  7051 Member Username: 7051 Post Number: 81 Registered: 02-2006 |
After everyone here is done debating who has the cheapest lunch, best pizza, what to do with trillions of dollars the city wins in the ultimate universe lotto, etc, etc., perhaps you can send an email or letter, or more importantly visit the our king, um...er... mayor's office, and our clowncil's office and present them these facts and ask what will be done immediately..... 1990 ALL Detroit Police personnel 5203 2000 " " " 4804 http://www.nlpoa.org/Office_Ju stice_Program_Police_Departmen ts_In_Large_Cities_1990_2000_N LPOA.pdf See pg. 10 of this document. 2007 ALL DPD personnel 3,744 http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/Po rtals/0/docs/budgetdept/2007-0 8_Redbook/CompleteAppropriatio ns/Financials%20Redbook%2007-0 8%20Final_numbered.pdf see page 115 of the budget. (page 2 of the nlpoa link) 1990 sworn DPD personnel 4,595 2000 " " 4,154 2007 " " aprox. 3100-3200 see the budget link pages 110-128 1990 DPD sworn personel per 100,000 427 2000 " (Population dropped, DPD didn't rise 437 2007 (900000/3,200) 281 See the NLOA link. Read the whole thing, it's an easy read. Almost all big cities added cops during the 1990's, Detroit did not. All recorded huge crime reductions, Detroit did not. Get the point! Let's discuss the Fire dept..... Suppression Division only 1978 1,850 over 90 engine, ladders, etc. 1983-05 1,350 72-77 engines, ladders,squads 2007 1,083 budgeted (page 38 of the budget link) 1,025 actually on payroll due to city's current failure to hire in 4yrs.; 66 engines/ladders 2008 under 1,000 actually working due to high injury rate; 51-60 engines/ladders on any given day to lack of personnel/hiring/failure to use overtime that is in the budget(basically a PERSONAL ISSUE between the city and the Dept.) What is even worse is that after all this the DFD can put 21-25 people at a fire, yet most suburbs can only put 6-14! DFD's current problem is its response time when the system is at peak usage(35% of the time). Most of this can be alleviated by eliminating personnel shortages which close engine/ladders as they must have 4 people on them to remain open (national safety standard that Detroit actually adheres to(court ordered)). Once up to 66 engines/ladders, the rest can be fixed by reopening 5 ladders/engines that were closed in 2005, bringing the total to 72 which provides geographical safety to all. It's a crap shoot currently, if the system is not busy you win with 21-25 in 4-6 minutes. If its busy(could be at ANY given time), you lose and you die! http://firegeezer.com/2008/02/ 29/detroits-firehouse-roulette -fails-again/ http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20080229/COL 27/802290345/1007/NEWS05 EMS 1970's 24-26 ambulances 2008 24-26(except for low manpower/equipment repair;could be 18-22) At the advent of Detroit ems (1972) it was recommended that the city would need 22 ambulances for good response time. After being sued extensively around 2000, independent studies showed that 42-46 ambulances would be needed to meet national standards after accounting for geography and calls for service). Calls have almost tripled since 1972, (49,000 to 135,000(2008)). And don't even think about fixing this by having firefighters run medical calls as this 2000 article suggests. Not unless the FD is beefed up to about 1500-1600 in suppression alone, not under 1,000 as is currently the case. Even the downtown residents will be dead with 12-25 response times instead of 4-6 minutes! You are not immune! http://www.metrotimes.com/edit orial/story.asp?id=258 | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 1995 Registered: 09-2006 |
I'm sure the mayor and the council are well aware of these facts. Most citizens however are not. Send all of this research on to one of the news outlets in the city and if they think its worthwhile they will air or print it and then the people will know, which is needed if you want something changed. | ||
Tompage Member Username: Tompage Post Number: 57 Registered: 01-2005 |
If you look at the number of officers per 100,000 population you may decide that Detroit is NOT under-policed. In fact, Detroit is close to the top in the number of officers per residents. Many cities have half the number of officers per 100,000 residents that the D has. IMO Detroit doesn't need more officers. In part, it needs better officers, higher standards for hiring, better training, better management, more technology, more civilization (much cheaper than sworn), less political influence, less impact of seniority on promotions, and modernized work rules. And the entry-level pay needs to be competitive. A new Detroit officer starts at about $30,000 per year. LA (with which I am most familiar) starts officers at $60,000. Yes, I know the cost of living (actually housing) is higher in LA, but not by that much. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 11830 Registered: 12-2003 |
I think we need to weigh those figures against the number of TPC we've got here in the D. That would be Thugs Per Capita, for the uninitiated. | ||
Tompage Member Username: Tompage Post Number: 58 Registered: 01-2005 |
Good point! We'll also have to weigh those figures against the number of officers assigned to the mayor's Executive Protection Unit. | ||
Masterblaster Member Username: Masterblaster Post Number: 148 Registered: 03-2005 |
7051, thank you sharing those statistics. I have already copied and pasted your first post on a Microsoft Word document, and I will read all of the linked webpages tomorrow. I agree that public safety is the number one issue holding back Detroit - more important than the economy, bad public schools, lame public transportation, high taxes/insurance, and poor city services. If people feel safe coming to Detroit, than a lot of those aforementioned problems would be solved directly or indirectly. I don't know why these folks on this forum haven't responded more to this thread. Most are suburbanites/out-of-towners who left/won't live here because of the crime/public safety. CRIME IS THE NO 1 ISSUE! | ||
Magnasco Member Username: Magnasco Post Number: 249 Registered: 10-2003 |
I have said this in another thread, but in all fairness these numbers have to be weighed against the absolutely unacceptable daily absentee rates in these departments. I can't remember the exact figure, but between all categories of leave I believe it came to something like 40%. We don't need more police and fire fighters, we need them to show up to work and do their jobs. In any industry other than these, even a 20% absenteeism would result in replacement of the offenders. I worked in restaurants for years and waiters and waitresses and bartenders post better job attendance records than that. (Message edited by Magnasco on March 20, 2008) | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 680 Registered: 02-2007 |
Magnasco - sounds like you're referencing contractual "sick days." Very generous benefits, I'll agree, but some have said that these benefits were a way of compensating for the relatively low pay for civil servants. I'm sure that none here want a lazy and undependable civil service, but do you want a police force where the officers are 'always on?' Time for decompression is important, for their effectiveness and our safety. | ||
Hamtramike Member Username: Hamtramike Post Number: 491 Registered: 12-2003 |
Maybe more sick days are the result of overworked and short-staffed departments. Injuries and recovery times increase greatly when you are short-staffed and doing more work than even federal guidelines allow. | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 2021 Registered: 09-2006 |
"I can't remember the exact figure, but between all categories of leave I believe it came to something like 40%" Wow if true that is pretty pathetic. Maybe the city needs to be very harsh the next time the contract with the union is re negotiated because officers who are absent often need to be fired just like at any other job. The chances of the happening though are slim no ones got balls around here. | ||
7051 Member Username: 7051 Post Number: 85 Registered: 02-2006 |
Firefighters earn 10 hours sick per month and an additional reserve bank of 50 hours per year which equate to about one 24 hour day that could be potentially taken every two months. 98% of firefighters do not use this much sick time. There is a SMALL amount of incentive pay that is given after about 5 years accumulation of time for not using sick days each year. We do have days which are scheduled off which allows us to "only" work a 48 hour work week if you average all of our days for the year. This 48 hours is paid at straight time at an "incredibly" high rate of about $20.50 per hour after 5.9 years seniority. We do get 8 work days of vacation per year (24 hour days). Many firefighters actually sell these vacation days back to the city and work the days! After about 7 years one can earn approximately 1-2 extra personal days off per year, this increases to about 2-3 after 18-25 years. About 60-90 are on injury leave at any given time. This is due to personnel going from 1850 to 1350 to 1,088. Make that 1088 budgeted minus 60-90 injury leavers and minus another 50 people budgeted but not hired. According to one of the four $100k general managers (one was actually added at the time of the 2005 layoffs!), "we are doing this (not hiring and closing engines and ladders) because we CAN!"-James Mack 2007. Oh, and figure we don't hit the pension system too hard as we fund alot of it ourselves and we die(actuarally) within 10 years of retirement. Maybe someone can speak, firsthand, about the cops "generous" time off and pay....this doesn't exist! | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 842 Registered: 07-2004 |
Interesting stats. I have a international student classmate in my class from Trinadad. And it is interesting to hear her stories on emergancy services. While we expect emergancy services within 4-6min(as we should), she was telling me how in Trinadad even in the core cities, you usually have to get yourself the hospital or try to put out a fire yourself, because they do not guarantee emergancy services. You phone their version of 911, and they may tell you that all services are busy, and you have to wait 60 min or longer for a firetruck or EMS. I found that shocking that people put up with that. |
