  Tkshreve Member Username: Tkshreve Post Number: 262 Registered: 07-2006 |
Chalmers / Jefferson area is pretty vacant. But...... below Jefferson all the way to the lake still supports blocks full of houses. Those houses are pretty big and mostly inhabited. Frankly, having the east side scarce of houses is a good thing. At one point someone was tearing a lot of houses down. Don't know when, but they did a good job clearing that large city area. Now that area is that much closer to being ready for revitalization. If you want to see something interesting, look up that area on a satellite imagery and you can see how clear that area is of houses. Then look at the other side of Jefferson and Alter. Pretty big difference. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1427 Registered: 09-2007 |
Many of the homes in that area were probably demolished because they were Crack homes. Was this area not the notorious Crack Alley? | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 973 Registered: 07-2007 |
Yeah. I kind of agree with the last two posts There was a certain amount of vigilance in taking care of the blight problem. I hope the new homeowners and developers build the right housing. | ||
Hamtragedy Member Username: Hamtragedy Post Number: 60 Registered: 10-2007 |
That whole section was left to rot when the Jefferson North Plant was allowed to close off Charlevoix, Vernor, and Kercheval. I remember walking to and from the church where my father was a minister (church still there @ Lakeview & Vernor) in the early, early 70's, with my mom, who's small town Ohio. We lived on Lakewood across Mack, but some of the houses I remember are still there (barely). I drove her thru there a couple years ago, she was SHOCKED to see the neighborhood south of Mack almost completely gone, in only 30 plus years. He later had a church at the corner of Charlevoix @ Fairview (first blk west of St. Jean?) and the members of that congregation fought pretty hard to resist eminent domain for the expanded plant, (E of St, Jean). One Lonnie Bates (pre-corruption) cut his teeth there. They lost, obviously, but I do remember riding the DSR bus up St. Jean to get there from our house on Bewick. | ||
Vetalalumni Member Username: Vetalalumni Post Number: 921 Registered: 05-2007 |
East State Fair between John R and I-75 was a rough area years ago. Rented a flat there in the mid 80s for a year while I was still single. There were several murders and lots of street crime. Not a place to raise a family. | ||
Wfw Member Username: Wfw Post Number: 328 Registered: 03-2004 |
A few years back my job often took me to the Harper/Van Dyke area. That's definitely one of the rougher areas I've seen. The residential streets look like a mouth with missing teeth - house, vacant lot, vacant lot, vacant lot, house, house, vacant lot, vacant lot, etc... | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 1123 Registered: 07-2007 |
Let me parse this post if I may be so bold. "Danny - All parts of Detroit are worst. Remember that all of Detroit is a ghetto, and the people are a part of it. I grew up the ghetto. I lived in the ghetto and most blacks want to keep it that way. After 263 years, (from 1701 to 1975) White folks lost possession of Detroit because of fear of black folks and its going to take a long time to reclaim it back. There are some PRIME DEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITY real estate hidden in over 40,000 vacant lots with empowerment zone tax breaks. Only you have to do is stop being fearful of blacks who are living there and get along with them. "Don't think of me as a crazy Street Prophet on crack and weed for I have seen this social problems for 30 years of my life. I have been doing some research of why Detroit is black and the suburbs are white and the answers is right in the local news, radio, movies, internet and the people in the streets." Me: First sentence is bad grammar, The Manoogian Mansion is a ghetto area? Palmer Park? 2nd - So you are saying that black people do not want to live in nice areas? Is that why over 40,000 people move out of Detroit every year? Whites lost political clout yes, but own a substantial real estate portfolio in Detroit, except for the public places which have gone downhill, (you got me there). It's not about being fearful of blacks or whoever. It is about getting a return on your investment which is very difficult to do most times. And yes, also not being killed in the process. People don't think you are crazy we all have seen social ills in our lifetime. Many just see it as another normal attitude of how most Detroiter's look at outsiders. Danny, Here is your quote, what is the answer? "I have been doing some research of why Detroit is black and the suburbs are white and the answers is right in the local news, radio, movies, internet and the people in the streets." | ||
N7hn Member Username: N7hn Post Number: 3 Registered: 02-2008 |
I think part of the problem (dont know if its covered in here already) is the high tax rate in the city compared to the property values. It takes away any benefit of buying a reasonable or outright cheap. Most of the tax records I see show average taxes at about $4000 a year, about twice what records reflect for say suburban Troy. FOr many that alone is a deal breaker, specially considering the quality of public education and the quality of city services. | ||
Digitaldom Member Username: Digitaldom Post Number: 661 Registered: 08-2004 |
If that's the case with alot of these properties.. that the buyer is liable for back taxes and otherwise.. who EVER would want to buy one of these properties.. In my mind someone buying a property should be exempt from these sort of burdens... it's not the buyers fault on taxes and otherwise.. it should start at ground zero.. I also heard just in the Detroit News today that zero down morgage's are going to be rare and in between.. The house flippers.. If they are still in business in this area are never going to take on any properties in this economony.. It's a sad spiral.. Maybe if we start demo'ing those houses that have not paid taxes for 10 years.. we will get a start.. a vacant field yields less crime and honestly less bad image for the neighborhood.. I know it's a bad way to think.. but a crack house on your block? What would you do? Since you can't do anything without worrying about reprise from those crack heads.. there not completely dumb.. That's the issue with alot of crime in the neighborhoods.. and it's a REAL issue TOO!! May would say on this board well just rat them out? DO you have any reality what that means for that person? You could have a number on your head doing so.. bc the community of crime doers (and supporters) well out weights the good citizens which is sad.. (yeah it only takes a few to make this happen.. you value your life over rating out the few) It's an oppressive grip on the neighborhood that needs to be ratted out by the police.. As soon as the police relief that pressure and fear.. trust me on this.. people WILL come forward... I think the city.. needs to send city workers street BY street through out all of the city.. and document every single house.. and go forward from there.. It's how we do things on IT.. we take a survey of EVERY single asset.. we classify it.. We hit each SITE with a revengance.. NOT one of 2 houses.. The WHOLE area at once.. a whole neighbor.. target that neighborhood.. Come down strong... Let me outline my plan.. First you target a neighborhood.. Police lay undercover and see how the neighborhood really is.. The assessors come in.. and see how the neighborhood really is.. and who owns what, what is vacant.. then we strike.. We target the crack houses.. Get rid of them completely with heavy police presense.. Having known during the assetments which houses are truely occupied we know where the roaches will run.. We keep the police harden in that area.. Until the city government can demo those properties.. they need to construct VERY specific rules on housing up keep.. If you do not fullfil those rules.. your house will be demoed and the lot sold of in audition after say 6 months.. Then after those homes are demoed are sold.. we move on to the next area.. we do this city wide.. In 6 block segments.. with 4 or 6 teams targeting different areas.. You could target 4 neighborhoods next to each other for a greater affect.. and sharing of resources.. You hit the worst neighorhoods first.. Would this work? It could happen.. This would net ALOT of criminals and clean up neighborhoods.. and it's not a pie in the sky sort of things.. I would call the mission.. Call it mission Neighborhoods.. The city tried to focus on renewing business in certain areas.. it's an OK focus.. BUT overall they need to get to the root of the problem.. start neighborhood by neighborhood.. We can not tackle the whole city at once or it will fail.. We can't really, honestly ask the neighborhoods to step up until they can root out the kingpins who control that neighborhood to get out of the issues of fear. Call it mafia because in some ways these crack houses are.. Until an outside party steps up.. to eliminate the problem.. They will never step up to call out these criminals in fear of death or harm to there family.. Honestly I wish Detroit would have put forth a proposal to house the iraqi refugies in a major detroit neighborhood that needed it.. From my own experience.. these people.. the iraqi's are VERY family and community oriented.. I mean seriously.. if you want a neighborhood to thrive.. bring them IN!•• they are very into community and family.. look at dearborn.. I mean seriously.. We create a literally iraqi settlement within Detroit.. They create an actually community.. trust me on this.. these people.. folks are great.. you will be amazed at what progress you would have a in a single community.. at first people in the area would be like WTF? BUT over time they would realize what has happened in Dearborn.. they have taken there community and make it there own.. They protect it.. they help others.. and want to give back to the community.. this is where I think Detroit can get alot of traction in reversing the trends.. We all talk about white flight.. But we don't even consider allowing the mexican, and arab populations a chance on creating a larger community... Yes all will say well they have mexican town.. I would say NOO we don't.. it's a very small community that just needs support to become a viable, tax paying, great community that others will realize that hey! this is a great neighorhood.. Ok off my soap box.. those are the issues and solutions I think need to occur.. We should welcome immigrants to Detroit.. The african american community were once immigrants.. the Latino And arab communities are the new immigrants.. respect them.. They are VERY good neighbors if you allow them to grow into the community.. Give them a chance to reclaim these neighborhoods.. allow themselves to set a real family atmosphere.. that will fix detroit.. Acceptance.. NO tolerance for crime.. and cleaning up the city street by street.. give them no where to run... Later, Dan | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 692 Registered: 05-2004 |
Like Buddy Holly sang, "That'll be the day". | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 1565 Registered: 04-2006 |
Dude there already is an Iraqi settlement in Detroit. Its called Warrendale. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6438 Registered: 08-2004 |
The parts of Detroit that consist mainly of wooden houses have gone downhill at a much faster rate than the areas with brick homes. Jefferson/Chalmers is a prime example. Many of the homes in the devastated area north of Jefferson were wooden homes, many of the homes in the more intact area south of Jefferson were brick homes. | ||
Lifeinmontage Member Username: Lifeinmontage Post Number: 64 Registered: 10-2007 |
worst part of detroit? the mayor's office: https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/5/126018.html?1205122028 | ||
Mclark Member Username: Mclark Post Number: 1 Registered: 03-2008 |
Lifeinmontage summed it up. I'd have to say the worst areas I've driven through in recent memory were anywhere near Highland Park, around State Fair Ave east of the fairgrounds, just east of City Airport, and Brightmoor. I'm sure there are more desolate places, but I wouldn't really want to stop for long in any of them. I used to go to a lot of parties at the old Easttown Theatre on Harper east of Van Dyke and saw some pretty scary stuff (including a couple instances of people shooting at those of us lined up outside the venue). On the other hand, I've driven through some beautiful neighborhoods and it's always nice to see some of the rehabbing and growth that seem to be happening around Vernor in/near Mexicantown and other spots. It would be nice to see some new housing actual residents could afford, instead of half-assed attempts at gentrification (i.e. Midtown) and lofts most middle-class suburbanites couldn't afford. | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 549 Registered: 04-2006 |
What's the point of building new? This city is full of houses 100 times nicer than anything being built today, and many are just being left to rot. East of Woodward and north of the Boulevard, for example. That neighborhood breaks my heart. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 3636 Registered: 11-2005 |
quote: That has been going on: http://www.modeldmedia.com/fea tures/northcktwn.aspx http://www.bagleyhousing.com/P rojects/Houses.htm http://www.modeldmedia.com/dev elopmentnews/grdc83.aspx http://www.modeldmedia.com/dev elopmentnews/artcenter82.aspx | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 3637 Registered: 11-2005 |
^Those are just from a quick search. I think there are others. | ||
Mclark Member Username: Mclark Post Number: 3 Registered: 03-2008 |
Thanks for the links Pam. Those look a little more reasonable than some of the newer developments I've seen. | ||
Lombaowski Member Username: Lombaowski Post Number: 90 Registered: 11-2004 |
Digitaldom>Interesting post I think that actual can be done but the first thing that needs to be done and something that should have been a concern 35 years ago was holding the good neighborhoods. There are areas on the west side west of Wyoming that are still good places to live and people still do care about their neighborhoods. I think little things like shoveling snow are a good indicator of who cares and who doesn’t. Drive through Detroit after a good snow and see what neighborhoods have the most people outside shoveling their snow. In Brightmoor in January I saw many people out on one street and then no one out on most of the others. In the University district and in Rosedale Park there were a lot of people out. In areas around Highland Park and in Grandale no one was out. It may sound simplistic but you have to help the people who care first and save the neighborhoods that still have 90% of the homes still standing and home owners who cut their grass, report crime, and want to live in a safe community. Move into those neighborhoods first and do surveys, enforce common neighborhood standards, develop strong neighborhood councils, get feedback, and let the citizens who live there do a lot of the leg work. The city/state then provide support with increased law enforcement, community projects, neighborhood improvements with street lights, filling potholes, and responding to reports of crime or even possible crimes. This is why Detroit needs to have city council representing wards because why should any of them really care about Brightmoor? Neighborhoods need a voice and representation which they currently do not have. Each neighborhood also needs people willing to step up and each neighborhood needs to stand up and say this is bs when police don’t respond to possible crimes or let citizens be intimidated by gangsters and thugs. Can this be done everywhere? Sure but start in places like Franklin Park, Old Redford, and at the edges of Rosedale Park, University District, Bagley and elsewhere (sorry I left off Eastside examples but I’m not familiar enough with specific neighborhoods to comment) that already have a good stable community and make those places better. If you do that and gradually move the bad element further away from the core neighborhood people start wanting to move to the core. Then they don’t mid living a few blocks from the core, then ten blocks, and so on. This was done in Chicago on the Southside over the past 20 years and now a ton of old neighborhoods are thriving and property values have gone through the roof in some areas. I think another thing that needs to be done is revitalizing and sprucing up the main arteries. What you see on and just off Grand River and Van Dyke is ridiculous and the decline is evident. When people come in from the suburbs or from out of town they use these streets and what they see scares them. Like someone else said, take a back road and drive two blocks in and a lot of times you will find nice stable neighborhoods. Sometimes you’ll just find ghetto, but that is far from being likelihood. When I took my Dad around the eastside last year and showed him some of the old neighborhoods he was surprised on how many of them looked nice. Anyway what people see driving Gratiot, Van Dyke, Wyoming, and Fenkell is unnerving and I think the people who live on those back streets feel the same way. Hey where do you live? Oh I live near Fenkell and Schafer…ah…I mean I live on Midland and Hubbell. “Oh Midland and Hubbell? How is that?” Honestly if you live on Fenkell and Schafer you might not be too proud of that. To me that lends to a bigger picture issue that directly deals with pride and accountability. As I’ve said many times before, Detroit’s biggest problem at all levels from the old lady on Orangelawn to the city council is the complete lack of accountability. Helping people find pride in their neighborhoods, making changes that simply make an area a little more aesthetically pleasing, and having cops respond to larceny calls goes a lot farther than anyone realizes and could have made all the difference 35 years ago. Since that chance has passed us by, might as well start a new campaign that could have positive long-term effects for the city and its’ residents. | ||
Detroitmaybe Member Username: Detroitmaybe Post Number: 62 Registered: 03-2008 |
I think that about 60% of Detroit is at the point of no return. The article in the Free Press a few months ago, where the guy drove around every City block, was a good example of that. http://media.freep.com/driving detroit/mcgrawsmap.html I have been to neighborhoods, all over the City that are in deplorable and I think combined with the horrible school system, we are in a State of Emergency, and I suppose if anyone really cared there would have been some intervention long time ago!! I am apart of a CDC (Community Development Corp) and it pains me most to see seniors that are in these neighborhoods that have been there half their lives that can no longer continue the fight...and the young drug dealers, and crack heads have moved in and there is nothing they can do but accept it because calling the police is a waste of time. I am tormented by the whole situation..I really don't see any major "positive" changes taking place anytime soon despite the so-called "Neighborhood Plan" the Mayor has. We all know this is just another half ass attempt to make it appear that he is really doing something for the people. I still don't understand how people can say he's done so much when over the past 7 years the City is in third world condition. | ||
Exmotowner Member Username: Exmotowner Post Number: 475 Registered: 06-2005 |
Speaking of "worst parts", I used to work for Commercial Steel treating on Livernois and Tireman. Its a terrible area. Can anyone tell me if that building is still standing? I know its been closed for years. | ||
Lombaowski Member Username: Lombaowski Post Number: 91 Registered: 11-2004 |
Detmaybe>That's a shame to hear and that is yet another underappreciated topic nationwide when we talk about urban decay and inner-city issues: The plight of the elderly. Let me ask you this, are the elderly able to move about in most areas or are they too afraid real or perceived to get out? Is shopping a problem? What about going to the doctor? What do they say about their situations? Any good stories(positive) to pass on? Thanks in advance, this interests me quite a bit. (Message edited by lombaowski on April 08, 2008) | ||
Southwestsaavy Member Username: Southwestsaavy Post Number: 24 Registered: 03-2008 |
I have never read a more bigoted, completely unfounded string of crap in my life. | ||
Brenda Member Username: Brenda Post Number: 82 Registered: 02-2007 |
SWS: Like I told you on another thread...stupidity must be your virtue...........blind to the truth egh? | ||
Brenda Member Username: Brenda Post Number: 83 Registered: 02-2007 |
Newport1128: I also grew up in the Jefferson/Charlmers area...lived at 419 Eastlawn and went to Guyton...used to bike along Windmill Point after crossing the bridge from Detroit to GPP and along lakeshore....I was felt safe and happy there until the riots of 67...What has happen to Detroit has been a travesty. Even with the casinos there, Comerica and Ford Field, unless the leaders are replaced and businesses come into Detroit, the city's future is dire.... | ||
Brenda Member Username: Brenda Post Number: 84 Registered: 02-2007 |
Newport1128: I also grew up in the Jefferson/Charlmers area...lived at 419 Eastlawn and went to Guyton...used to bike along Windmill Point after crossing the bridge from Detroit to GPP and along lakeshore....I always felt safe and happy there until the riots of 67...What has happen to Detroit has been a travesty. Even with the casinos there, Comerica and Ford Field, unless the leaders are replaced and businesses come into Detroit, the city's future is dire.... | ||
Ggores Member Username: Ggores Post Number: 41 Registered: 10-2007 |
detroit is the funnest playground in they world. (wahhhhh... "funnest" is not a real word, par don me) | ||
Brenda Member Username: Brenda Post Number: 85 Registered: 02-2007 |
Ggores....your humor is warped....Detroit was a beautiful city with a myriad of people, money and power...now, it is the laughing post of America as the jobs and people leave.............not so "funnest" | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 75 Registered: 03-2008 |
That is a very interesting map Detroitmaybe. I do however think it is a bit off. I think that more of those brown areas should actually be green. On the bright side, all that blue surrounding downtown gives hope to the little pockets inside, or adjacent to those areas. But I think the blue is also overstated. I know I'm normally positive, but realistically there are still at least two dozen abandon buildings downtown, and many more vacant lots that aren't even being used for parking. I'm interested to see where Highland Park and Hamtramick would rate. | ||
Isiostar Member Username: Isiostar Post Number: 4 Registered: 03-2008 |
Detroit the city everybody ,loves to hate.BUT they also wonder leave or stay or maybe even come back?••• (Message edited by isiostar on April 09, 2008) |
