  Gaz Member Username: Gaz Post Number: 1 Registered: 04-2008 |
I was married in June of 1965, and went to Detroit to meet my new family. I was totally blown away by the city. It was so vibrant and alive. Being from Houston, I had never seen anything but new cities (mostly in Texas) and had never seen such architecture. It had a sense of permanence that other cities didn't have. My new relatives lived on Gilchrist, Archdale, Coyle, Grandmont and outer Drive - all beautiful old neighborhoods - the grand old houses with their sloping roofs and BASEMENTS blew me away. I remember driving down Grand River, listening to Motown on the radio, going to Elias Brothers for a hamburger and coke. It's memories that can never be taken away from me. My husband and I had planned on making Detroit our home when he got out of the military, but three days after we came back, the riots broke out. He was disgusted, saying that Detroit would never be the same, and he didn't want to stay there. I was sad to leave. I haven't been back at all since the 1970's, when most of the family left, scattered around the country. I think that even more than the riots, outsourcing is responsible for Detroit's situation. | ||
Chuckjav Member Username: Chuckjav Post Number: 480 Registered: 09-2007 |
Gaz...I enjoyed reading your post; reminded me quite a bit of the time frame during which my family was introduced to Detroit - albeit a much different neighborhood (lower east side, near old Miller High School). We had relocated from Mount Pleasant in June of 1965; spent the next 28 months in a 100 year-old rental with gas lights, rats and quadrillions of roaches. Yet & still - Detroit was the place to be; it was an awe inspiring city back then. I truly believe that the death-blow for Detroit came on April 04, 1968...with the assassination of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. On Friday, April 05, the unmitigated rage unleashed in city schools communicated in no uncertain terms....Get Out Now! From that day on, things only got worse. | ||
Snoringbeagle Member Username: Snoringbeagle Post Number: 6 Registered: 02-2008 |
I remember April 4 1968. I was at Kettering Senior High when we heard. The fear I had in my mind never materialized. It was no where near the rage shown during the riots. I went home taking the alley ways avoiding any roving gangs. There were none. The next day was Saturday there was no school. 4-4-68 was a Friday, That is something straight out of my memory cause it had such an effect on me. Just a poor white boy at the time. | ||
Gaz Member Username: Gaz Post Number: 3 Registered: 04-2008 |
There had to have been a lot of contriburing factors to Detroit's decline. Poor political choices had to play a role, too, and from what I understand, a down-sized, overworked police force. I have to believe that it will turn around, but the first step has got to be responsible political leadership. | ||
Whittier70 Member Username: Whittier70 Post Number: 118 Registered: 02-2008 |
I really enjoy hearing everybody's story about how Detroit was before all of the crime and blight. I was born just after those dates above so I can only live it through the stories from the people who were fortunate enough to be there in Detroit's prime. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 10328 Registered: 09-2005 |
Gaz said: "I think that even more than the riots, outsourcing is responsible for Detroit's situation." Sorry, Gaz. All the jobs and good politics in the world won't help Detroit. Only when values are instilled in the HOME, which then produces caring, loving, sober, thoughtful and often spiritual people who go out into the city, will Detroit change. | ||
Gaz Member Username: Gaz Post Number: 6 Registered: 04-2008 |
You are right, Karl. If the child is raised with no value systems, that child is lost. Still, it seems to me that Detroit needs jobs and decent politicians...Kwame is all over the news here in Arizona, too. | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 1153 Registered: 11-2006 |
Well, the physical demise of the city certainly seems to have started with the riots. | ||
D2dyeah Member Username: D2dyeah Post Number: 107 Registered: 09-2005 |
There were riots in other cities and they survived. Karl is right. It starts at home. | ||
Snoringbeagle Member Username: Snoringbeagle Post Number: 8 Registered: 02-2008 |
All I know is I never felt safe in all my young years in Detroit. I endured. Had my boy scout watch stolen while I was a safety patrol boy at Rose elementary. Palmer and Baldwin, 5th grade I believe. Teen thugs. Man, was I dumb but learned quickly. Was the first of my family to leave the area. Everybody is still there just moved further out. When I visit it's a shame. All the talk about riots, outsourcing this and that and all I can come up with is... I never felt safe there. Always on guard. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 10331 Registered: 09-2005 |
D2dyeah - Sorry to disagree, but here is my observation: If a city has had the combo of a majority African American population and rioting, that city is lost, perhaps for our lifetimes. Examples: Detroit Newark New Orleans Gary Watts (perhaps there are others) Gaz, if you research the riots, you'll find that many of the rioters (including those killed) had good jobs. Politics were as good/bad as in any major American city at the time, and the auto industry (along with everything else) was bustling. Check out the homes, and the dynamics therein. You'll find the problem. During the era, the Detroit-born-and-raised Temptations sang a song that encapsulates it all - a million-seller you still hear today: Here are the lyrics: Papa Was A Rollin' Stone It was the third of September. That day I'll always remember, yes I will. 'Cause that was the day that my daddy died. I never got a chance to see him. Never heard nothing but bad things about him. Mama, I'm depending on you to tell me the truth. And Mama just hung her head and said, "Son, Papa was a rolling stone. Wherever he laid his hat was his home. (And when he died) All he left us was alone." "Papa was a rolling stone, my son. Wherever he laid his hat was his home. (And when he died) All he left us was alone." Well, well Hey Mama, is it true what they say, that Papa never worked a day in his life? And Mama, some bad talk going around town saying that Papa had three outside children and another wife. And that ain't right. Hey, talk about Papa doing some store front preaching. Talked about saving souls and all the time leeching. Dealing in debt and stealing in the name of the Lord. Mama just hung her head and said, "Papa was a rolling stone, my son. Wherever he laid his hat was his home. (And when he died) All he left us was alone." "Hey, Papa was a rolling stone. Wherever he laid his hat was his home. (And when he died) All he left us was alone." Ugh Hey Mama, I heard Papa called himself a jack of all trades. Tell me is that what sent Papa to an early grave? Folks say Papa would beg, borrow, steal to pay his bills. Hey Mama, folks say that Papa was never much on thinking. Spent most of his life chasing women and drinking. Mama, I'm depending on you to tell me the truth. And Mama looked up with a tear in her eye and said, "Son, Papa was a rolling stone. (Well, well, well, well) Wherever he laid his hat was his home. (And when he died) All he left us was alone, lone, lone, lone, alone." "Papa was a rolling stone. Wherever he laid his hat was his home. (And when he died) All he left us was alone." "I said, Papa was a rolling stone. Wherever he laid his hat was his home. (And when he died) All he left us was alone." (instead of "alone" some versions say "a loan") | ||
D2dyeah Member Username: D2dyeah Post Number: 108 Registered: 09-2005 |
Karl..... You are right. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 10334 Registered: 09-2005 |
D2dyeah, I take no pleasure or credit in being right - it is a huge problem/ongoing tragedy with a simple solution that folks run from - all the while pointing everywhere else as "the problem" Just keep pointing folks in the right direction - you can forget where you saw/read the solution, since it's been the solution since the beginning of time. It takes a man & woman to create a child, and the same to raise 'em. | ||
Gaz Member Username: Gaz Post Number: 8 Registered: 04-2008 |
I was in Detroit when the riots started. I was staying on Coyle Ave. near Plymouth (it was a nice, friendly blue-collar type neighborhood then.) Because there was a curfew in effect, I stayed close to the house. One of the neighbors had a short wave radio outside on his porch, and lots of the neighbors were on his porch, listening. They were discussing causes of the riots. One of the neighbors said at the time that many of the rioters were most likely products of broken homes. Makes sense. | ||
Snoringbeagle Member Username: Snoringbeagle Post Number: 9 Registered: 02-2008 |
Ok,if Karl is right. It starts at home. What is it ? Is it Cultural? Is it Genetic. Is it taking the low road or was it a victim of circumstances? | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 10336 Registered: 09-2005 |
Snoringbeagle, sorry, but I don't have time to play "let's chase our tails" today. Please re-read my post #10331 above. If you don't get "it" (which is quite simple) finish high school, get a job for 2 years, and then see if you don't understand it a bit better then. If you've already done those things, then try www.family.org and click on "Parenting" | ||
Gaz Member Username: Gaz Post Number: 10 Registered: 04-2008 |
I used to live in Lake Elsinore, CA., between LA and San Diego. Watts has changed demographically. When used to be mostly black is now hispanic and black, and unfortunately, there is a lot of tension between the black and hispanics there. At least Detroit doesn't have that problem. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 10337 Registered: 09-2005 |
I think the best thing that could happen in Detroit is a new "group" of "outsiders" who would appreciate the infrastructure that is already there: streets, all utilities, many viable & inexpensive buildings. If 500,000 Asians, Mexicans, or others came to the D and settled, ready to work and live in one of the greatest, freest places on Earth, the little "tension" created by such an influx would be wonderful for Detroit. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 3846 Registered: 11-2005 |
quote: Why don't you come back for a visit? There are a lot of positive things happening despite what the naysayers on here would have you believe. Here is a good site to check out: http://www.modeldmedia.com/ | ||
Snoringbeagle Member Username: Snoringbeagle Post Number: 10 Registered: 02-2008 |
Now I see why you don't get it Karl. Thanks for the kind reply. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1915 Registered: 09-2007 |
Pam, I think Gaz would he highly disappointed by the neighborhoods if he were to come back now. However, I do agree, there have been a lot of positive things happening and Downtown is looking good as ever. | ||
Gaz Member Username: Gaz Post Number: 12 Registered: 04-2008 |
Even now, a part of me regrets leaving Detroit. After all these years, I've never come across a place quite like it - even though I know it is a very different place now. Maybe some day I can come back, who knows? This forum, and touring the Fabulous Ruins of Detroit, draw interest to the city, I'm sure. It's a city that deserves to be rediscovered. | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 1159 Registered: 11-2006 |
I like your username Snoringbeagle. Everytime I see it I smile. And, welcome to DY - hope you have fun! | ||
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55 Post Number: 1453 Registered: 09-2005 |
Oh, good - ANOTHER thread where the old man can spread his manure. 25 of them aren't enough on the non-Detroit side. Obsessive. Pathetic. | ||
Tponetom Member Username: Tponetom Post Number: 291 Registered: 06-2007 |
Karl: Re: your post (#10328) and quote from same. "All the jobs and good politics in the world won't help Detroit. Only when values are instilled in the HOME, which then produces caring, loving, sober, thoughtful and often spiritual people who go out into the city, will Detroit change." I could not condense that statement any more succinctly or make it more emphatic. Your subject, "people" (of Detroit) has always been the foundation of most of my stories. Sadly, if a person has not had the benefits of living in that other world of "Old Detroit" that I so avidly regale, it would be hard to comprehend such an environment. Perhaps the REALITY of understanding it, is to simplistic in the complicated world we live in today. P. S. I can't remember if I posted my story about that Frenchman who paddled upstream from Montreal and made it to the docks of the Detroit Boat Club. That was around 1700 or something. Ahh, forget about it. No one would believe what happened after that | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 65 Registered: 03-2008 |
I agree, "it" starts in the home. I think the problem is that to many parents really are doing their best, but have no idea what "it" is. Without that knowledge, history might just keep repeating. I think I get what Snoringbeagle is saying. How do you teach parents how to be good parents when they have never seen good parenting themselves? More importantly, is how do you teach these parents who got married to young to be good parents. Have you guys ever been to a bar or singles club and noticed how many middle age former teen parents seem to revert back to their twenties mentality after a divorce? It may start in the home. The problem is the definition of "it" might be much more complicated than it seems. | ||
Gaz Member Username: Gaz Post Number: 18 Registered: 04-2008 |
"It" was the core of the Detroit I remember. And other cities, too. While "it" still exists in many places, "it" seems to be scarce in inner cities today. | ||
Fishtoes2000 Member Username: Fishtoes2000 Post Number: 482 Registered: 06-2005 |
Ah, let's talk about the values of the good old Detroit. The ones that meant tolerating racial discrimination, intolerance and environmental injustice. It was those "values" that fueled Detroit's riots. Those "values" made major contributions to Detroit's problems today. I can't help think of the old athlete joke, "the older I get, the better I was." | ||
Gertrude Member Username: Gertrude Post Number: 71 Registered: 05-2005 |
Exactly Fishtoes2000. Let's all just huddle together and blame "those people" while ignoring that the exodus started long before the riots. And the blacks had their historical neighborhoods bulldozed while also restricted from moving where their income peers could. I call a moratorium on blaming the riots of 67 for the problems of Detroit. The ugly seeds of that week had already been planted by 1940. | ||
Gaz Member Username: Gaz Post Number: 19 Registered: 04-2008 |
Detroit WAS - and has potential to be again - a really great city. I would like to see that happen in my lifetime, and I believe it can. My problem is, I can't figure out how to do it. There was goodness and decency in Detroit also. I never lived in Detroit, although I wanted to. I am from Houston, where there was racial injustice also. Although I was young, and my mother feared for my safety, I did march in several civil rights marches there, because I believed in it. And I get very tired of people blaming me for policies I had nothing to do with, and tried to change. |
