 
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 2124
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 2:10 pm: |    |
This weekend, I biked through Woodbridge and took some photos. Along the way, I noticed that, depending on which side of Gibson you're on, you're either in Woodbridge or in the development that has replaced much of the old projects west of the Lodge. Two neighborhoods couldn't feel more different. Here's the photo tour:
The above photo is of the condo-style units on the Lodge side of the development. Here one sees regimented order, an attempt to have a bit of density. Unfortunately, due to the park-in-rear nature of the development, it's unlikely this "semi-urban" setting will have any street life. Since there is no commercial development within a few hundred yards, there is no reason to walk out of or into the neighborhood.
Above: The developments get less dense and more suburban-looking as you go north and west. Here, despite the quaint small homes and spacious greensward, the boulevard-style street seems designed to have traffic speed through. Though it's early days yet, doesn't this vista look disturbingly austere?
Above: At least there are some small touches that show a desire to appeal to children, although it's poorly designed. Without mature trees to shade this play area, it'll likely be baking hot in the summer. At least it looks welcoming enough ...
... at first glance, that is. The new ethos of the neighborhood seems to be, welcome home, but only if you live here. "Public space" re-envisioned as private domain.
Above: Is this how we intend to revitalize our urban areas? By devoting thousands of square feet of land around homes to monoculture? Bland and uninspiring, it seems doomed to try bringing back the city with the failed dreams of the 20th century.
Above: The neighborhood's Motown-oriented street names are a ghostly reminder of the city that once sprawled here. Though the concrete is new and sparkling clean, it's unlikely the same street life that had harmonizers crooning on the corner can happen here.
JUST ON THE OTHER SIDE OF GIBSON IN WOODBRIDGE:
Above: The curbs are dirty old limestone and the grass isn't manicured, but there is life and diversity here. On this fine day, gardeners were already breaking ground behind the first house on the left, and a variety of old trees provide windbreaks and shelter to those walking down the street. The architectural variety makes a walk down the street much less boring.
Above: Across the street, even the sidewalk has variety. Some of it concrete, part of it bricked in by a homeowner. A variety of old and new trees provide welcoming shade. The density and closeness of the houses gives a sheltering feeling. Off in the distance, the new casino-based city is visible, but softened.
Above: Looking north, the sun is kind to the older buildings, whose diverse styles and landscaping make the neighborhood interesting to look at. Which street would you rather walk along? This one? Or brand-new Contours Lane? |
Andylinn
Member
Username: Andylinn
Post Number: 795
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 2:15 pm: | |
that's actually pretty funny. the gardeners you refer to are my friends paul and mary! that's pretty awesome... good analysis on that shit-style project. those suburban style neighborhoods going up in the city suck. - andy |
Pam
Member
Username: Pam
Post Number: 3890
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 2:19 pm: | |
What is the occupancy rate on the "suburban style" developments? If they are full, then it shows that some people don't mind living there. Not everybody has the time and money to invest in rehabbing old homes. What is wrong with having a choice? |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 2125
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 2:21 pm: | |
Andy, that's so funny! They were friendly. When I was biking by they said hello. Much more welcoming than at "friends and guests only-ville" next door! |
Digitalvision
Member
Username: Digitalvision
Post Number: 718
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 2:24 pm: | |
I think both have their places, Detroitnerd. Instead of judging folks because they're situation may be different than yours, I think we should be welcoming to the diverse kinds of development happening.
I like the look of those rowhouses... if you look in other cities, rowhouses have almost always looked the same, or close to it.
The standards of modern living are different than they were 50 years ago; you can't fault developers for building what they see or what they have demand for. That's the free market.
Would you rather of the development never happened and those residents set up shop in Troy or farther out? That land continue to be a burden on the tax rolls - and all of us taxpayers? |
Miketoronto
Member
Username: Miketoronto
Post Number: 858
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 2:25 pm: | |
I get what you are talking about concerning these developments. The only problem is a large section of old Detroit, is this very kind of housing, just built 50 years prior. Large portions of Detroit are very suburban with a streetcar suburb slant to them.
So one could say that these new developments are just a modern version of older Detroit neighbourhoods located closer to the edge of the city. |
Shark
Member
Username: Shark
Post Number: 353
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 2:30 pm: | |
I like the new developments. For every nice or unique house in Detroit, there are about 5 garbage houses, so any new housing stock is a good thing. While you bemoan the loss of urban street-corner crooners, I bet the people that actually live in the houses celebrate the lack of street-corner dope pushers and layabouts. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2981
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 2:34 pm: | |
quote:So one could say that these new developments are just a modern version of older Detroit neighbourhoods located closer to the edge of the city.
The key point being that they were located closer to the edge of the city. Not a stones throw from downtown. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2982
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 2:37 pm: | |
It just really does not make sense to me.
Why is Detroit trying to compete with the suburbs on being a suburb? That's not gonna save your city. |
Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc
Post Number: 4111
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 2:41 pm: | |
quote:While you bemoan the loss of urban street-corner crooners, I bet the people that actually live in the houses celebrate the lack of street-corner dope pushers and layabouts.
Vinyl siding has nothing to do with getting rid of "dope pushers and layabouts". |
Gaz
Member
Username: Gaz
Post Number: 56
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 2:47 pm: | |
The 5th picture down looks a lot what I live in now, only because I am in the desert, the houses are stucco with tile roofs. Monoculture is a great word for it! Scroll down to the older houses. Those are the ones with character! Unfortunately here, just about everything is new, and I miss the older houses! |
Diehard
Member
Username: Diehard
Post Number: 455
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 2:48 pm: | |
Good points, but they sure beat a bunch of high-rise projects. Also, I appreciate that they at least went for a rowhouse style, rather than those typical suburban houses where all you see is a garage staring at you (and no sidewalks at all).
Mature trees will have to come in time. First off, they couldn't have logistically built a new development around a bunch of older trees. Second, how many would've been diseased ashes that would have to come down anyway? Many older neighborhoods are stuck with a bunch of brittle dead trees that are more of a liability now than an asset. Sad, but that's another topic.
The "residents only" playlot cheeses me off, though. |
6nois
Member
Username: 6nois
Post Number: 698
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 2:50 pm: | |
There is nothing completely and totally inherently bad about the new developments. They are not perfect but the row house area has a nice street facade, even the home area has a density to it that works. It is a bit early to judge street traffic meaning that not all the lots look to be built on. Also you argue that there is a lack of retail to give reason for people to walk the same could be said for the older areas of Woodbridge which by no means is chuck full or retail or retail space. Also trees have been planted but they need time to mature at one point in time the majestic trees of Woodbridge were small too. I would say its too early to judge the development. It is not perfect but it is a start. |
Mbr
Member
Username: Mbr
Post Number: 371
Registered: 03-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 2:58 pm: | |
Detroitnerd, Are you joking? Do you know anything about the history of this development?
1. This project provides a significant portion of low income housing, a good thing.
2. The original plan for this area was for 100% single family homes. Be happy you got any density.
3. Although you may not have noticed, some of those structures that look like single family homes are actually multi-family with 4-6 units.
4. Government money subsidized this entire project making it feasible. Without it you would see a big vacant dirt lot. Again, be happy anything was built there at all.
5. This is not private at all. There are no gates, there are multiple access points integrated with the existing road network. Again, it could have easily been 100% gated with a security guard.
6. Have you spent any appreciable time in this development? It is not even completed yet and it is quite vibrant. People actually walk around the neighborhood and say hello to their neighbors.
7. Mature trees? There were never mature trees there to begin with so I don't know how you plan on magically creating those. Have you ever looked at pictures of detroit neighborhoods in the 1930's when the houses were new? There were no mature trees then either. It takes time.
8. Yes it is unfortunate there is no commercial in the development, but there's is still a vacant area on MLK that could support it in the future.
9. If anything this development enhances the surrounding neighborhood and will help bridge the gap that exists between the Lodge and Woodbridge.
Just my thoughts, feel free to disagree. |
Digitalvision
Member
Username: Digitalvision
Post Number: 719
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 2:59 pm: | |
I think Detroit is trying to fill the demand of what people want.
One of the reasons we're continuing to see mass exodus (and yes, continuing) is that the housing stock doesn't match the needs or wants of many families. Most of those families being black who are leaving the city in droves, to houses like the suburban house because that's their dream for their children.
Even stately and urban Grosse Pointe has been taking a pretty big hit because the houses are too old or lots too small for most people.
The reality is that people are busy and for the most part (a) don't want to invest in a rehab and (b) want room sizes that are larger than they used to be.
May I also remind folks - downtown and it's denseness was never that far out into the neighborhoods. The city council consistently prohibited the construction of apartment buildings for various reasons (mostly racial - apartments attracted "negroes." Do some history reading). We've never been that dense.
There used to be houses on the side of the Fox theatre, according to a conversation I had with Jams once. Most of today's condos and apartments downtown or midtown are in old buildings that used to be offices or industrial commercial structures.
I've heard people joke that Detroit is a "big small town," and there is a lot of historical truth to that.
(Message edited by digitalvision on April 09, 2008) |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 2127
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 3:01 pm: | |
No, not joking, not kidding at all. Posting the photo tour and standing back, letting you guys do the talking.  |
Sirrealone
Member
Username: Sirrealone
Post Number: 134
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 3:02 pm: | |
It shows that building styles are more (or at least as much) defined by the time that it was built, and not necessarily by location (city vs. suburbs). |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 706
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 3:48 pm: | |
Where people prefer to mingle and socialize they will find a way. Architecture & lay-out might facilitate or impede, but it will not create or completely kill the urge. My read is that large elements of society have changed, and the time of storied street-corner doo-wop and stickball are gone because they've been 'voted down' by electronica & other individual activities ("Bowling Alone," anyone?), as well as a general weakening of historic group identities.
A comment about the pictures, though: they all look pretty dead/all devoid of people. Reflective of what I've described & the time of year?
Finally, density + disposable income + safety + competitive landscape = retail offerings. If there's none "here," then which element(s) is/are missing? |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 2983
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 3:51 pm: | |
quote:Where people prefer to mingle and socialize they will find a way. Architecture & lay-out might facilitate or impede, but it will not create or completely kill the urge. My read is that large elements of society have changed, and the time of storied street-corner doo-wop and stickball are gone because they've been 'voted down' by electronica & other individual activities ("Bowling Alone," anyone?), as well as a general weakening of historic group identities.
Or maybe this was encouraged by the current housing trends in your area? I don't see any of that where I live. |
Spacemonkey
Member
Username: Spacemonkey
Post Number: 362
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 3:59 pm: | |
I would want gun turrets on the top of mine and plenty of barbed wire. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 707
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 4:02 pm: | |
^ I'm in suburbia now (live there, anyway) and my streets are crowded with kids playing in crowds. Adults... not so much. What's become clear to me, though, is that the adults are not congregating on porches and in the driveway as in days of old; look on the back deck or around a dining room table and you'll find the friends gathered. To be fair, though, my last years in the City didn't see impromptu public socialization among adults or even children.
(Message edited by craig on April 09, 2008) |
Bragaboutme
Member
Username: Bragaboutme
Post Number: 140
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 4:07 pm: | |
Before the depression the book brothers had a hundred thousand dollar bet with a wealthy New Yorker (Rockafeller?) that Detroit would beat out New York in terms of population by 1950. The influx of people at that time brought many of problems for downtowns housing, many homes were demolished for buildings, then the depression hit and stalled all development. Thus giving us an area of a "big small town", feel and look. |
Bearinabox
Member
Username: Bearinabox
Post Number: 582
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 4:20 pm: | |
quote:What's become clear to me, though, is that the adults are not congregating on porches and in the driveway as in days of old; look on the back deck or around a dining room table and you'll find the friends gathered. I don't know about where you live, but many new houses don't HAVE front porches or driveways. They just have huge garages front and center, and maybe a token concrete slab at the front door. |
Spacemonkey
Member
Username: Spacemonkey
Post Number: 364
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 4:22 pm: | |
I do not have a front porch on my Rochester Hills home. Houses out our way have back patios to lounge on. |
Chitaku
Member
Username: Chitaku
Post Number: 1947
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 4:36 pm: | |
that's my house homey, the gardeners live above me and are my dear pals. We back up to the new houses and while they are "suburban" you have to admit it is better than nothing. My GF met the developer at work and you can blame my landlord for the shoddy grass. Although i'm trying to purchase a lawnmower so i can just do it myself |
French777
Member
Username: French777
Post Number: 400
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 4:40 pm: | |
same here Spacemonkey!
In Rochester Hills we don't have front porches we have back porches.
I think we should appreciate that it is some sort of development. You can't pick and choose!
This means more Tax dollars for the City! |
Chitaku
Member
Username: Chitaku
Post Number: 1948
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 4:43 pm: | |
front porches are the way to go |
7andkelly
Member
Username: 7andkelly
Post Number: 64
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 4:44 pm: | |
Take a ride on the east side over by Celestine and Linhurst. 3/4 or more of the lots are either empty, abandoned or burnt out. Sad to say, it looks like a war zone. For all we know, it may be.
But there is a ray of hope. A few suburban style ranches are starting to appear on the landscape. They are like the first saplings to appear after a forest fire. |
Detroit313
Member
Username: Detroit313
Post Number: 635
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 4:44 pm: | |
It's good to see the infill of Detroit first. At least we are seeing investment in Detroit again no matter large or small.
<313> |
Digitalvision
Member
Username: Digitalvision
Post Number: 722
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 09, 2008 - 4:45 pm: | |
Love to hear the opinion of someone actually in the neighborhood, Chitaku.
What is your sense of the occupancy of the new stuff? I could drive over there but I can't get a sense of what's going on just by going through it a couple times like you who live there can.
And totally agree - front porches DO rock.
(Message edited by digitalvision on April 09, 2008) |