  Southwestsaavy Member Username: Southwestsaavy Post Number: 6 Registered: 03-2008 |
Is anyone concerned about having a residential maritime school for troubled youth on Belle Isle? Part of the beauty of the park is that there are no homes or residents. It is a recreational spot. Besides, the Friends of Detroit Rowing have been in the building sense it was built and on the River since 1839. (Making it the oldest club in the US.) However, The City owns the building and has not committed to giving the group a long term lease (hence their inability to make major repairs) Can't the school go to Fort Wayne? They have been looking for a use for the space, and seems a perfect spot for residential living on the water and for a school. | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 354 Registered: 03-2005 |
Agreed, or.. Maheras Park, Alfred Brush Park, Angel Park, and Henderson Park all seem like much more appropriate places for such a school. The costs to rehab the building into this use are probably more than new construction. | ||
Southwestsaavy Member Username: Southwestsaavy Post Number: 7 Registered: 03-2008 |
I do not think the plan is to rehab. The inside really isn't suitable to residential living. However, the cost to demolish the building is estimated much higher than the rehab costs. I use the Island for activity and recreation daily. A school on the island seems odd, and not particularly well thought out. | ||
Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 163 Registered: 02-2007 |
It won't happen. It will fall apart just like the police headquarters moving into the MCS. | ||
Ilovedetroit2 Member Username: Ilovedetroit2 Post Number: 1 Registered: 03-2008 |
I think the idea is a good one. I am sailor on the Great Lakes Freighters and also serving in the Coast Guard. There is a strong need for qualified people on the Great Lakes and deep sea. From what I can tell this school is going to be modeled after the state maritime academies, these are quasi-military colleges where students earn a degree and also a license as a merchant marine officer and the option to become officers in the Navy or Coast Guard. This school would be to the benefit of the maritime industry as well as the students who attend there. I do agree that Fort Wayne would be a perfect campus for such a school. It is also home to the US Army Corps of Engineers, which has a strong hand in the maritime industry on the Great Lakes. (Message edited by ilovedetroit2 on March 18, 2008) | ||
Johnberk Member Username: Johnberk Post Number: 79 Registered: 11-2003 |
I think the newspaper's term of "Wayward Youth" might be misleading. As already mentioned on the other thread regarding this topic, the entrance requirements for working on Great Lakes vessels has become much more strict in recent years, where even one single DUI conviction that is years old makes you ineligible for employment. So its not likely the proposed school is going to have a bunch of hooligans with records and convictions. As for Fort Wayne, the current down there is pretty swift, which would make it difficult to handle and launch small boats used for training. The area by the DBC is more protected and has much less current, thus is more suitable for using / handling small sailboats & lifeboats. | ||
Detx Member Username: Detx Post Number: 117 Registered: 07-2007 |
I don't understand why so many educational developments have to always be geared toward or centered around "troubled youth". It just seems that every time I hear about a new school being built (or announced, more realistically) it's for the disenfranchised. Is it just me? | ||
Sailor_rick Member Username: Sailor_rick Post Number: 203 Registered: 02-2004 |
It makes a positive sound bite for the six o' clock news but could the Lakes industry really promise that many jobs? The ships today are bigger but the crew’s smaller. If the school was for unlicensed crew, there’s rarely ever a lack of bodies available for “entry” level jobs, such as deckhands or porters (“galley drudges”). All you need is your Z-Card, a Coast Guard issued document to sail, which as Johnberk pointed out, may not be that easy for “troubled youth” to obtain. When I was issued mine in the late 70’s, so long as you had no drug convictions or weren’t a “Wobblie” (member of the IWW or International Workers of the World, really. I was probably one of the few people who even knew what they were.) you’d be granted one. It didn’t matter if you were a violent felon and alcoholism and DUI's were part of the culture, which made that life interesting. On the other hand unlike now, back then, you needed a letter of employment from a shipping company or union to get your card. Mine was through the Seafarers International Union school in Piney Point, Maryland, which now as then, often served the purpose of setting “troubled youth” on a course of life on that sure and steady path of the sea. Along with basic ship-board skills, they had programs that assisted high-school drop outs in obtaining their GEDs. I remember tutoring some of my fellow “Trainees” in their course work. It lent me a little taste of the frustrations and joys a big-city teacher must face. I can imagine the reaction from the crews of the Lakers to this idea. The “Lakes” are incredibly insular and tight knit with the majority of crew from the smaller port towns such as Alpena/ Rogers City, Duluth, Algonac, etc. Although I’m a Michigan native, since I originally sailed deep-sea and was from the Detroit (shudder) area, it took years to be accepted. Does this make them narrow-minded, ole’ boys? That’s not for me to judge, but unlike sailing deep sea, where I had to secure my valuables inside a padlocked locker inside my locked room; it was never required on the Lakes. A great idea if it came to pass. Maybe there’s a nobler purpose for the Bob Lo Boat yet. | ||
Ilovedetroit2 Member Username: Ilovedetroit2 Post Number: 3 Registered: 03-2008 |
I hear what you are saying sailor rick but things are a bit different now, When applying for your MMD (merchant marine document) and also the TWIC cards the coast guard has been doing extensive background checks into individuals that apply for such cards. Also the industry has stepped up its "image" companies are less tolerant of drinking and drug use. Many firms and the coast guard have instituted random drug testing. Things that individuals have done in their past (drinking and driving convictions) may prohibit them getting an MMD and if not it will certainly make it difficult for those individuals when a US flagged vessel enters a Canadian port. What John says is true about the currents near fort wayne, but then that opens the possibility of using the Fort Wayne campus (or at least part of it) for academics and housing and using the old Belle Isle boat house as the area where they conduct their U/W training. However the nice thing about Belle Isle is; if these students are going to be mostly "bad apples" (for lack of a better word), the school being located on Belle Isle takes them out of that environment and is easier to keep an eye on such students, Fort Wayne does not provide that great of a social exit for these students to get away from the activities that has labled them so. (Message edited by ilovedetroit2 on March 19, 2008) | ||
Southwestsaavy Member Username: Southwestsaavy Post Number: 10 Registered: 03-2008 |
What about the 350 people that use the Boat Club Daily for Rowing? What about keeping Belle Isle a place for recreation? As a Daily, often twice daily user of the Island, I would hate to see people begin living on it. Not against the concept of an academy, but not on the island. We have a tendency to ruin the things that make living in the City worth it. | ||
Tkshreve Member Username: Tkshreve Post Number: 286 Registered: 07-2006 |
Welcome to the forum Ilovedetroit2! "The ships today are bigger but the crew’s smaller." This comment has me thinking about something. The water levels are incredibly low right now, and to build on that, the river becomes very shallow on that side of the island. Seeing that boats have not been docked at the DBC in some time, won't the lake level in that area pose a problem for bigger ships and vessels. The sculls have just about zero draw,but I don't think Maritime Coast Guards boats enjoy that leisure. I assume dredging is an option if there isn't already a canal dredged there. How costly could this be and is anyone extremely familiar with the Lake bottom there? | ||
Sailor_rick Member Username: Sailor_rick Post Number: 204 Registered: 02-2004 |
ILD2-The difficulty a “troubled youth” may have in being issued a Z-Card now as compared to “back in the day” (I was still sailing during the stricter regulations, “What hath Captain Hazelwood wrought?) is precisely my point. If they are already in the legal “system” it may be impossible to get one. And I’m sure you are aware how the CG will bend rules. If they’re juvenile offenses, that may be different. TK- I’m sure a recent chart would have the depth. At Piney Point most of our seamanship was dockside or classroom. Very little was on the water, other than tooling 40’s vintage crab boats around the estuary to get a feel for holding a course (The facility was originally built for torpedo testing during WW II. I don’t think those drafty barracks had been weatherproofed since then either). Also, we had detailed lifeboat instructions using actual lifeboats lowered from davits (holders/launchers) secured to the docks. Belle Isle would be a perfect sheltered, shallow-water bay for lifeboat instruction. Yeah, yeah, I know in the real world you don’t have a choice to the sea when you’re abandoning ship but… | ||
Ilovedetroit2 Member Username: Ilovedetroit2 Post Number: 9 Registered: 03-2008 |
I know well the CG's willingness to bend the rules, mostly in a time of need (war). When the war first started the Coast Guard was looking at the State Maritime Academies and taking Juniors and Seniors giving them an AB ticket and setting them sail on MSC vessels. I have sailed with people who I did not feel should have gotten a MMD. I have a unique look at the industry since I sail in the Merchant Marines and am also a reserve in the Coast Guard. | ||
Sailor_rick Member Username: Sailor_rick Post Number: 205 Registered: 02-2004 |
IL2, Pulling cadets to man MSC ships, NS? That's some on the job training. Even though it's been over five years since I sailed, I'll occasionally get a message from a company for a berth. I'll tease the Mrs.', "I'm just stepping out for bread and milk." In my 22 years, I sailed with some real winners (deep sea) left over from the 'Nam era "Emergency shipping" rules. In many aspects I welcomed a few of the tighter regs yet the hard-core addicts and alkies always seemed to find a way to beat 'em. |
