered: 11-2005 |
Well, if anecdotal evidence is to be submitted, I have met white people in that age bracket who are happily living in the city, caring for historic homes, working for preservation groups etc. It is just total bigotry to say everyone of such and such a group is the same. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 500 Registered: 09-2006 |
I agree Pam, there are still many long time Detroiters, both black and white who continue be happily living in the city and participating in preserving homes, institutions and interest groups. Those are the people I personally view as role models for us, they essentially put their money and their lives where there mouths are. They could easily live anywhere. | ||
Rel Member Username: Rel Post Number: 380 Registered: 02-2008 |
Right on, Pam. Why is it that whenever there's a problem, it's human nature to place blame? I would rather just tackle the issue head-on instead of wasting my time, figuring out who I can point a finger at. Ray, with all due respect, your argument is composed of generalities. By the way: "This is also the generation most vehemently opposed to mass transit." Uh, this entire metro area is vehemently opposed to public transit. This is also the younger generation who grew up without seeing an example of a decent and widely-used public transit system. Many in my generation (myself excluded) had mom & dad buy them a car at 16 or 17. They know no other way. When I lived in Huntington Woods and commuted to WDET for an internship, I commuted on the bus down Woodward. When I told my friends this, they were amazed, and asked me "what was it like", as if I went on daily African safaris or a trip to Peru. The bus was such a mystery to them, or just a wild rumor. (Message edited by rel on March 11, 2008) | ||
Bragaboutme Member Username: Bragaboutme Post Number: 43 Registered: 02-2008 |
I agree also Pam, I think what he is trying to get at is there was a critical point in detroits history where serious development was lost just by the way of thinking by people who for what ever business reasons tookoff and left the citys' core, but didn't leave the state they moved right across the border i.e. southfield, warren, troy ect, taking with them the value of pride and starting a trend of old vs new. I do understand that many people have stayed black and white, but I think he meant it from a business stand point. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 4097 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think that it was the generation just ahead of the Boomers that started and accelerated the flight from Detroit. Even so, the generations love to squabble. Gen X calls the Boomers "failed potential" or "all talk"... Boomers see Gen X as a bunch of video-game-addicted, short-attention-span slackers. If the Boomers can be the "Worst Generation," then Gen X can be the "Ritalin Generation." It's all ridiculous. Such generalizations really do nothing positive. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 2011 Registered: 07-2004 |
Actually, in the research I saw, the tipping point for attitudes about cities is 40 years old. Those older than 40 are more likely to fear and hate cities. Those younger than 40 are less likely to fear and hate cities. That sort of thing. | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 4 Registered: 03-2008 |
That generation is just so big. I agree that it's the generations that got to see Detroit go downhill that are the most negative. But, you have to understand that these people lost everything they felt connected to. They lost their childhood homes and sometimes first homes and apartments, the parks they used to play at, the movie theaters and the general stores. Some even had to see the once close nit communities become crime infested dumping grounds. It must also be stressed how much closer neighborhoods were back then. These people lost because of previous generations mistakes, so it's not their fault either. If the current generation actually cared, and was fighting for any cause in Michigan instead of leaving the state, then things would be much different. It's up to us to turn things around and save the last generation, as well as the future ones. It's the young ones who can take their parents to a ball game at Comerica, then over to show them their new apartment at Kales without getting harassed on the way, or the young family that moves into Boston Edison and shows them they actually keep up their homes. The young people that can take them to shop and gamble at Greektown or... the list goes on and on. Enough of us together have all the power we need to weather (or enter) the storms and turn things around. In my opinion it's our turn, and it's up to us. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 3641 Registered: 11-2005 |
quote: Even from a business stand point he is wrong, people like Penske, Illitch and Karmanos are all over 55 to name a few we hear of all the time. I am sure there are others. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 596 Registered: 12-2006 |
Sean of Detroit, They didn't "lose" anything. They chose to abandon it. In 1967, many of the boomers were already grown up or at least in high school. They made the choice to leave and never come back. Even with the problems at the time, Detroit was still a strong, vibrant city with intact neighborhoods and quality public services. If they would have shown the backbone and toughness their parents showed during the Depression/WWII era, and stayed, Detroit would still be an incredible American success story of a city. Instead, at the first sign of trouble, they ran like cowards. (Message edited by el_jimbo on March 11, 2008) | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 5543 Registered: 10-2003 |
You've managed to oversimplify that beyond belief. This thread is headed straight to the Hall Of Failed. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 3999 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Like the backbone people showed when they fled for the suburbs after the 1942 riots. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 2012 Registered: 07-2004 |
Dan, 1942 was the Sojourner Truth confrontation. The big race riot was in 1943. Are you being facetious about whites fleeing then? | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 2845 Registered: 01-2005 |
I've always been amused at African Americans who don African garb. If it makes them feel good about themselves, well, then they should do it. Usually it just looks dumb, though. I'm half German, but Jesus! I wouldn't be caught dead in Leiderhosen. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 2014 Registered: 07-2004 |
I'm half Canadian, but I wouldn't be caught dead in a mountie uniform!  | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 1889 Registered: 03-2006 |
the creative class will save us!! | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1749 Registered: 09-2007 |
Preach on El_jimbo | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 611 Registered: 11-2003 |
Ray, you're right on. El_jimbo, you're off the mark a bit. There were a lot more factors than just "choosing" and being "cowards." For instance, you couldn't get fair value to replace your property in the city, whereas you could in the suburbs. Many insurance companies wouldn't let business rebuild in the city after the riots, nor insure their expansion (or spike the ball and price it so high to make it impossible to do so). So, when it was time to expand, to the burbs they went. And the exodus was happening WAY before 1967 - heck, it started right after WWII when the soldiers coming back couldn't spend their FHA dollars in the city for the most part. Detroit was already declining by the time 1967 happened. The jobs were already leaving en masse for the 'burbs and outlaying areas. Not to say things like race, etc. didn't play in - they most certainly did. But it's not just ONE thing. You don't get things to where they are now for one reason. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 597 Registered: 12-2006 |
Digitalvision, By no means do I think it was that simple. However, I used the riots as an example of the "worst of times" for the city during the early years of boomer adulthood. Even after that, the city was mostly intact yet the boomer generation chose to abandon it anyway. Also, the "fair value" argument was a self perpetuated prophecy. If the boomers wouldn't have left in the droves they did, property values would have held. However, when so many people put up their homes for sale all at once, it creates a buyer's market and drives down the price. There were a variety of reasons why Detroit declined in the mid part of the 20th century. However, the biggest reason is that white baby boomers simply gave up on the city and left. | ||
Detroitnerd Member Username: Detroitnerd Post Number: 2016 Registered: 07-2004 |
But why did they leave? It was the freeway expansions, GI Bill loans, industrial policies, etc. that made their moves easy and cheap, while those hard-done-by often paid for it all! | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 5545 Registered: 10-2003 |
It was also the fact that they had money from their good paying automotive jobs, and could afford to chase the American dream. It was the fact that you could have electricity and running water without having to live in the city. There are many factors. All this oversimplifying is frustrating, and shows a lack of understanding about our region. Try reading this: http://www.amazon.com/Origins- Urban-Crisis-Inequality-Prince ton/dp/0691058881 |
