 
Nyct
Member
Username: Nyct
Post Number: 94
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 1:57 pm: |    |
I walked past the Lafayette Building today and one of the boards covering a ground floor window on the Lafayette Blvd. side is removed. There are construction barricades blocking the sidewalk ... At the very least, someone's checking it out. |
Detroit_pride
Member
Username: Detroit_pride
Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 1:59 pm: | |
There was a construction walk thru for the David Whitney building about a week ago....
Whatever buildings they do decide on, is promising news! |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6502
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 2:01 pm: | |
Burnsie, 10 years... that's only a fraction of the time that the city has been allowing trees to grow on top their properties... and as 56packman has stated on this forum... those bricks from the sides of the United Artists Building have been showering down onto cars on Clifford at least a decade before Ilitch bought the property... and the condition of the theatre was already a ruin before scrappers got in to cart of some of the plaster detail. Funny that, I didn't see either previous owners David Grossman OR Don Barden put a new roof on the structure?
I'm not an Ilitch appologist by any means. I look at him with a love/hate relationship. I think he's spot on 70% of the time. It's the other 30% (Madison-Lenox, Hotel Vermont, Wolverine Hotel, YMCA, YWCA) where I dislike him.
But one cannot easily dismiss the Ilitch's as being bad for Detroit or as a total slumlord.
As I've mentioned before, the Detroit Free Press has the Ilitch's pegged right on... "flawed brilliance". There's a lot that they've done that makes people happy, and there's a lot that they've done that makes people angry.
When Marion Ilitch got her gaming license, there was a thorough background check by the state gaming commission. Had there been any shady dealings (even as minor as spousal abuse), they would have been denied. Just look at the trail of Detroit businessmen and businesswomen who didn't cut the mustard, while Marion (and Mike by default since they own most of their empire jointly) got a gaming license.
Let's just try to keep everything in perspective, the good and the bad...
(Message edited by Gistok on March 18, 2008) |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 4035
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 2:08 pm: | |
quote:Detroit has neither the resources nor the incentive to "make" Ilitch do anything.
Didn't Ilitch get 7 million bucks to demolish the Madison-Lenox? Let's think about what we're saying here.
quote:Has Ilitch gamed a corrupt and inept local government to make a fortune? Yup. Absolutely. He doesn't run a charity, he runs a "for profit" business. He has done nothing illegal, he has just been a sharp dealer.
And people on this--a supposedly thoughtful "urban-minded" forum--treat Ilitch like a hero for it.
I agree with the posts above--it's like the abused wife syndrome. Get some civic self-esteem, people! Ferchill is banging down your door, and all you can think is, "If not Mike Ilitch, then who?" |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6503
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 2:19 pm: | |
Dan, sorry but you've been misinformed (by the power of 10). The Ilitch's got a $700,000 low or no interest loan, with the stipulation that if they don't build something in its' place in a set number of years (can't find the number at the moment), it must be repaid.
Corporate welfare? You betcha, that's what Detroit is famous for...
Also Dan, you must have missed 3rdworldcity's comments on how the Detroit taxpayers are being robbed blind by how much public (taxpayer) money is going into the Ferchill's Book Cadillac project. The Ferchill part of the total project cost... only a fraction of the total $180 million project, with millions in DEGC money, and federal and state tax credits (Historic, Renaissance Zone, etc.) up the kazoo.
So tell us again how Ferchill is better than Ilitch? |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 5695
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 2:19 pm: | |
Huh? Who's telling Ferchill he can't come in? I don't understand the point. Gistok and Higgs were defending him from being called nothing but a slumlord, while admitting he has plenty of faults as well. Nobody is discouraging other developers from coming in the scene. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6504
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 2:22 pm: | |
Thanks Johnlodge... both Higgs and I were trying to show a more balanced look at Ilitch, nothing more... the good, the bad and the ugly... |
Wschnitt
Member
Username: Wschnitt
Post Number: 72
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 2:26 pm: | |
I do not see taxcredits as being equal to spending public money. The Book Cadillac is not being funded like the public works are funded. It is money they are not paying to the government. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 4037
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 2:29 pm: | |
Sorry, Gistok. I screwed up the number (by an order of magnitude). Thanks for correcting me. Seven hundred Gs is still a lot of money to get nothing in return, no?
Yes, Ferchill's project requires a hell of a lot of subsidy, but it's a property that will return to the tax rolls, and provide some income taxes and hotel taxes from the occupants. Typically, with a project like this, it is hoped that the public money fronted is recouped through increased tax receipts. And if this one renovation makes the long-dormant Lafayette block a property of interest, isn't that better still?
What is Detroit getting out of the Macedonian ParkingPlex? |
Rsa
Member
Username: Rsa
Post Number: 1429
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 2:30 pm: | |
ug. here we go again; absolute vs. absolute. look, you're both right. mike ilitch has benefitted this city and has been detrimental to this city. he's not the savior nor is he the devil. geez this argument has been beat to death.
and please give the "if, then..." statements a rest. they hold no water at all. people can be happy with what he's done and push him to follow thru on his other holdings/endeavors.
you got that right burnsie! the shape the UA is in right now is directly accountable to the ilitch's. the building was mostly mothballed when he got it (for $1 from the city, by the way). it was then decimated by scrappers despite constant calls and notifications. |
Higgs1634
Member
Username: Higgs1634
Post Number: 374
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 2:46 pm: | |
quote:What is Detroit getting out of the Macedonian ParkingPlex?
Tax revenue where there was none?
(Message edited by higgs1634 on March 18, 2008) |
Rsa
Member
Username: Rsa
Post Number: 1430
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 2:46 pm: | |
few quick responses to above:
-the bricks on the facade of the currency exchange building (UA office tower) were secured by grossman in the early 90's. this is why he had no money to continue the renovation and had to sell the theatre.
-grossman and barden had the building secured and routine patrols of the building.
the interior plasterwork of the theatre had been restored to about 60% by the time ilitch bought it.
-the roof of the theatre was also being patched and maintained up until barden bought it.
by no means am i saying they are inexscusable for the condition of the building, i'm just saying that they did a lot more for the building than ilitch has. [this taking into consideration that no one know what the hell is going on with the building right now. my suspicion is prep for demolition, given ilitch's track record and the proximity to a possible quicken site.] |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6508
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 3:01 pm: | |
RSA,
Recently I talked with Michigan Building owner's secretary, who mentioned that from what she could tell some extensive roof work had been done next door. She saw this from an upper floor window of the Michigan Building, which has the absolute best vantage point for the UA Theatre roof. She stated that it didn't look like demo work to her.
Next time I go down there in the next 2 weeks I'll bring my camera along and take some close up photos of the roof work, and let some of the you folks decide for yourselves. |
Wschnitt
Member
Username: Wschnitt
Post Number: 73
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 3:06 pm: | |
Maybe the UA building is one of the buildings that will be renovated by Ferchill. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6509
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 3:08 pm: | |
Sorry Burnsie, but Chuck Forbes did very little to restore the Fox. He secured the building, but little else. Back then he didn't have a lot of money (in the days before he made a killing off the Stadia land sale), and that that he did have he put into buying other downtown real estate.
Although he did restore the outer and rotunda lobby of the State (Filmore), besides fixing up the procenium, the auditorium plasterwork of the State looks just as grimy (nicotine covered and paint peeling) as when he bought it in the early 1980's. |
Rsa
Member
Username: Rsa
Post Number: 1431
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 3:17 pm: | |
thanx gistok. i really truly hope i'm wrong; i'd love to see something happen with that building. the footprint is easily adaptable and historic tax credits can be utilized very easily (since there are no partition walls on any of the floors).
the building and the theatre have been a "pet project" of mine for a long time. i did a research thesis on it for high school, a design project on it in college, and have been a part of every preservation group associated with it (friends of park avenue, preservation wayne, etc.). i even helped volunteer my time to keep it secure before the ilitch transaction and watched the hudson's implosion from the roof. |
Detroitman32
Member
Username: Detroitman32
Post Number: 9
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 3:43 pm: | |
Hoping for positive development... this is good news. |
Redetroit
Member
Username: Redetroit
Post Number: 63
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 3:58 pm: | |
Eboyer, do you have any more info on future dining options at the Book? I'd love to hear what's in the works... |
Eboyer
Member
Username: Eboyer
Post Number: 94
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 4:22 pm: | |
Redetroit--it's not 100% yet, but there is a pretty good clue in my last post. If you are into fine dining, I think you'll get it. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 5708
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 4:24 pm: | |
Bobby Flay? Morimoto? Batali? WHO COULD IT BE?! |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 5625
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 4:30 pm: | |
Wolfgang Puck? |
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 1793
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 4:34 pm: | |
"Wolfgang Puck?"
Eh, we already have him.
A Ruth Chris would be reasonable  |
Eboyer
Member
Username: Eboyer
Post Number: 95
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 4:36 pm: | |
Piece it together people! You're DETROITERS! That makes you crafty, clever, and resourceful! |
Supersport
Member
Username: Supersport
Post Number: 11768
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 4:52 pm: | |
Haven't been around here much lately, but a quick drop in showed me that DaninDC still has some serious penis envy for Detroit. Now excuse me, I have to go to the other thread where somebody calls out his amazing insight on Detroit that surpasses even those whom live here. |
Ramcharger
Member
Username: Ramcharger
Post Number: 539
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 5:42 pm: | |
Rob Dalzell?
(Message edited by Ramcharger on March 18, 2008) |
Detroitbill
Member
Username: Detroitbill
Post Number: 546
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 5:55 pm: | |
I think its a little hard to refute the good the Illitches have done for Detroit ( and ofcourse themselves, they are business people). Calling him a slumlord is a mayor stretch,.. Take the Illitches out of the equation and lets go for a walk downtown,,, it would appear materially different .. and not for the good |
Rugbyman
Member
Username: Rugbyman
Post Number: 275
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 6:25 pm: | |
If I had to wager, I'd bet Mario Batali. He keeps a place up near Traverse City.
How cool would that be? (The Batali, not the Traverse. Though I wouldn't say boo to that, either) |
Busterwmu
Member
Username: Busterwmu
Post Number: 443
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 7:00 pm: | |
I was wondering about the David Stott tower. It's just across Capitol Park from the Book Cadillac, and was up for sale just recently, I believe. Maybe that's one Ferchill is interested in. Otherwise, I do hope the Whitney is included (and the Broderick, but I'm probably just wishing). If the Lafayette were included, that stretch of Michigan Ave going west from Campus Martius would have a vibrant and completely different face, now including the Griswold, B-C, Lafayette, and new transit center.
Just some thoughts... More power to them whichever buildings they may be! |
Boynamedsue
Member
Username: Boynamedsue
Post Number: 35
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 7:18 pm: | |
Danicdc, you are retarded |
Tompage
Member
Username: Tompage
Post Number: 59
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 7:19 pm: | |
The Book-Cadillac is a Louis Kamper design. So are the VACANT Eddystone and Salvation Army properties on Park north of the Fisher Freeway. Anyone else think that these could be the properties Ferchill has plans for? |
Eboyer
Member
Username: Eboyer
Post Number: 96
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 8:13 am: | |
Where is John Ferchill from? Where is one of the Iron Chefs from?
This guy is the hottest thing in fine dining today.
I'm disappointed in all of you! |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 5712
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 8:25 am: | |
Ferchill is from Cleveland, I think. Flay is from New York, obviously. Batali is from Seattle. Cat Cora is from Mississippi. Morimoto works in Manhattan. So I still don't get it! |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 5713
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 8:30 am: | |
AHA! Michael Symon! Winner of the "Next Iron Chef" competition, whose restaurant opened in Downtown Cleveland! |
Rugbyman
Member
Username: Rugbyman
Post Number: 276
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 8:50 am: | |
AHHHHHH dammit! Should have gotten that one, being a food network junkie and all! |
Rb336
Member
Username: Rb336
Post Number: 5513
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 9:15 am: | |
Wasn't Monahan rebuilding the Eddystone already? |
Burnsie
Member
Username: Burnsie
Post Number: 1322
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 9:56 am: | |
Gistok-- After looking up more info and reading your post, I stand corrected on my post about who was responsible for restoring the Fox. (I deleted it). Should've done my "due diligence" first! |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6513
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 12:05 pm: | |
Hey no problem!
As much as we all like to bash Ilitch from time to time for something that he did or didn't do... then he does an about face and does something that we're really happy about...
Outside of downtown Detroit, there's 4 enormous buildings or "leviathans"... the MSC, the Fisher Bldg., Cadillac Centre (former GM HQ), and the Masonic Temple...
Well Mike Ilitch just recently rescued one of these leviathans from certain closure... namely the Masonic Temple, which with 1,038 rooms on 14 floors (7 huge floors with 7 mezzanines), is the worlds largest.
He not took over responsibility for bookings on the Masonic's 4,404 seat main theatre, as well as their 1,585 Scottish Rite theatre... BUT he also paid the massive backlog of utility bills that they had (and DTE Energy was about to shut off their electricity).
That building today would have been another dark closed hulk, with the remaining Masonic lodges making a "B" line for the suburbs, were it not for Mike Ilitch (no one else was waiting in the wings with an infusion of cash).
And now Ilitch is planning on using the Masonic as an extension of entertainment functions for nearby MotorCity Casino.
So for everything that he has done to earn a reputation as a slumlord, he's done something else to resurrect his reputation as someone who's helped with the redevelopment and revitalization of Downtown and Midtown.
(Message edited by Gistok on March 19, 2008) |
Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers
Post Number: 1968
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 12:17 pm: | |
Gistok,
Shouldn't the Lee Plaza be on that list? |
Vetalalumni
Member
Username: Vetalalumni
Post Number: 972
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 3:08 pm: | |
What is the current status and plans for Lee Plaza? Enjoyed that great building well over 100 times while visiting relatives there from the 60s to late 80s. It was a fine facility. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6519
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 3:24 pm: | |
Jsmyers, the Lee Plaza would be on it in the height department (but then so would 1300 Lafayette and the Jeffersonian), but it lacks bulk/volume as compared to the others. |
Gencinjay
Member
Username: Gencinjay
Post Number: 7
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 12:22 pm: | |
Regarding what you see at the Lafayette Building. The board has been removed several times by bums and/or whoever is painting the windows. The barricades were put around the building because pieces have been falling off and crashing to the sidewalk. They moved the bus stop from there a couple months ago because of this and you can see debris on the sidewalk as of yesterday. |
Mwilbert
Member
Username: Mwilbert
Post Number: 141
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 3:54 pm: | |
"Outside of downtown Detroit, there's 4 enormous buildings or "leviathans"... the MSC, the Fisher Bldg., Cadillac Centre (former GM HQ), and the Masonic Temple... "
Just in case anyone else was confused, I think the MSC should be the MCS... I spent a while trying to figure out what the heck the MSC was! |
Burnsie
Member
Username: Burnsie
Post Number: 1329
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 4:01 pm: | |
MSC-- that's a no-brainer. Michigan State College! Not in Detroit, though, and now MSU. |
Eboyer
Member
Username: Eboyer
Post Number: 97
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, March 20, 2008 - 8:43 pm: | |
You guys got it right! Mike Symon is officially coming to Detroit. Courtesy of poster "Tiorted" from earlier today...
Michael Symon has just inked his first post-Iron Chef restaurant deal. The chef has committed to a consultancy deal with Starwood Hotels to open a restaurant in Detroit's Westin Book-Cadillac, a 1924 gem currently undergoing a $180 million renovation. The 120-seat restaurant is expected to open next fall. "It's an American brasserie themed around heritage meats," Symon explained. The highest quality beef, pork, lamb, bison, boar and other meats will be spit-roasted, wood-grilled, smoked, braised and cured. No doubt we'll be driving to the Motor City to sample wild boar short ribs, bison prime rib and braised rabbit. Sides like smoky beans with pancetta, lemony potatoes and pastichio will be served family-style. "I wish I thought of this concept before," Symon noted. "It would work great here in Cleveland." As the consulting chef, Symon will develop the concept and menu, hire and train staff, and manage the overall operation. He will not, he promises, be leaving Cleveland. In other Symon news: The chef has partnered with Cleveland author Michael Ruhlman to publish his first cookbook, titled Symon Says: Live to Cook. "The book will be like a story of my life in food," says Symon. Recipes will trace the chef's trajectory from childhood, through culinary school, all the way up to Iron Chefdom.
http://www.freetimes.com/stori es/15/39/bites
http://www.foodnetwork.com/foo d/michael_symon/ |
New threads cannot be started on this page. The threads above are previous posts made to this thread.