 
Runningman
Member
Username: Runningman
Post Number: 14
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 7:39 pm: |    |
Ravine - dude - easy! |
Django
Member
Username: Django
Post Number: 160
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 9:54 pm: | |
Livernoisyard
Interesting theory. but would that be a bad thing to allow addicts help through a health plan. If a person is doing something to himself habitually thats obviously causing harm, its a no brainer as far as I see. |
Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine
Post Number: 2230
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 10:16 pm: | |
Sean's long post, which was not so burdensome as Sean seemed to worry it would be, stands as a Great Moment In Sharing here on DetroitYes. I appreciate his candor, and I highly respect his honesty.
It seems that some of you inferred, from my post, a feeling of hostility toward the homeless. I have no hostility toward the homeless. None at all. Some of you who have read lots of my posts, over the past couple of years, probably figured as much, but I regret the fact that some folks may have mis-interpreted my intent.
The objects of my unapologetic scorn and, yes, hostility are not the homeless, but the streetcrawlers out there who consciously, deliberately spend all of their time "working the crowd," with cheesy scams and bullshit sob stories, in an effort to get money-for-nothing. It is important to bear in mind the fact that places like the Salvation Army are there, and ready, to serve the homeless community as much as they can, but they will not put you up for the night if you show up reeling drunk and smelling like urine. There is a big difference between truly lost people, who have been totally abandoned by the world, and bullshitters who have no interest in improving their situation and want some of the money you got off your ass and worked for so they can scuffle off and tie one on with their similarly exploitative cohorts.
As so many of you have stated, so many times, the best way to help the homeless is to give to the programs & institutions which serve them. That way, you don't have to try to deduce who is a bullshitter and who is not. (Your gift is also tax-deductible, if that floats your boat.)
However, if forking over a hand-out, to an inveterate drunk whose game plan for life is getting as blasted as possible as often as possible, makes you feel good about yourself, like Saint Jude of Washington Boulevard, or something, far be it from me to crunch up your haloed party hat. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5913
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 10:32 pm: | |
Alcohol and drug treatment programs are very expensive, and many suggest that they're ineffectual scams and boondoggles, to boot. They increase health costs tremendously, according to many doctors and insurance companies. I've known personally some "addicts" who have been through "treatments" to the tune of close to $100,000 or more per person--and they continue to do alcohol and cocaine even more afterwards.
One I have known even asked for a ride home from the bus station after spending two months at some VA drug rehab facility in Wisconsin. However, he didn't quite make it home until after he spent the entire day and night at several taverns that sold booze and drugs...
Everybody who knows the games and scams knows hundreds of such instances. But, many of them derive their livelihoods from these scams. |
Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit
Post Number: 133
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 12:53 pm: | |
Thanks to Detroitmaybe and others who posted comments and stories. I'm really glad others shared to.
A lot of my posts are to long though. I guess it might be me being more annoyed by myself than anything (Yes, I just said I annoy myself). I just know I need to learn how to convey my points in a less lengthy way.
Ravine, I get your point. I do have some views on the whole addiction being a disease issue, and the to lazy to work issue. However, that would probably end up being another long post. So I'll save it for another time.
PS: Me and my better half are about to head out to the USBC event. If anyone else is going to be there and wants to meet up, post in the connect section. |
Monahan568
Member
Username: Monahan568
Post Number: 304
Registered: 04-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 2:45 pm: | |
"...said something shitty that she probably should've been forked for."
hahaha, thats funny
regarding this topic - i've never felt inclined to follow a shady stranger offering a shortcut to anywhere...who does that? |
Django
Member
Username: Django
Post Number: 164
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 7:15 pm: | |
LivernoisY
I agree, the AA and NA treatment rarely do work. I was refering more to methadone, lamm, antibuse and others. Personally, methadone has saved my ass. Unfortunately theres no treatment like that for cocaine. Sorry bout the hijack SofD |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5927
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 7:35 pm: | |
Methadone "treatments" don't cost $10,000 to $40,000 a pop as do the mainstream drug-treatment programs (which do not work), and many "addicts" get reassigned time and again for more of those "treatments" by the courts, etc. Total waste of money. |
Django
Member
Username: Django
Post Number: 167
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 8:01 pm: | |
das wat Ima sayin |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5929
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 8:57 pm: | |
But SOD believes otherwise. |
Psychgrad
Member
Username: Psychgrad
Post Number: 16
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 11:47 pm: | |
If you look at the stats, many (over half I have heard consistently) of the homeless have some form of mental illness. When the US gov closed long term mental health hospitals under the belief the new antipsychotic drugs of the time would cure everything, the rates of homelessness in our cities went waaaaay up. Its not that surprising either that we see high rates of substance abuse in this population: self-medicate to try and alleviate the symptoms. |
Barnesfoto
Member
Username: Barnesfoto
Post Number: 4994
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 2:17 am: | |
"Alcohol and drug treatment programs are very expensive"
...But still cheaper than incarcerating people for addiction... |
Django
Member
Username: Django
Post Number: 168
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 3:57 am: | |
Barnesfoto, EXCELLENT point. $35,000 to "store" humans is pretty expensive to send some kid to jail for a nonviolent drug crime only to come out eventually as a better, and learned criminal. Ive always said that county and federal, hell even city jail is just a college for criminals. I love this country, Im embarrased also, we have more ppl locked up than any other. Prison has become big business. Non violent drug offenses are the main reason as far as I can tell. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5934
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 4:04 am: | |
Some of Barney's fave countries do far worse than incarceration to drug abusers. He had better stay clear of them.
BOTOH, maybe he could push the envelope while there and directly report about his own treatment. |
Django
Member
Username: Django
Post Number: 170
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 21, 2008 - 4:23 am: | |
Im not familiar with Barns favorite countries. I know some of my favorite countries have terrible laws, their third world countries, theyve followed the lead on drug crimes by the US standard. Hell some have one upped us. Malaysia executes. I almost did 12 years in Thailand for very very little, luckily (for me) the cops are corrupt. I still love the country though, just not their politics. |
Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit
Post Number: 135
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 1:34 pm: | |
Yeah, I know it made no sense to follow him. At the beginning it was simply walking the same route, and I just didn't say much. Obviously, when he started into the park, we split up. |
Jimaz
Member
Username: Jimaz
Post Number: 5168
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 1:53 pm: | |
quote:Non violent drug offenses are the main reason as far as I can tell. That and the three-strikes-you're-out intolerance that hamstrings judges, preventing them from exercising their discretion using their knowledge of each case.
It's incongruous that the most incarcerated country in the world regards itself as free.
This situation will be changing soon though. Several states are exploring early releases. |
Detroitbill
Member
Username: Detroitbill
Post Number: 622
Registered: 09-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 2:02 pm: | |
Ravine, try to express yourself without so many obscenities?? Its really offensive when someone new looks at these posts.. One just asked me what kind of people are on this forum anyway ??Do they speak to each other like this everyday in person??
Told her I hope not. Nobody will listen to comments said like that. You will never get your message across and your comments are as valuable as anyone on here. . |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6691
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 2:22 pm: | |
LOL... LY when you mentioned that you picked up an acquaintance from the bus station just out of rehab...
You pick the guy up, and he asks you how thing are going around town (big mistake)... and you proceed to tell him (with your usual negative spin).... Detroit is a shithole... crime is rampant... shootings are taking place every day... the city and state government are full of crooks... mass transit is a dream that will never happen... wind power is for dreamers not realists... all the jobs are going to China and India because they're more educated than we are... the DPS schools are a mess and will never get better... and the Book-Cadillac will go bankrupt before it ever opens... rehab is a sham, and folks who go there are just milking the system...
Then you ask him where he wants to be dropped off... and you're surprised by his reply... a bar!
Priceless 
(Message edited by Gistok on April 22, 2008) |
Rax
Member
Username: Rax
Post Number: 231
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 2:44 pm: | |
Guess you had to see it. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6693
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 3:17 pm: | |
There, I changed it so that anyone with 50 posts and half a brain will understand it... |
Cambrian
Member
Username: Cambrian
Post Number: 1852
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 3:41 pm: | |
Yup I got it! Priceless! |
Rax
Member
Username: Rax
Post Number: 232
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 4:09 pm: | |
LOL! |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5960
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 4:37 pm: | |
Actually, being in Madison, I'm sure that he never could have experienced the typical despair that Detroiters have to deal with. His main problem was that there were way too many taverns between the bus station and his home two miles away. [Guess the Gerhards never got out much and checked out the number of bars in Wisconsin...]
And Madison typically has the lowest unemployment stats in the entire US the past three decades. If my friend were in Detroit or its burbs instead and had to go past all that abandonment and poverty (and those are Metro Detroit's major selling points...), I'd probably bolt too and go drinking with him. |
Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit
Post Number: 136
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 9:40 pm: | |
LY, what do I "believe" otherwise? I must have missed something?
I guess I believe in a lot of things.
Of course, I also believed the Tigers were going to make it to the finals this year. Hmm, okay your right, beliefs don't always mean a dang thing. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5964
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 9:54 pm: | |
quote:Hmm, okay your right, beliefs don't always mean a dang thing. Hmm... You might say your right, but I wouldn't... |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6696
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 10:30 pm: | |
Sorry LY, you made it too easy. I bet there are a lot of Gerhards in Wisconsin. And a few Hannelores and some Hildegards and a Franzl or two... |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5965
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 10:52 pm: | |
quote:Sorry LY, you made it too easy. I bet there are a lot of Gerhards in Wisconsin. And a few Hannelores and some Hildegards and a Franzl or two... Huh? Still speaking in tongues? We'll get you exorcised of those awful LEGO demons.
You'll thank us. |
Django
Member
Username: Django
Post Number: 174
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 11:25 pm: | |
Jimaz, Your comment on the 3 strikes laws
Thank you and amen |
Lukabottle
Member
Username: Lukabottle
Post Number: 155
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 3:04 am: | |
Warriorfan:
How do you get a job if you do not have a State ID or an address. How do you get a State ID or Social Security Card if you don't have money. It is not as simple as you make it sound. How do you work at McDonald's if you can't wash your clothes.
When I lived in Detroit, I rode the buses and met many people who would bus for over an hour just to work at a fast food restaurant in the suburbs. When I was a teenager and worked at Olga's Kitchen at Macomb Mall, I watched people get fired all the time for being late too many times because of the buses running late. Yeah, fast food restaurants are hiring in the suburbs but you have to be able to have the reliable transportation to get out there. |
Cambrian
Member
Username: Cambrian
Post Number: 1853
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 12:11 pm: | |
" I watched people get fired all the time for being late too many times because of the buses running late"
I lost my fist job out of high school for being late too many times thanks to the busses. Pine Lumber on 8 mile. I laughed my ass off when they went out of business a year later. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6700
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 2:20 pm: | |
Yeah whatever LY... (musta caught him on a manic depressive day). |
Motorcitydave
Member
Username: Motorcitydave
Post Number: 129
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 2:43 pm: | |
I live downtown, and to tell you the truth, they don't bug me too often, unless theres's a Tigers game or something going on.
If they do, as soon as they start to walk up to me and getting ready to ask, I say, "no thanks man, I'm all set" and give a quick wave... seems to confuse them that I am saying "I'M all set" as if they are going to offer me something...lol, and they usually give a polite reply (ok, god bless, or have a blessed day sir, etc.) and they keep moving on. |
Cambrian
Member
Username: Cambrian
Post Number: 1856
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 2:47 pm: | |
I regularly give them leftover food if I have any. They usually respond with disappointment "Don't you have money?" But they do take the food and eat it though. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5977
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 2:53 pm: | |
None of those beggars at CP resemble concentration-camp survivors. Food isn't any solution for them. |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 1117
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 5:13 pm: | |
quote:I lost my fist job ...
A Fist Job, Cambrian? In a lumber yard?
Wearing a sailor uniform, or lumberjack flannel? |
Swiburn
Member
Username: Swiburn
Post Number: 244
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 9:31 am: | |
All I ask is that the guests at the Book Cadillac aren't accosted by the homeless. The lobby,also, will have to have a lot of security and the elevators will no doubt have key access only.
We don't need stories like "Guest robbed in parking lot of Book Cadillac." San Francisco or New York could get away with that publicity , but not Detroit. |
Raggedclaws
Member
Username: Raggedclaws
Post Number: 178
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 10:12 am: | |
I'm curious, Gnome. How old are you ? |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 1125
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 10:17 am: | |
I've scuttled across the silent seas for 60 yrs, why? |
Django
Member
Username: Django
Post Number: 180
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 2:41 pm: | |
ooh ooh ooh, wheres that from gnome? silent seas? |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 1126
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 3:20 pm: | |
I feel if I told you it would rob RaggedClaws of his secret identity. I like to poke fun at RC for his use of the imagery.
But, it's from a poem that is easily googlable. |
Mcp001
Member
Username: Mcp001
Post Number: 3383
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 5:25 pm: | |
quote:Tell the guy to fuck off. Why even explain that you're using a debit card, etc. Just keep walking.
This is still the best advice.
I'd recommend obtaining a CCW, but there are some ridiculous provisions that prohibit you from carrying it in certain areas. |
Bragaboutme
Member
Username: Bragaboutme
Post Number: 203
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, April 24, 2008 - 5:36 pm: | |
Which is worse getting robbed, or Identity theft? |
New threads cannot be started on this page. The threads above are previous posts made to this thread.