Cman710 Member Username: Cman710
Post Number: 418 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 10:07 am: | |
http://www.realclearpolitics.c om/articles/2008/04/destroying _detroit.html "Detroit suffers from every possible malady except a plague of locusts, and that’s only because they find urban living uncongenial. The city has a revitalized downtown, but all around it, the city rots. Forbes magazine declared Detroit “America’s Most Miserable City,” on the basis of its unemployment and crime rates, among other things. The unemployment rate of 8.2 percent is the highest of any major urban area in the nation, and its homicide rate is higher than New York’s in the bad old days of the early 1990s." I read this morning, and thought it might provoke some discussion on the Forum. The article takes an approach that, while Detroit would have suffered from many problems regardless, poor governance (personified by Coleman Young's time as mayor) has prevented the city from improving its lot. |
Danny Member Username: Danny
Post Number: 7252 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 10:17 am: | |
Segregation, xenophobia and demarcation stabbed Detroit in the back and behold, our city is an example of American racism. |
Rooms222 Member Username: Rooms222
Post Number: 98 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 10:20 am: | |
On another site, this column was titled "The City that Liberalism Ruined" I almost posted it, and thought, Should it go in the Megathread or not? About half of it is about Kwame, but it concludes he is just a sideshow to the general decline of the city. |
English Member Username: English
Post Number: 684 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 10:26 am: | |
I've been reading articles like this about Detroit all my life. I think journalism like this loses its shock value after a while. No one expects better of Detroit, and so we become a self-fulfilling prophecy. |
Realitycheck Member Username: Realitycheck
Post Number: 562 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 10:32 am: | |
Yeah, what English said ^ in clear English. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along now to something fresher. |
Danny Member Username: Danny
Post Number: 7254 Registered: 02-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 10:33 am: | |
Liberism didn't ruin Detroit. People from various generations did. |
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_
Post Number: 2176 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 10:37 am: | |
Ignoring the truth is no way to fix it. |
Realitycheck Member Username: Realitycheck
Post Number: 563 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 10:44 am: | |
Recognizing and reinforcing strengths is a more productive approach to civic improvement than wallowing in whines. Just sayin' |
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710
Post Number: 420 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 10:48 am: | |
I agree that this sort of negative journalism isn't helpful to the city. At the same time, it remains important to stay abreast of people's perceptions. Unfortunately, this article's view is the typical view. (It actually may be more favorable than typical, since it acknowledged the renaissance downtown). We do need to recognize the problem to have a shot at fixing it. |
Karl Member Username: Karl
Post Number: 10247 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 10:56 am: | |
Cman710 said: "....this sort of negative journalism isn't helpful to the city." Uh, forget negative journalism. THE FACTS aren't helpful to the city, even if no one bothered to report on it. It would be exactly the same city. Unfortunately, no one ever studies the real problem: The homes, and the attitudes taught/contained therein. Bill Cosby gets it. The majority of Detroiters don't. Too bad - from the wealthiest city on earth - twice in history to a box of used kitty litter. |
Ongowwah Member Username: Ongowwah
Post Number: 27 Registered: 03-2008
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 11:24 am: | |
Well stated Karl! |
Mrsjdaniels Member Username: Mrsjdaniels
Post Number: 767 Registered: 08-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 11:45 am: | |
I hate to agree but this all very true. I love Detroit but it hurts me to see the city hurt. |
Illwill Member Username: Illwill
Post Number: 110 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 12:08 pm: | |
For every negative article or comment that I read about the city, I read about 5 positive articles at the same time. Don't believe the hype! |
Karl Member Username: Karl
Post Number: 10252 Registered: 09-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 12:21 pm: | |
"Don't believe the hype!" Yup, just drink the KoolAid, skip the flu shots and/or any warning signs. What's going on inside Detroit homes is great, always has been, and hasn't hurt the city - nor will it. See you in Oz. |
Sparty06 Member Username: Sparty06
Post Number: 65 Registered: 03-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 12:56 pm: | |
I like when people say stuff like "don't believe the hype". I'm sorry but horrible city services, extremely high taxes, horrible high school graduation rates, teacher walk outs over the charter school offer, etc. are all facts... they are not hype... they are the facts and until we acknowledge the facts we can't get past them. |
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto
Post Number: 4917 Registered: 10-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 1:11 pm: | |
But who is Rich Lowry? Did he ever live in or even visit Detroit? http://www.sadlyno.com/archive s/6585.html |
Spacemonkey Member Username: Spacemonkey
Post Number: 320 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 1:16 pm: | |
I don't believe the hype. I believe my eyes. I was in Downtown Detroit just yesterday, drove down Woodward from the burbs for a job interview in the Ren Cen. The city is depressing and ugly; same as when I lived downtown in the early 90's, except maybe now there's a new building or two. Big deal. A little improvement is a start, but the city has a hell of a long way to go to be anything but third rate. |
Rb336 Member Username: Rb336
Post Number: 5613 Registered: 02-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 1:25 pm: | |
^my guess is you find strip malls - oh, excuse me, "lifestyle centers" and the bland Troy-style architecture "attractive" |
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill
Post Number: 578 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 1:30 pm: | |
Well I have been in this city for 18 years ( with the exception of 3 in between) and have seen more negative descriptions of Detroit that I care to mention. I have also lived in three other major cities in my lifetime, all for at least 3 years. There is no doubt there are many negative things about Detroit but I am constantly seeing many positives, which re affirms my faith. The Downtown alone has made enormous progress in the last 5 years. I only wish many on here could have seen what living downtown was like in 1992. There is no comparison in the quality of life. Unfortunately many neighborhoods have gone in the opposite direction. I will continue to look for the positives, I only wish the media would recognize more.. Believe me , many , many of our problems exist in abundance in many "successful" cities, yet its citizens dont get worked up over it the way we do..They dwell on the positives, you really create your own image in certain respects. |
Realitycheck Member Username: Realitycheck
Post Number: 570 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 1:32 pm: | |
Agreed: Detroit's glass isn't full of champagne. Suggested: Rather than dwelling on some of the sad facts all (or even most) of the time, we can each try to see, support and spread the word about the not-so-sad facts about our city and region. No, don't ignore or stop trying to fix what's busted. And no, optimism doesn't mean being a Pollyanna who thinks a miracle turnaround is right around the next corner -- yes, a corner that may have a broken streetlight. A Chicago Sun-Times writer spent a few days here recently and spread the word Sunday about why "Detroit is no longer marginal," as noted in another thread today. Crain'sDetBiz publisher Mary Kramer blogged yesterday, under the headline Not everybody is bailing on Detroit, about:quote:". . . the opinions of more than 150 under-30 people who want to be here and have suggestions for attracting more young adults. If we ignore what they're telling us, it's at our own peril. Besides, wouldn't you rather read comments from 20-somethings who feel good about living and working here than the latest chapter in the mayoral saga? And in Feb., a young DetRegionalChamber staff member named Jacquie Trost blogged at MetroMode:quote:The only hope the City has is for us "cheerleaders" to talk about Detroit. Maybe then more people will come downtown, pumping more money into the local economy, creating more City jobs, justifying more reliable city services and amenities, ultimately attracting more people to move downtown. In fact, I think an endorsement by a non-Detroit resident is a positive thing -- especially if that person has had negative experiences in the City. I’ve taken relatives and friends to areas downtown they never knew existed, to eat at restaurant they’ve never heard about, and to see new developments being built. Every time, those same people are surprised at what’s going on downtown, mentioning how they are now going to promote the positive changes in Detroit. The only way to combat Detroit’s perception is through education. I'm confident I'm not the only one here and throughout our region who'd also rather read or hear those kind of comments than unproductive, unconstructive suggestions that we acknowledge "horrible city services, extremely high taxes, horrible high school graduation rates, teacher walkouts over the charter school offer, etc." as a repetitive exercise in self-flaggelation that somehow will help us "get past them." I acknowledge, OK? I'll also condemn or denounce or reject, if that's what it takes. Enough. |
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2934 Registered: 04-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 1:44 pm: | |
Well, when you have a city that is primarily inhabited by poor residents don't be surprised when you get a poor city! No region in this country has fixed that. Other regions have only shifted the problem away from the city. The Detroit area did the opposite; they shifted the focus away from the city. |
Crumbled_pavement Member Username: Crumbled_pavement
Post Number: 310 Registered: 08-2007
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 1:54 pm: | |
Realitycheck, you can't do both on this site. Either you only see the good or you only see the bad. A balanced view around here is not appreciated or respected. |
Spacemonkey Member Username: Spacemonkey
Post Number: 322 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 2:06 pm: | |
Rb336, yes. Yes indeed I do find new construction, be it strip mall or other more attractive than dirty, busted out decaying structures. Who wouldn't? I understand and appreciate the fact that some of the old Detroit buildings have beautiful designs, but whoop-dee-do. That doesn't mean much when the building are in ill repair and surround by filth. Give me a new strip mall over garbage any day. |
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710
Post Number: 421 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 2:39 pm: | |
I think Crumbled_pavement made a fair point. Clearly, there are good things and bad about the city. Only by acknowledging both are we taking a realistic view of things. |
Dtowncitylover Member Username: Dtowncitylover
Post Number: 11 Registered: 02-2008
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 3:26 pm: | |
Whoever wrote the article needs to get his dates correct. The riots happened in 1967 not 1968. |
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5692 Registered: 10-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 4:18 pm: | |
Remember when Compuware moved downtown? The newspapers churned out articles (probably written by Compuware...) stating that downtown would be resettled by Compuware and other CBD firm's employees, requiring academic DPS schools downtown to be built to handle all that influx. What happened? |
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit
Post Number: 1596 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 4:19 pm: | |
"I think Crumbled_pavement made a fair point. Clearly, there are good things and bad about the city. Only by acknowledging both are we taking a realistic view of things. ^^^That may be true but how many ways can one or does one want to bruise morale? We all know the facts... we get it! BUT, shouldn't we be solution oriented and also action oriented? |
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall
Post Number: 843 Registered: 05-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 4:37 pm: | |
I'd like to see those five positive articles. I'm all for good news. |
Illwill Member Username: Illwill
Post Number: 111 Registered: 11-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 5:08 pm: | |
I think DetroitBill made a very valid point. Most big cities (including the 2 big ones) have many of the same issues that Detroit has, but you never hear the outside media taking swipes at them. One reason is because the surrounding areas support these other cities regardless of their ills. We need a more supportive region. |
Realitycheck Member Username: Realitycheck
Post Number: 572 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 5:37 pm: | |
. . . how many ways can one or does one want to bruise morale? . . . we get it! Thanks for the echo, VizionDetroit. Solutions + actions trump wailing + whining -- anywhere, anytime. Enough morale-bruising. More vision. (Or vizion |
Pam Member Username: Pam
Post Number: 3809 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, April 01, 2008 - 5:50 pm: | |
quote:I'd like to see those five positive articles. I'm all for good news. Check this site regularly: http://www.modeldmedia.com/ |