  Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism Post Number: 722 Registered: 06-2005 |
http://money.cnn.com/galleries /2008/fsb/0803/gallery.best_pl aces_to_launch.fsb/42.html Sad that it is the ONLY city in the state of Michigan to make it in. There are multiple cities from states like Oregon, Texas, even Iowa and Montana. So, it is certainly not about the cold weather. We really need the people who represent us in Lansing to do something fast, or get out so that real problem solvers and solution generators can get to work. | ||
Monahan568 Member Username: Monahan568 Post Number: 295 Registered: 04-2004 |
"Though located in an area suffering what's been called a "one-state depression,"" that statement says alot... on a side note i'm surprised Sarasota is so low on the list... (Message edited by monahan568 on March 26, 2008) | ||
Sparty06 Member Username: Sparty06 Post Number: 58 Registered: 03-2007 |
Congrats Ann Arbor. Now let's work on getting more Michigan cities in that list. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1841 Registered: 09-2007 |
Well that explains why they're getting 2 Whole Paychecks (no pun intended)  | ||
Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism Post Number: 723 Registered: 06-2005 |
Yes, the "one-state depression" moniker. Well, why is it that Michigan kept on lingering by itself as the "one-state" that experiences depression. Why not pass the title on to another state for a change? Think about it, a lot of people say it is the weather (as mentioned above, states like Iowa, Montana, Minnesota and Wisconsin are not any different in terms of cold weather). There are also people who say that it is because there is a lack of young, creative and entrepreneurial folks. Well, how can that be when smaller towns from states like Idaho, Alabama and etc. with fewer young, creative and entrepreneurial people made the rankings. Michigan doesn't have any significant handicap physically, when compared to other states in the country. The problem definitely lies in the policy makers. It is extremely sick to see our home state screw itself time and time again, by having incompetent people represent us in Lansing. Because of this, our state has a poor business environment to launch any ventures and a mediocre place to live. Thank our lucky stars for Ann Arbor, or else there wouldn't even be any PR for our region at all. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 559 Registered: 11-2003 |
Ann Arbor is a true model for a succesful medium size city. Maybe that's why when I visit there, I don't even feel like I am in Michigan! | ||
Jfried Member Username: Jfried Post Number: 1128 Registered: 11-2003 |
That article is from the April 2008 issue, however, it includes some old information. The Ann Arbor Profile discusses how local leaders are looking at alternatives to the Single Business Tax. The SBT was replaced by the MBT months ago. ------------------------------ ---------- A "single business tax" (SBT) that behaved like a payroll tax did not sit well with the business community; as a result, the city is actively evaluating taxation alternatives to replace the SBT. ------------------------------ --------------- nonetheless, it's an interesting list. All small - mid size cites other than San Antonio and San Jose. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4523 Registered: 02-2005 |
Ann Arbor = small city. It has a major identity crisis, because of the prospect of it being a midsize. There is a chronic fear of density among the residents here because they still view it as a pastoral, small southern Michigan town. Ann Arbor is a good business environment mostly because it is a magnet-- there are a ton of pull factors here. I think it is less than ideal for small businesses because storefront space is often overpriced-- and we see that now in the alarming rate of newly abandoned storefronts. The taxes are pretty high, and that's why most of the major employers build campuses in A2 Township and add to the sprawl/traffic problem. The government is forward thinking especially with regards to transit and the environment, but that's about it. When the streetcar lines on collector roads appear, and when the City finally allows willing developers to fill in vacant/low density lots with all of the 6-26 story buildings that have been proposed, then I'll agree that it's a pretty ideal midsize city. | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 1151 Registered: 05-2006 |
It is interesting that Ann Arbor is also an extremely liberal city. Kind of goes against the "free marketeers" version of what makes a desireable city. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4524 Registered: 02-2005 |
It's liberal, but I think that the only thing making it more left than having a typical Michigan liberalism is the presence of active groups on the UM campus and a population of very liberal "creative class people." I believe the masses in Ann Arbor, who live in the non-central neighborhoods, are pretty regular Michiganders who have the same concerns, prejudices, car culture, etc etc. The City government has a liberal mayor, but most of the council is pretty average. There is a City attorney who wanted to shut down certain downtown bars/clubs because too many "urban people" were going there. You can guess what that means. So yeah, there's a strain of hippie liberalism and elitist liberalism near the campus that makes A2 different from Michigan, but most of the people and their elected officials are pretty average. As for the "free marketeers version of a desirable city," I'd say that most great cities are great business environments because of their intrinsic attributes that make people want to be there; economic policy only shapes behavior. The cities that are relying on low taxes and deregulation to develop are generally in the sunbelt, and then you have places like Columbus and Minneapolis. They also had cheap land and smallish urban cores in formerly undesirable parts of the country, so they needed to rely on making their markets as accessible as possible to attract all the corporations and residents that they have. In other words, it's hards to apply the open market v. highly regulated market framework to all cities, because not all cities were created equal. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 6221 Registered: 11-2003 |
Cmubryan, face it. Ann Arbor is about an hour from Michigan in a million ways. You tell it like it tis. jjaba, Westsider. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 6223 Registered: 11-2003 |
Darwinism, thank you thank you. Ann Arbor is not a suburb!•• You settled it, finally. jjaba. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 4901 Registered: 12-2005 |
quote:Interesting parallel. I think with liberalism there comes a certain amount of mental agility and a willingness to self-correct. Although often denounced it is exactly that agility that is required to adapt in an erratically changing economy. | ||
Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism Post Number: 724 Registered: 06-2005 |
If you break things down and think about it, there are dozens of cities in Michigan that are practically identical in physical landscape, population demographics, climate as the majority of the cities on the CNN 100 ranking. Why is it that out of the 48 contiguous states, Michigan constantly stays in its "one-state depression" ? For goodness sake, let the other 47 states have a turn. Why only Ann Arbor ? St. Joseph is a pretty nice city, Grand Rapids isn't too bad, Kalamazoo and Lansing plus dozens of others in this state could join Ann Arbor. Do we really not have cities to compete against Worcester(Massachusetts), Hamden(Connecticut), Naperville(Illinois), Fargo(N.D.) or Buford(Georgia) ? What do they have there that is so different, aside from state and city government that provide positive business environment and good quality of life ? | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 6224 Registered: 11-2003 |
Darwinism, it is caled MICHIGAN STIGMA! Once planted in the mind, it is hard to erase. The big liberal deal in Ann Arbor is the publically funded University who can never get enough. Thus, a stable economy, if you call it an economy. Add that to the hype about major sports and "elite students" who pay up the ass to attend, and you got what some think is a great town. Gimme Detroit any day to that place. jjaba. | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 1106 Registered: 06-2004 |
I go back and forth between CA and MI almost weekly. I have to say, I find MI to be an incredibly difficult place to live. It has nothing to do with the weather. It's more a thousand little problems that add up. I think the main thing is cultural and aesthetics. In Michigan, it's drive, drive drive. Nobody walks or uses a bike. I find the built environment to be oppressively ugly, with miles of broken roads, ugly strip retail, dangling utility wires and cables holding road signs and stop lights. I don't like the massive setbacks, fronting dreary parking lots or ill-maintained grassy areas. I love MI and I'm committed to staying here and helping to diversify the economy. But honestly, when I get off the plane in CA, if feel like I've been let out of a giant, open-air prison camp. It's so exhilarating to be in CA away from the oppressive physical environment of MI. If I didn't have an emotional bond with the Detroit area and didn't have family here, it would be inconceivable to live here. I wonder honestly how anyone can be recruited here or why anyone would stay here. I say this with a deep pit of sorrow, not to be catty. (Message edited by ray on March 27, 2008) | ||
W_chicago Member Username: W_chicago Post Number: 14 Registered: 01-2008 |
Personally, I think Ann Arbor is hugely overrated. And although its aesthetics and urban landscape are quite amazing, I wouldn't want to live there. I always get the feeling I'm not wanted when I go there... maybe it's because I'm not a U of M student. Maybe it's because I get this vibe of elitism. I think folks are right about the Ann Arbor identity crisis. It's a small city. About the size of Livonia. It's also a bubble. It's very disconnected with reality. When you're in Ann Arbor, you can forget about poverty, racism, war, exploitation, greed, sexism, and all the other plagues of this earth. It doesn't mean they don't exist, but when you're in Ann Arbor everything seems so jolly, and frankly very faux. I also think folks are right about its liberalism. It's not that "left," but it's defiantly liberal as in the "I have a higher moral standard than you" liberalism. | ||
Slider Member Username: Slider Post Number: 35 Registered: 06-2007 |
Ann Arbor, 35 square miles surrounded by reality. I guess that is why I chose Ypsilanti over Ann Arbor, it still carries what that makes Ann Arbor appealing without the elitism. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4525 Registered: 02-2005 |
W_chicago, I agree. I just wouldn't compare A2 to Livonia in anything other than population size. A2 is just a nice mid-density city with good amenities; states to our east have places like this in great abundance. With the fact that we have too few of these in Michigan (especially growing ones like A2 with flourishing entertainment/restaurant districts and lots of young people), A2 seems like a Michigan eden. I've enjoyed living here for three years, and I've made sure to get something more than just the typical undergrad experience. I feel like I've covered most of what the town has to offer. Now its overratedness is showing through a bit, especially when getting a good sandwich at a deli costs 12 bucks, when it would probably be half that in NY or *gasp* Detroit (Eastern Market). It's funny, but I value Detroit for its big city status and all the potential that exists as we continue to rebuild it more, after having lived in this town with an identity-crisis. I also agree with Ray about the depressing physical environment of SE Michigan. No one would say that we don't have great places, but they are basically little corners and small cores surrounded by squalor and ugliness. And our core city is devoid of most of its past grandeur, identity, and respect. So, yeah, it can be depressing. | ||
Goblue Member Username: Goblue Post Number: 1388 Registered: 03-2007 |
"A2 is an elite city which is an island of intellectualism"...so? My only regret is that its not in a warmer climate...I loved living there...of all of the university located mid-sized cities across there country where I lived it is far and away at the top of my list. I keep saying that if it were in a warm climate we'd move there tomorrow. I will say that after having done some social science research in the community in the late '70's...it was not as politically "left" a community as its image projects. The closest I've experienced to A2 is San Luis Obisbo although I never lived there. | ||
Motorcitydave Member Username: Motorcitydave Post Number: 128 Registered: 11-2004 |
I think a main problem for the whole state is a self image problem... we just love to hate ourselves, and feel sorry for ourselves, to the point where it has become 'cool' to leave and go to places like Arizona (for some reason)....lol. I know we have some economic problems right now (don't worry, the rest of the country is catching up with us....lol, we have been the model for the economic strength/weekness of the rest of the country for the past century).... but is there any state in the country that is as self loathing (and proud of it) as people from Michigan are?? (especially southern Michigan) This was a problem for as long as I can remember, even when 'economic times' were good, people were still in a hurry to move to Florida, or Cali after school... of course most all of them came back within a couple years....lol. We really DO have a lot here. Natural Beauty, and many cultural advantages over other areas, etc.... How about a little state pride?? | ||
Rosedaleken Member Username: Rosedaleken Post Number: 323 Registered: 06-2005 |
Ann Arbor is a great place to live. Outdoor activities, great libraries, decent transit, tons of bars and restaurants, and Hill brings in talent that usually wouldn't visit a city of its size. If I move back to MI, Ann Arbor would be it. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4526 Registered: 02-2005 |
I also agree with your last line MCDave. Doing that requires ignoring a lot of other things. Basically we need to focus on the positives when talking about Detroit and Michigan to outsiders, but not be afraid to discuss our abundant negative issues amongst ourselves. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1863 Registered: 09-2007 |
Just imagine if U of M would have stayed put in Detroit... | ||
English Member Username: English Post Number: 682 Registered: 10-2003 |
^ I hate to say it, but U of M wouldn't be the U of M of today if it were in Detroit. (Just like there's really no reason that Detroit's current city universities aren't more highly ranked. I received an EXCELLENT master's degree education at WSU.) Makes it more difficult to recruit superstar faculty when the area isn't that desirable for the intelligentsia. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4529 Registered: 02-2005 |
I really don't understand the logic, English. I don't know what UM would be like, but Detroit would be a lot better off, and Ann Arbor would be just a small version of Jackson. It's really sad to think about. If your theory that Detroit keeps our university's rankings down is even true, then lets consider the fact that if THE preeminent university in the state was located in Detroit straight up til now, then many parts of Detroit probably would have never declined, and probably in fact remain prestigious. Look at UPenn and UPitt and UChicago to see schools that have stayed well-ranked in spite of their city's ups and downs. USC is in a rought part of LA, it's ranking is stellar. Fordham is in the Bronx, again, great ranking. Wayne is lowly ranked as an undergrad institution (even though it has a faculty and infrastructure that make it comparable to many top 100 schools) because it leaves the door wide open at the bottom end...thus its GPA averages and test-score median are dragged down, and there is a high rate of people not graduating in four years, or dropping out (and tranfers like me who don't help the cause), so its numbers that matter for rankings are pretty marginal. That's why its lower than we'd like it to be, not because it's in a perfectly nice spot in Detroit. As for UD, it really isn't poorly ranked among maters-granting universities at all. Marygrove is a fine, old institution, but it really stacks up poorly against comparable institutions, unfortunately. (Message edited by mackinaw on March 28, 2008) | ||
Treelock Member Username: Treelock Post Number: 304 Registered: 03-2005 |
How Naperville, Illinois could make that list is beyond me. That place is a vapid, flame-singed hellhole of sprawl. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4531 Registered: 02-2005 |
Low taxes. Kind of like their version of Canton or Livonia, from what I gather. | ||
Treelock Member Username: Treelock Post Number: 306 Registered: 03-2005 |
Yes, like Canton. Only newer, even more vast, and much further from the city core. Imagine Phoenix on the Midwest plains. | ||
English Member Username: English Post Number: 683 Registered: 10-2003 |
Mackinaw, I've been spending the weekend trying to recruit graduate student talent to our department. I've also watched faculty search committees. It's getting more and more difficult to recruit because of the economic situation in Michigan. Potential talent looks not only at the drawing power of U-M, but opportunities for their spouses/partners. I've seen firsthand what Pfizer's closing has done to the real estate market and morale here... and this is supposed to be one of the bright spots in the state! It's really a shame. I see what you're saying, BTW. But I think of the Detroit - Ann Arbor relationship as analogous to San Francisco - Berkeley. Different cities with different histories. We need to build Detroit up so that the entire region and state will benefit. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4532 Registered: 02-2005 |
I agree with everything you just said, and I can see how fewer jobs would affect grad students' decisions. You're earlier point was much different though: you said that UM would be much different (less prestigious, I gather) if it stayed in Detroit. I'm still not sure about that. The relationship does need to be worked on, and mobility is key. A2-DTW-Detroit rail is absolutely neccesary. I've heard stories of UM Education school people wanting to take student teacher jobs in Detroit because they are interested in urban education, but they can't because driving that far is unacceptable. Thus, most/all of that talent is poured into places like A2 schools, Canton schools, et al. It's really just a cruel twist of fate that A2 and UM go so well together, but that we never got to see what UM and Detroit could have been like together in the 20th century. |
