Discuss Detroit » Archives - January 2008 » The Fence Is Rattling: Detroit Eats Itself « Previous Next »
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Ravine
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Username: Ravine

Post Number: 2118
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This post is not really about the City Hall Scandal, and I hope it isn't moved into the conglomeration of threads which center around that nebulous and shifting topic, because it might become lost in that ocean, which would be understandable if it was about that, but since it isn't, it wouldn't.

(This would be a good time for anyone who hates my way of expressing myself to click the little "back" arrow.)

In a thread, located in the "Connect" section, DY veteran poster & occasional witticist Johnlodge, with great sincerity, issued a plea for reason. His plea was possibly inspired by the Mayoral Mega-Thread, but seemed to be addressed to one & all, here, regarding our tendency to break down into divided, and divisive, groups. I thought it was a fine statement; it took no side and called no names, and it even placed some importance on the now-archaic concept of Setting An Example, a concept which, while it has maintained a high value with some of us, has been popularly unseated & replaced by What's In It For Me(?).

I posted a trio of brief responses. In one of them, I wrote that I thought the word "frenzy" applied well to the general atmosphere of the Mayoral Mega-Thread, and that I was finding myself to be less, and lesser yet, inclined to visit the Mega-Thread.

In other posts, I have urged some of my fellow DY citizens to not lose interest in this matter and allow their attention to wane, and harshly criticized the attitude of some of my co-workers as being encapsulated into the phrases "I'm so tired of hearin' that mess," and "all he did was get a little poon-tang on the side." I have proposed that Kwame Kenyatta, oily as he may seem, was correct in asserting that Kwame Kilpatrick was counting on the likelihood that most Detroiters would, at some point, fail to keep up with this stuff; that they would not bother to take the time to actually read some of the documents which are germane to the case and, as matters of public record, available to them. (My paraphrasing; my apology to Mr. Kenyatta if I did a better job of expressing the thought than did he.)

However-- and you knew a "however" was imminent, did you not?-- the Mega-Thread has inspired, in me, a belief that maybe it is actually possible, under certain extreme circumstances, to pay TOO much attention.

I felt led to use the word "frenzy," but the Mega-Thread brings a more visual image to my mind. Have you ever walked by a scrap-yard which, during off-hours, is patrolled by savage guard-dogs? Ever seen them, with their attention drawn to someone or something on the outside, lunging at the fence, barking and growling, with fangs flashing and saliva spewing all over the place, paws slashing at the air, and the force of their bodies causing the fence to make that rattling noise?

Despite the self-promotion of the TV stations, there is not "breaking news," about this case, every ten minutes. I am glad that The Detroit Free Press saw fit to bring some of this stuff to us, just as I am glad that the other media outlets have zealously reported on the matter, but I am not deluded about the importance of The Bottom Line, here. The primary mission is to make money. If the primary goal can be met by them "doing their jobs" and "serving the public," well, that's just fine & dandy, because then, they can make money AND brag about what outstanding Guardians Of The Public Trust they are, but if serving & guarding won't generate revenue, the sentries will lay down, and take a nap, until something profitable comes along. I apply that statement to, pretty much, all the media outlets, so don't bring me any malarkey about The Michigan Citizen, (just as a "for instance,") either; they ALL serve the same master. The media figure out who the potential customers are and what they want, and they bring that to them. In the case of this scandal, we have a cyclical process underway: It feeds into them, they feed into it, it feeds, they feed, everybody feed feeds.

And some of us Detroiters, for reasons that are not as simple as they may appear to be, cannot get enough of it.

Some of the sub-threads, contained in the Mega-Thread, are entirely ridiculous and serve no worthwhile purpose other than as vehicles for needless soap-boxing, complete with the preposterous claims and inflammatory language which, invariably, accompany that activity. But in a way, while DY is representative of only a very small portion of the group-psyche of the metro area, I think virtually all of that group-psyche is evident, in one spot or another, in the Mega-Thread. This scandal has brought out a passion the like of which has not recently been seen in this city. Unfortunately, and as one can see in some of the threads from our DY Mayoral Mega-Thread, all that passion eventually leads to some degree of polarization and division.

I am trying to not believe that there is a certain amount of self-loathing afoot, here in our city, but what I do believe is that we are starting to resemble those dogs at the fence. We have been beaten so much, and so often, that we are angry, we have not been properly fed, so we're hungry on top of angry, and at this moment, it looks like a lot of us are separating into packs and just want to attack something, anything, someone, anyone.

Kilpatrick spoke of a Next Detroit, and damned if we don't have one, thanks to this ugly turn of events.

Now, just that quickly, we need a Nexter one.


(Edit for use of mechanical adjustment as suggested in following posts.)

(Message edited by ravine on March 29, 2008)
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Sharmaal
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Username: Sharmaal

Post Number: 1294
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks.
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Raggedclaws
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Username: Raggedclaws

Post Number: 167
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 11:53 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are you using some kind of backward indentation technique or what ?

Self-edit. Check it out, Ravine.
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Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine

Post Number: 2119
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 1:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Raggedclaws, I have no idea what you meant by that, but, obviously, you meant something, and maybe there is a difference between what I do, what shows on my screen, and what shows on yours. Here's what I do:
For the beginning of a paragraph, I hit the space bar twice. At the end of a paragraph, I hit the Enter key, so as to drop down to the next line, where I again hit the space bar twice.
After I have previewed my post and "pushed the button" to go ahead and log it, the version which appears in the thread, at least on my screen, invariably looks as though I have NOT indented, although the paragraphs appear with proper separation. (Actually, it looks that way in the preview, too, I now observe.)
It sounds like you are seeing something entirely different from either of the things I'm seeing. What see you?
Considering the anal-retentive, obsessive-compulsive care with which I prepare my laborious, and probably tiresome, expositions, the idea that they wind up appearing on-screen in some manner of hacked-up form is, to me, terribly disturbing and disappointing.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 3987
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Indentation and tabs don't work here. Leaving a blank line between paragraphs makes long posts easier to read.
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Dannyv
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Username: Dannyv

Post Number: 135
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

dude, are you on speed?
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Mikeg
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Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 1542
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 1:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine

Post Number: 1594
Registered: 01-2006

Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 10:30 pm:
I don't stand corrected on a damned thing, and I sure as hell don't need a lesson on language, or writing, from Mikeg, who, despite his display of smuggery, seems not to read very well (or good, if you prefer.)
I repeat: Part of reading is hearing.


Your post is damned near incomprehensible.

Part of writing is editing. I suggest you try it.

Now clicking that little "back" arrow......
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Karl
Member
Username: Karl

Post Number: 10197
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 1:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ravine said:

"Considering the anal-retentive, obsessive-compulsive care with which I prepare my laborious, and probably tiresome, expositions...."

Hahaha, Ravine - well said, and I hope laughter is appropriate to the tone in which it was meant.

For what it is worth, I've noticed that Lowell's system often ignores multiple spacing (spacebar) but not paragraphing (Enter) (note Gannon's paragraphs separated by triple/quadruple lines)

Perhaps skip the spacebar, but hit "enter" twice? Works for me (though some wish none of it worked for me, haha)

Now back to the subject at hand......
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Gertrude
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Username: Gertrude

Post Number: 51
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 1:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ravine, I appreciate the time you took to craft the original post but allowing an extra blank line between the paragraphs would greatly improve readability.

Give me some time to think on this. I sincerely hope we don't allow the bitter divisiveness this scandal has revealed to define our city's future.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 3988
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 1:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

IMHO, I don't think things are as divisive right now as they seem. Small groups at the extremes always seem to be more vocal and adept at stirring things up.
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Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine

Post Number: 2120
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 1:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks to all for the advice and comments. I am now convinced that what appears on your screens is different than what appears on mine. (Which is what all crazy folks say, I know.) On mine, the paragraphs are clearly separate (while probably still incomprehensible to some,) but not indented.

I will use, and am now using, the Hit Enter Twice method.

Karl, your amusement is, in fact, appropriate to the self-mocking tone which I intended to express.

It seems that Mikeg has been waiting, for some months now, on an opportunity to pimp-slap me for my earlier display of disdain. Indeed, patience is a virtue.

"On speed?" Har! No, mon ami; I am always like this.

"Incomprehensible?" I can't help you with that. My transmission may be, on occasion, the result of a weak, or damaged, signal, but that doesn't mean that your receiver is not at fault.
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Bragaboutme
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Username: Bragaboutme

Post Number: 123
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 1:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it has opened my eyes to the fact that most of this region thinks alike and primarily want the same thing.

As far as the scandal goes of course the media has to make money, but this story has to be told.
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Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine

Post Number: 2121
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I quite agree, that the story should be told. Absolutely.

And if, by way of telling it, the media make money, that's fair enough.

Still, I cannot shake the feeling that some of this reporting is a case of them throwing raw meat over that fence I mentioned.

Be clear on one thing: With my original comments, I am not condemning, or dogging, anyone, or anything; I'm just sharing my impressions of a current mood in this city and in this forum.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 5832
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 1:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ravine, a fine post, regardless of where you did or did not hit the enter key. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I happen to very much like your writing style, and always enjoy reading your posts.

To address the line break thing as a completely seperate thought, I enjoy using line breaks to convey a sense of... how to put it...




A pause in thought.
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Oldredfordette
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Username: Oldredfordette

Post Number: 4231
Registered: 02-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 1:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's not really helping, sales of the papers haven't gone up and haven't translated to ad sales.

I know the guys who broke the original story at the FP. They followed this story out of a great love of the city and outrage at the behavior of Kwame. I am a person with no illusions about the mission of the News and Free Press - profit first.

How we all come out of the next six months - regionally and nationally - is certainly something to worry about. It's something to work for too, our civic souls?

One more thing. Thanks, Ravine.

(Message edited by oldredfordette on March 29, 2008)
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Jimaz
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Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 4922
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 2:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ravine, good thread. Sorry to interrupt with this but I'm a bit of a formatting geek. Here's what your paragraphs looked like to me:


paragraphs


There is an \indent{} function available here but that would indent every line of the paragraph. You could however indent it with about four \ch{nbsp} (nobreakspace) characters to get this effect:

    Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit, sed diam nonummy nibh euismod tincidunt ut laoreet dolore magna aliquam erat volutpat. Ut wisi enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exerci tation ullamcorper suscipit lobortis nisl ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis autem vel eum iriure dolor in hendrerit in vulputate velit esse molestie consequat, vel illum dolore eu feugiat nulla facilisis at vero eros et accumsan et iusto odio dignissim qui blandit praesent luptatum zzril delenit augue duis dolore te feugait nulla facilisi.
    Nam liber tempor cum soluta nobis eleifend option congue nihil imperdiet doming id quod mazim placerat facer possim assum. Typi non habent claritatem insitam; est usus legentis in iis qui facit eorum claritatem. Investigationes demonstraverunt lectores legere me lius quod ii legunt saepius. Claritas est etiam processus dynamicus, qui sequitur mutationem consuetudium lectorum. Mirum est notare quam littera gothica, quam nunc putamus parum claram, anteposuerit litterarum formas humanitatis per seacula quarta decima et quinta decima. Eodem modo typi, qui nunc nobis videntur parum clari, fiant sollemnes in futurum.

I too noticed the feeding frenzy you mentioned. I'm not too concerned about it here but I hope people aren't carrying those feelings out into real life. That can get carried away.
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Flanders_field
Member
Username: Flanders_field

Post Number: 236
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 2:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Venting and flaming the city of Detroit, especially it's leaders and government, has been a favorite pastime of Metro-Detroiters long before the advent of the internet.

I remember reading the Detroit News' Contact 10 as a teenager, and it was the first article that I would read when the paper arrived, even before the headlines and sports section. It was often very entertaining and sometimes hilarious.
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Eriedearie
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Username: Eriedearie

Post Number: 1174
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 3:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ravine - for what it is worth, your posts looks fine to me. I see no indents or anything amiss in your paragraph structure, and certainly no extra lines taken. That being said, your posts read like lines in a book on my computer screen.

I too like your style of writing, but I especially like the thought you put into whatever subject you are commenting on. Just keep doing what you're doing.

I have found myself staying away from the Mayor Mega Thread for the same reasons as you, but I could not put my finger on what I was feeling about it. All I could think of was that I was getting "overload" on the scandal. So thanks for identifying it all as a "frenzy." You hit the nail on the head there.

So people...IMO I think if we concentrate on Ravine's written words, we might discover something in ourselves in the process.
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Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 3989
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 3:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The city's current situation is well beyond the typical issues that draw venting and flaming.

Virtually every law agency in the city - Mayor's Office, Law Department, Police Department, has been compromised.

There should be outrage.
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Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine

Post Number: 2122
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 3:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, again, to one & all for the responses. I seldom initiate threads, so I admit to being rather curious as to how this one goes over.

I am humbly appreciative of the nice compliments, from a number of you, regarding my writing and/or thinking.

Thank you, Jimaz, for your tips. Ars longa; vita brevis.

Lilpup, I agree; there SHOULD be outrage, and the person being attacked has brought it on himself, but I am distressed by the intuition that, even before we acquired this most suitable target, we were, in a somewhat latent fashion, really REALLY internally prepared, and eager, to go into Full Attack Mode.

Anger. Lots of anger, even before this story broke.

This summer would be a real bad time for unusually high temperatures and a power blackout.

Maybe I'm mis-reading the mood. Maybe my barometer is on the fritz. I hope so.
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Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 3990
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The anger comes from the economic conditions. That's true anywhere, but the economic conditions are more extreme here.

I think if KK continued to fan flames the way he has been things could get worse, but I don't think that will be possible. Rumor posted in the mega-thread is that an assistant police chief will be indicted Monday. If Worthy's office can chip away quickly enough, or if KK steps down or takes a leave of absence, I think a lot of the tension will dissipate fairly quickly. However, if KK were forced from office by outside forces (i.e. the Governor) all hell could break loose. I'm not sure of the response if the Council forces him out - I suspect things would feel much the same as now.

On the plus side, even though the economy doesn't show improvement yet, I think much of the tension built up due to it is being spent on the scandal.

(Message edited by lilpup on March 29, 2008)
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East_detroit
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Username: East_detroit

Post Number: 1619
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 3:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ravine,

I think the online reaction and "dogs at the fence" posturing is the result of people expressing a pent-up anger and frustration with the way things are, brought on ostensibly by our "leadership" at all levels of government having a seeming disregard for the plight of the average citizen.

The Mayor is our local symbol of this as he obviously lied under oath and then either dismisses our concerns or makes light of them, all in the name of his personal gain rather than caring about the city or the citizenry. Meanwhile, we are reported as living in the "single State depression" and people can see it and feel it.

On the national stage we are seeing a pendulum-like reaction to an unpopular administration show itself in candidate choices. People want "change" and don't care what that means in the details, they just know that what they have today isn't what they want. Candidates need do nothing more than say that they are for "change" and do not need to express much detail in "how" they would actually enact change.

So, the opportunity to express outrage may seem to have been taken on too readily in all forms of textual expression (as different people have different ways to do so), but I think its justified. I think it is also a good thing and would hope that more people discuss and involve themselves in public discourse rather than expressing themselves in the manner in which you allude would happen during a hot summer.

The biggest concern of mine is whether or not "change" occurs. In the 1960's, people were promised change through legislation and that was a good thing, but it did not instantaneously bring forth change and I think that contributed to the frustration gaining a higher level than it would if no promise was implied. People could react violently if they see that nothing really changes post-January 20th and things get worse, but hopefully positive change will actually come forth.
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Diehard
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Username: Diehard

Post Number: 438
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anger. Passion. Outrage. Feeding frenzy. All of the above.
I find myself drawn to the story not just because it keeps evolving and growing and seems to get deeper every day, but also because of how it's fired up the city.
I think it's a good thing that people are outraged. The citizens of Detroit have been taking it on the chin for too long, but nothing ever seemed to get better, so their hopelessness at some point turned to complacency.
Now people are fed up. It's not clear whether this anger will manifest itself in a good way (a corrupt government finally cleans up its act) or in a bad way (even deeper racial divisions), but that's for us as citizens to determine.

Ravine, good post.
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Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 3991
Registered: 06-2004
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 4:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heaven knows this non-stop winter hasn't helped, either.

But good things are happening on the sports front, so that might really help bonding in the near term - Pistons just clinched their division, Red Wings clinched their conference, Tigers open Monday if the weather co-operates...
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Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine

Post Number: 2124
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 7:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, the winter has really become unusually burdensome.

I agree that the anger and outrage are appropriate to the situation, and this forum does provide an outlet for some healthy venting.

It really pisses me off when certain toadstools try to turn it all into a white vs. black, or city vs. suburbs, thing. Shut the hell up with that bullshit, awready.

But then, smallish minds have no choice but to distill everything down into bites small enough for them to chew.
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Nainrouge
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Username: Nainrouge

Post Number: 1224
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Monday, March 31, 2008 - 2:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Nexter Detroit" - funny!

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