 
Jrvass
Member
Username: Jrvass
Post Number: 521
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 12:50 am: |    |
Jjaba,
Is there anything in the Jewish Calendar that would explain why someone would alternately list either 6/19/1897 or 6/30/1897 as their birthdate?
He was born in NY and his parents were Jewish Russian immigrants (1895). So far, a birth certificate eludes us. Perhaps he was born at home with the help of a midwife. Not uncommon back then.
Could this 11-day discrepancy be due to a Jewish calendar quirk or a Russian calendar or language translation problem? (Not that you would know anything Russian, I just toss that out there as a possibility for comment by someone who may know.)
Thanks for your help. |
Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 2866
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 12:00 pm: | |
I think the Russians didn't adopt the Gregorian calendar, which we did in 1752, until the revolution in 1917. The difference was eleven days. Your stated difference is eleven days. Thus the difference.
Ooops, excuse me for jumping in, Jjaba. I never much was the kid who jumped up in class saying, "Ooo..ooo...pick me, I know....", but maybe I'm getting that way at last in my twilight years.  |
Sarge
Member
Username: Sarge
Post Number: 855
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 12:19 pm: | |
Jrvass,
We have the same problem in my family. I think it is the result of a host of causes. Russian calendar vs. Jewish calendar vs. Gregorian calendar. Or just being born in a shtetl out in the middle of nowhere.
My grandfather and his siblings never knew what their correct birthdays were and usually just picked a day around that time to celebrate. The documents he had going back to his childhood didn't help much either. |
Jrvass
Member
Username: Jrvass
Post Number: 523
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 1:31 pm: | |
Ray,
That would explain the difference! His WWI draft registration and death certificate list 6/19/1897, yet most other records list 6/30/1897.
Thanks for your help! |
Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 2869
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 3:56 pm: | |
Glad to help,Jrvass. As one who also has been able to figure out Quaker dates prior to 1752, that was an easy one.
(Um...don't even THINK of asking 'what were Quaker dates?'. It's a nightmare.) |
Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 6193
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 3:58 pm: | |
Jrvass, thanks. Sounds like the answer.
Ray1936 is a Westsider who grew up in a United Nations of a neighborhood, so cross-cultural matters are in his blood. jjaba's father was born in Ukraine, and we never were sure of his birthdate either.
jjaba, Westside Bar Mitzvah Bukkor. |
Sarge
Member
Username: Sarge
Post Number: 856
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 4:03 pm: | |
Jjaba,
What was the name of your father's shtetl? My grandfather told me he was from Yaltushkov. I've also seen documents stating the family was from Jallachcovo. |
Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 6195
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 4:18 pm: | |
Bougiefka, Ukraine near Umon.
Beet sugar growing region, midway Kiev to Odessa near the RR line. They arrived Ellis Island, USA in 1913 on SS Pretoria from Hamburg, Germany.
jjaba, Westside Torah Bukkor. |
Steve
Member
Username: Steve
Post Number: 198
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 4:28 pm: | |
Sarge
It's very possible that Yaltushkov was the Yiddish pronunciation of Jallachcovo. Things like that happened all the time. |
Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 6196
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 7:28 pm: | |
They do sound similar, eh.
That sounds like our debates about Detroit. (DEE-troit, De-troit, de'-troit, de-troi-it).
It depends if you are English, French, American, or Coleman Young, eh.
Warsaw or Varshava?
Missouri or Missour-a.
United States or Estados Unidos.
jjaba, Westside Torah Bukkor. |
Alan55
Member
Username: Alan55
Post Number: 1339
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 8:50 pm: | |
The U.P. or da Yoopers. |
Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936
Post Number: 2871
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 8:54 pm: | |
I always pronounced the "S" in Illinois. It was only recently that I discovered I was saying it wrong all these years. |
Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell
Post Number: 4627
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 12:01 am: | |
...and don't say Wehsconsin if you don't want to be badgered in that state. |
Jrvass
Member
Username: Jrvass
Post Number: 526
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 12:07 am: | |
Ouch! Bad Pun Alert! |
Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 6199
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 11:37 am: | |
jjaba going to Lakeland, Fla. this week for Tigers games. Any advice on the ballpark, parking, restaurants, other attractions?
jjaba, Tigers Fan, first time to Spring Training. |
Pamequus
Member
Username: Pamequus
Post Number: 157
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 3:14 pm: | |
Not a heck of a lot to in Lakeland other than watch the Tigers....but 30 miles west is Tampa with an overabundance of fun things to do, nice beaches and great restaurants. |
D_mcc
Member
Username: D_mcc
Post Number: 422
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 4:20 pm: | |
Jjaba...Lakeland is also 30 minutes from Orlando. I'm going to the Tigers/Braves Thursday evening at Wide World of Sports at Disney.
Joker Marchmant is VERY nice, if you haven't bought your tickets already, try to get at least one game out on the berm in the outfield. Great view, lots of sun, nice breeze, good price...and a great ball game. Parking is ample and its only about 5 minutes off of I-4. You'll enjoy it. |
Sarge
Member
Username: Sarge
Post Number: 857
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 5:37 pm: | |
quote:Bougiefka, Ukraine near Umon.
Beet sugar growing region, midway Kiev to Odessa near the RR line. They arrived Ellis Island, USA in 1913 on SS Pretoria from Hamburg, Germany.
Small world, Jjaba. It appears my family was from about 50 miles or so away. They also worked in a sugar beet factory before coming to the states via Ellis Island in 1921 on the Olympic from Cherbourg, France. |
Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 6201
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 6:01 pm: | |
Sarge, amazing similarity. I like you already, landsman.
Another small detail, our family were victims of a pogrom. So they left in a hurry, as they say.
People were getting burned out of their houses.
Not a pretty situation.
They rode by ox cart, then trains to Hamburg.
Thanks for the info. on Lakeland.
Go Tigers.
jjaba. |
Sarge
Member
Username: Sarge
Post Number: 858
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 6:35 pm: | |
There are actually more, Jjaba. My family's shtetl was also the victim of numerous pogroms. My family once found my grandfather's brother lying unconscious in the street after the either the red or white army generals came through with their ragtag armies. They also remembered the local schoolteacher being decapitated. They said that when the roving armies would come into town, the elders would walk out and greet them with bread and salt. If the generals accepted the bread and salt and any other tribute, they hoped for the best. If the generals declined the gifts, they knew they were going to suffer. |
Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 6202
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 8:06 pm: | |
With these stories of oppression, it is no wonder the immigrants aboard ships raced to the side to see the Statue of Liberty in New York Harbor, sometimes causing a huge ship to list into port. jjaba's family were "tired and poor, yearning to breathe free", riding steerage for a week to get to America.
They had advance relatives in Chicago and settled in the Douglas Park neighborhood.
jjaba. |
Jrvass
Member
Username: Jrvass
Post Number: 528
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 9:08 pm: | |
Jjaba,
Enjoy the Tigers in Lakeland! I see many highlights on TV of fans gathering up home run balls on the left field hill.
May your days there be sunny and warm!
James |
Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 6203
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 10:29 pm: | |
Thanks James. jjaba will send in full reports.
jjaba hopes they serve up a decent home-style coney island with a Vernor's. Hopefully, they'll pass the Vernor's and Coney test. jjaba would settle for a nice juicy Kosher Polish dog, also.
jjaba, Westside Tigers Fan. |
The_rock
Member
Username: The_rock
Post Number: 2186
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 7:43 pm: | |
jjaba--If you don't make it to the Fantasy of Flight Air Museum in nearby Polk City, you will be missing one of the best air museums in the US of A. Check out the B-26 Marauder, one of so VERY few left on static display, a rare bird to say the least.
Not inexpensive, but quality personified from the time you first enter the museum and climb aboard the B-17 and go on a very realistic bomb run. Realistic-you would think you are at 25,000 feet. |
Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba
Post Number: 6206
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 9:24 pm: | |
The Rock, jjaba will make the effort but we are scheduled tight for baseball games.
jjaba is meeting with Jim Leland and ownership of the Tigers about fans who come with dress shoes, no socks, smoking cigars in box seats after work, and who live in Grosse Pointe. We are pushing to ban pink Polo golf shirts too.
jjaba, Tigers Fan. |
The_rock
Member
Username: The_rock
Post Number: 2188
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 5:43 am: | |
You just worry about putting together a pitching staff, my friend. We are not there yet. |