Discuss Detroit » Archives - January 2008 » Why did Greektown survive? « Previous Next »
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 832
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 8:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have an interesting little question.

What were the factors in Greektown having survived the near collapse of downtown Detroit?
Woodward Ave tanked, as did Washington Blvd and other major retail and entertainment streets.

So what did Greektown due to keep decay at bay?

Was Greektown always as popular as it is now. Or was it more just a local ethnic neighbourhood that other area residents did not venture to?

(Message edited by miketoronto on March 23, 2008)
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Ravine
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Username: Ravine

Post Number: 2090
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 8:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Y'know, I don't have an answer for it, but that really is a damned good question.
Legitimate conjectures and interesting opinions are sure to follow my admittedly useless post.
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Zrx_doug
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Username: Zrx_doug

Post Number: 31
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 8:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greektown was made a "safe" destination for Detroit visitors by previous administrations in the "pre-casino" era..and the proximity of the mugger mover, er..PEOPLE mover made it an easy stop after events at other downtown destinations.
Gotta say, I haven't bothered with it much SINCE the casino(s) moved in..gambling crowds aren't my idea of fun..used to spend a whole day there, now it's just eat & go.
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Lansingfire
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Username: Lansingfire

Post Number: 91
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 8:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Back in the day they had some shopping (and a place to get fake id's) and they've always had the food that was a specialty. Not to be rude to anyones culture, but I can make steak, ribs, tacos, salads, and the rest at home. Greek however is tough (at least for me)
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 1529
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 8:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Greektown area was originally part of the commercial district for Detroit's German community. During the 1960's, it was well-known that certain Greektown establishments were patronized by many members of the Detroit police force, among others.
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401don
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Username: 401don

Post Number: 331
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 9:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greektown shows that one tiny block of activity in a city as empty as Detroit can give people the feeling of comfort/safety that density provides.
Harmonie Park tried to achieve this in the 90's but never quite reached the tipping point.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 2870
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 9:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One factor is probably it's proximity to the courts, police station and other office buildings to provide a customer base.
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Detroitrise
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Username: Detroitrise

Post Number: 1818
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 23, 2008 - 9:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"other office buildings to provide a customer base."

Yeah, the few workers at BCBS could really help out Trapper's Alley by themselves :-)
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Sharms
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Username: Sharms

Post Number: 55
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Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 12:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This maybe total folklore, but when I was a kid, in the 60's, the word was that Greektown was always safe for two reasons. A lot of police officers spent a lot of time there as did many members of the Detroit "underworld." They didn't bother eachother and, as long as those groups patronized Greektown, no one would be bothered. May be suburban legend, but that was how I always perceived Greektown.
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Chub
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Username: Chub

Post Number: 502
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 12:49 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that as a kid from Plymouth, growing up in the 1980's, my parents took me to Greektown and Mexican Town more than any other location in Detroit. Hamtramck was also another regular destination. Some great memories.
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Smogboy
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Username: Smogboy

Post Number: 7383
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Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 2:48 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sure the proximity of so many officers helped but a lot of the merchants did a great job in making the environment welcoming. They would shoo out the undesirables and would do a spectacular job in keeping up appearances. The merchants there collectively had a sense of pride and kept the area hospitable. They were also savvy enough to keep the area well lit and catered to truly making it a business district. I can't even begin to think about how many dates I've taken down there and seen so many others as well. It's still a great destination.
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Whithorn11446
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Username: Whithorn11446

Post Number: 219
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 3:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"A lot of police officers spent a lot of time there as did many members of the Detroit "underworld." They didn't bother eachother and, as long as those groups patronized Greektown, no one would be bothered. May be suburban legend, but that was how I always perceived Greektown"

Well unless someone had a death wish, doing something like holding up the Grecian Gardens was not a great idea.
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2583
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 4:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Definitely being a destination for eating has kept Greektown going. They appear to get a lot of business during the day from the Frank Murphy Hall of Justice. When I was on jury duty, most of us jurors went to Greektown for lunch because it was close and we could get something quickly.

I also think the adding of Fishbone's, Pizza Papalis, The Loco Bar, and other non-Greek restaurants has helped maintain Greektown's status as a place to go to eat. I know that for myself, before the non-Greek restaurants were around, I pretty much just went to Niki's Pizzeria with my college buddies. Then Fishbone's and Pizza Papalis showed up and I started taking a lot of my dates to those places. The New Parthenon is really the only other Greek restaurant that I have been to on several occasions, besides Niki's.

I now enjoy going to Pappy's and I eventually want to go to Mosaic. The variety of restaurants now in Greektown definitely keeps me coming back.

(Message edited by royce on March 24, 2008)
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Umbound
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Username: Umbound

Post Number: 62
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 7:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just a nice idea, why doesn't Greektown have any residential development going on there? is there enough space around the area to build on top of? it would be nice to see some lofts there...
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Wpitonya
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Username: Wpitonya

Post Number: 67
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, March 24, 2008 - 8:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greektown survived because it has authentic culture, the correct density, it's historic, and its proximity to many attractions.
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Karenk
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Username: Karenk

Post Number: 60
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sharms is absolutely correct. Cops & robbers made the place safe!
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 5781
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 4:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Correct. The Greeks have ways of keeping their areas free from troublemakers. Far more than a punk with a gun wants to deal with.
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 1754
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 4:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You see this quite frequently in ethnic enclaves that are fairly homogenous in population...they tend to band together and have some sense of pride in their neighborhood.

Witness Hamtramck, kept relatively safe and clean for decades by old Polish grandmothers.
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Raptor56
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Username: Raptor56

Post Number: 300
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 5:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And for my 300th post, this nugget of info:

"During the 1960s, Greektown was reduced to one block after surrounding buildings, including the Greek Orthodox Church, were razed to provide sites for downtown parking and institutional buildings. Realizing that Greektown was in danger, the city's Greek community banded together to hold the first Greek festival in 1965. Business owners realized that what made their block of restaurants and shops significant was that it was distinctly Greek. "

http://www.nps.gov/history/nR/ travel/detroit/d12.htm
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Jackpot
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Username: Jackpot

Post Number: 6
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 10:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i miss the music menu! :-(
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 2587
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 - 11:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What would be a coup for me regarding Greektown would be to expand it by adding new restaurants and shops on Macomb Street. Right now the Wayne County Sheriff's Office takes up the corner of St. Antoine and Macomb. That office could easily relocate somewhere else. The rest of the block is just one long parking lot.

This new block could have different ethnic restaurants like Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Indian, African, and African American(soul food). It would be a better use of space than what is currently there. Well, that's my two cents.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 7231
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 7:17 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greektown survived but New Hellas, REAL Greek restaurant is gone. I'll miss the waiters bringing the flaming feta cheese and saying " OPA!"
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Jaydetroit
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Username: Jaydetroit

Post Number: 14
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2008 - 9:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

haha lansingfire, I just saw our earlier comment... they did used to have a fake ID place... Bob's...
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One_shot
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Username: One_shot

Post Number: 366
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 10:52 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think Greektown was and still kinda is THE place to go after an outing downtown. It was like a treat to eat or go there. I remember walking through Trappers and visiting all the stores. The escalators on the top floors that crossed the alley used to freak me out. The hard working Greek owners and the continued support of the visitors is my best guess.
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Crew
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Username: Crew

Post Number: 1411
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mike, Great thread and good question.
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Dannyv
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Username: Dannyv

Post Number: 134
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, March 28, 2008 - 11:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

At Pitcher Elementary (now closed), our social studies teacher, Albert Barach, would take his 6th grade class on a day trip to Greektown. As much as Little Italy's that exist in other cities, Greektown was considered our own ethnic enclave that gave Detroit distinction.

Anybody know whatever happened to Stella, the old nurse who used to live on Greektown's streets on the charity of it's business owners?
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Jcole
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Username: Jcole

Post Number: 7
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 10:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Was she the elderly lady that used to sleep in the doorway of the bar next to the Golden Fleece? She was ancient in the 80's and living that life couldn't have been conducive to good health.
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Living_in_the_d
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Username: Living_in_the_d

Post Number: 149
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 11:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, Greektown is cool.
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Goblue
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Username: Goblue

Post Number: 1391
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 11:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think Whithorn nailed it in an earlier post...the DPD and the "Families" both frequented Greektown...it was sort of a "live and let live" area. No one got bothered there. I remember one evening sitting in a restaurant in Greektown with a couple of friends...I think we were the only customers in the place...four big torpedos walked in, looked around carefully and then took up positions in each corner of the room...a couple of minutes later Tony Jack and a half dozen family members walked in and sat at their reserved table...I figured we were in the safest place in the city that night.
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Dannyv
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Username: Dannyv

Post Number: 136
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 1:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jcole, yeah, that's the woman. Sometimes she'd go off on a rant against an invisible foe. I used to eat my lunch in Greektown when I worked at Detroit General Hospital and she never bothered me. At that time there were two social clubs, the Peloponnesus and the Macedonia clubs. As I recall the Macedonia club was friendlier and would allow non-members in to shoot pool, drink coffee and eat their lunches. That all changed when they built Trappers Alley, the commercialization project tacked onto Greektown. It sucked.

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