 
Shark
Member
Username: Shark
Post Number: 357
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 4:27 pm: |    |
I guess that whole "bums selling newspapers" idea never took off... |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 12495
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 4:34 pm: | |
'nerd,
That would be the first time anyone got attacked by Tanya then...unless your friend taunted her or said something shitty that she probably should've been forked for.
Tanya is one of the sweetest angels of the street until you cross her...and she's got a great memory for those who've crossed her in the past.
Good for Tanya!
Great idea Lilpup.
As for the reason for this thread, indeed, Sean's gut instinct was likely correct. They were probably being led into a trap where other bad folks would join in the melee and split the profits.
Capitol Park has more than their share of shady individuals...although as long as you're paying attention, they are pretty obvious. |
Revolutionary
Member
Username: Revolutionary
Post Number: 149
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 4:44 pm: | |
If you ask them for cigarettes they'll leave you alone. It works for me.
Just as they're about to speak I ask them "you got a square man?". If they hesitate I tell them a long butt works too.
They usually leave me alone.
Don't carry heat unless you're willing to shoot someone. (Most aren't.) I suggesting carrying Fox brand pepper spray, available at Metropolitan Uniform near the police station. (It's legal and extremely strong). |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 2180
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 4:54 pm: | |
Gannon: Yeah, Tonya has been nothing but nice to me. I found it hard to believe the wanted to give my co-worker a good forking.  |
Living_in_the_d
Member
Username: Living_in_the_d
Post Number: 169
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 4:54 pm: | |
Yeah, Rosa Parks Transit Center should brighten up the area. And give it a Whole new feel, 24 hrs a day. |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 2181
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 4:56 pm: | |
Here's my trick. When people start coming up to me, I pull out of my pocket the dirtiest handkerchief I own. It's frayed and browny from being so old. Just when people are about to ask me for something, I take out that handkerchief and wipe my forehead like I've been walking for hours. Strangely, this always works! |
Andylinn
Member
Username: Andylinn
Post Number: 812
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 4:58 pm: | |
Try looking sad and down... Look the homeless person in the eye and politely say "I'm sorry sorry, I don't carry cash" or "I'm sorry, not today"...
Be polite but firm... |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 2182
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 5:01 pm: | |
Andy: Yes, that works! I think my handkerchief trick is a variation on the sad-sack approach to dodging "the bite."
Interestingly, that dodge doesn't always work on Tonya. She'll even yell after you to cheer up! |
Downriviera
Member
Username: Downriviera
Post Number: 280
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 5:06 pm: | |
Whatever became of Greektown Stella? |
Otter
Member
Username: Otter
Post Number: 98
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 5:47 pm: | |
When I was getting obvioudly hustled by someone for money, I used to say something that had "sorry" in it, but I quit doing this because I was not, in fact, really sorry about not giving them money. So now, most of the time I simply say "no" or, perhaps, "no, not today" (the "not tomorrow either" part isremains unspoken but suggested) Sometimes I say "no, sir" though I'm not sure how I picked this up, as it wasn't conscious. |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 2183
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 6:03 pm: | |
I already posted about it months ago, but I was thrown off when homeless would ask me if they could ask a question. Invariably, though, the question they'd ask would be, "Can you give me a dollar?"
Fourth Street Billy figured out the perfect dodge for that bite: He'd tell them, "I'll answer any question for a dollar." |
Django
Member
Username: Django
Post Number: 149
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 7:41 pm: | |
Great idea, everyone go out and buy a gun, well all be much better off then, then you add the fuck off to it, now were cookin with gas.
Im with Blondy and Lowell
(Message edited by django on April 18, 2008) |
Terryh
Member
Username: Terryh
Post Number: 726
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 8:09 pm: | |
A panhandler that recognized me from Royal Oak bought me dinner at Lafayette Coney island. |
Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit
Post Number: 122
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 8:21 pm: | |
Yeah, but they always pay with a ton of small change. |
Wood
Member
Username: Wood
Post Number: 37
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Friday, April 18, 2008 - 8:42 pm: | |
tanya was out yesterday, sweeping up her stoop. |
Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine
Post Number: 2229
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 12:34 am: | |
All of you bleeding-hearts can do what you want. Me, I work for a fuckin' living. I make a decent wage, but I have three people depending on me. No street motherfucker who I don't even know is going to get a god-damned dime from me. I could afford to give it to them, but I'm not going to. I would feel like I was disrespectful of my family, who probably needs more than I can give them, for me to start handing out cash to these sorry-asses who work the streets like carnival scam-artists. If it makes some of you feel better about yourselves, by all means go ahead and pump out a few quarts of the Milk of Human Kindness and shower these fuckin' parasites with it. "Extra fin," my ass. It must be nice to have the luxury of designating some of your money as "extra."
Some of you just live to get on this forum and impress each other with what Real Detroiters In Touch With The Lively Urban Community you are. I couldn't care less about where the fuck Stella and Tanya are, and don't tell me any stories about how adorably inscrutable your goddamn cats are, either. |
Alley
Member
Username: Alley
Post Number: 12
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 1:10 am: | |
I'm totally for helping out at homeless shelters but, to a certain extent, I'm with Ravine on this one. When I'm trying to handle my business I don't want to be bothered by anyone trying to get anything from me. I also have a family to take care of, and why would I hand money over to someone I don't know when I've probably just told my children they can't have something they want?? There are plenty of other ways to contribute to the good of mankind. I don't have the desire to decipher which streetperson is 'safe' and which is going to try and roll me over, either--I'd rather be left alone. |
Docmo
Member
Username: Docmo
Post Number: 340
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 5:54 am: | |
Just another street concierge. There are couple of "concierges" working the unsuspecting suburbanites who frequent the Park Ave bars. They'll aggressively offer directions or escort you to the next club---with the expectation of large tip. |
Sumas
Member
Username: Sumas
Post Number: 107
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 6:20 am: | |
Street people don't bother me. If I have a bit extra I share. If not, I say sorry. There is no reason to abuse people down on their luck. They aren't robbing you, they are just are just trying to survive. Sometimes I am amazed at their ingenuity and even their work ethic. |
Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit
Post Number: 127
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 7:42 am: | |
:::LONG POST:::
Ravine and alley,
Before I start this post, I want to point out I might not have the same point of view as you. Mostly because I don't have kids yet.
That's all so easy to say if you haven't been there. I'm sure we've all had hard times. I've been homeless before. It's the hardest thing you could ever go through. Luckily, I had people around me to pick me up when I fell. Many of the homeless often don't have any people to turn to.
I was two feet away from the door in Detroit. I had several failed business attempts in my early days in Detroit (of course I blamed the city instead of myself). Then, I kept getting laid off. EVERY place, except for one, closed in six months or less of me starting there. It doesn't take long until you run out of references, and employers begin to ask you why you can't hold a steady job. They don't seem to believe that anyone could be laid off that much in such a short amount of time. Then came the nail in the coffin. There was a fire at my apartment building. I suddenly had no place to live, and had no money for another down payment (try getting your deposit back when the building is boarded up). I ended up utilizing extended stay hotels. Unfortunately, that was no longer an option once the Super Bowl came closer. All the homeless were forced into either abandon buildings, or one of the overcrowded and somewhat dangerous homeless shelters that the city tried to tell us was a luxury center. I worked hard to help promote those big events. What did I get for it? I felt like the city only seems to care about these events. I ended up back in my Mom's basement in the suburbs. That didn't last long though, she was on the verge of loosing her house. She started trying to insist on uping my rent, which ended up being my entire pay check. There was no room for saving for any dream I could think of. The only dream I could have was to survive another year. It was almost like a scene straight out of 8 Mile. The big difference was that she never won at bingo, and I couldn't find any chance to get out. It wasn't long until one would start to wounder if anything was ever going to change.
Of course, the chance I had was always there from day one. It was plain and simple. It was playing smart, being willing to work hard, and being patient. I believe I was extremely lucky to make it to that day I saw through the mist. Many people never make it that far. It is very clear to me that I could have easily fallen into getting sick, or selling drugs, or worse. I'm still not out of the woods (no health insurance), but I at least see the door. And am trying very hard to get through it. When I do get through it, I'll know half of it was luck. Many aren't that lucky, and that is why I (and I'm guessing others here do too) take it upon myself to try to help these people who are less fortunate. They may never see it, but they can't say they didn't get a chance. Even that isn't always enough. It's so hard to get through the door, even with help. And yes, some see the journey ahead and are just to lazy to start it.
I would have never came back from that horrible place in my life if it wasn't for all the help and motivation people gave me in this city. It is why I am so defensive when people badmouth the people living in this great city. Why be nice to the homeless? Because your friends in low places are just as important as your friends in high places. Several homeless people were always helping me when I needed it. They helped me navigate some amazing cheap ways of doing things, and were always looking out for me.
As to DetroitYES posters being attention seekers; I don't think that is right. I can't speak for everyone, but it is so much more than that. I had been lurking on these boards since they began. I remember when Blondy was just inquiring about ordinances about dog kennels. I remember when everyone insisted the people at Kales were wasting their time and money. I remember when Miss Pennie saved up and opened 2500 Club. I remember the couple at the candy and perfume stores working hard to open within a month (not an easy task in this city). And of course, I remember hearing about all the forum members who got together and took on one of Detroit's many vacant buildings. I've been here for years, reading the same topics being cycled over and over. Every time one comes up again, I think about it a little more. Then I write down my notes (I do this with everything, even keeping a small pen and pad when I visit random businesses. Inspiration can be that random). Some of my longer posts on business and city issues/problems are results of years of taking notes and studying them.
These people are to me what a successful actor/actress is to someone who is just starting to work their way through film school. I will proudly say that I try to impress people on this forum. These are some of the people trying to get things done in our city and state. Of course I want to impress them if possible. I want to be a part of that. I have such a extremely long and treacherous climb before I can even prove I'm worth talking to. I want to prove that I have something to contribute to their projects and bottom lines, not to mention their city.
That was one main reason I began posting recently. The other reason I decided to begin posting was because I am getting close to putting some of my plans and ideas in action (as well as share others). I want everyone to know what I'm doing and who I am. It's not because I'm some narcissistic donkey. It's because I want it documented, and if and when I succeed, that will hopefully be a sort of inspirational road map (or maybe a map of roads to avoid). You can call it some sort of strange karma, but I believe by putting yourself out there and constantly talking about your ideas, you're more likely to get something back.
The last major reason I post is to meet people. I want to make new creative and interesting friends here. Who cares if they talk about how they are "real Detroiters who are in touch with the urban community"? Have you ever been to a cocktail party in any big city? That is what just about everyone does. Even the people hanging outside the liquor stores in Midtown one up each other in some form. It's all a game that some of us find fun. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it.
At least those people aren't talking about how bad urban living in Detroit is, like so many others in the area do.
You definitely don't know me well enough to judge me. Even if you did, you still have no right to do it. I also doubt you know enough of these other people to judge them. I'm a little tired of how some of the cynics around town like to keep telling the blind city lovers how much time they're wasting (constructive criticism is completely different). I would guess we are all perfectly aware that we might be wrong. If a meteor came and took out Detroit, we would all look pretty stupid. We definitely would have been wrong by encouraging people to move here. The thing is we choose to not mention that stuff. The thinking here (by me anyway), is that that Karma stuff mentioned above applies. I really liked someones comment from awhile ago. The jist was that whatever you talk about and put your mind to is what is going to happen. Your surroundings reflect your attitude (smile, and the bank teller smiles back, frown and the bank teller is jerk). Basically, your mind and/or actions makes it real.
Sorry about the long post. If your still here, I'm surprised. I didn't expect to many people to read through this one. It's probably a wasted post anyway. I'm sure half the people on here are thinking how full of it I am. I tried to make some good points. Anyway, I'll try to keep my posts a little shorter in the future.
In a few more decades when people talk about what the turning point for Detroit was, I would hope this site is at least mentioned. This site really does give everyone a place to start and be heard. The only other ruins tour was on a Natzi site, and the other Detroit boards just didn't attract people like this one does. DetroitYES.com could really be Detroit's biggest people/business magnet.
Edit: Grammer
(Message edited by sean_of_detroit on April 19, 2008) |
Cambrian
Member
Username: Cambrian
Post Number: 1849
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 9:17 am: | |
" They don't seem to believe that anyone could be laid off that much in such a short amount of time."
I had a recruiter pose a question like that to me once. My response: "Well Mr Smith, I guess you haven't read a newspaper recently. Let me fill you in, the nation's unemployment is 4% while Michigan's is 7.5%. Why would it Surprise you so when you encounter some one who has been laid off given these statistics?" |
Sstashmoo
Member
Username: Sstashmoo
Post Number: 1286
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 10:55 am: | |
Quote:""A panhandler that recognized me from Royal Oak bought me dinner at Lafayette Coney island.""
Too funny. Entertaining the customer base? Did he have any free pens or fridge magnets? |
Django
Member
Username: Django
Post Number: 153
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 12:18 pm: | |
S of D
I made it through to the end. We all have the right to vent a few pages every once in a while. I thought you were right on. and as far as the attention seekers remark or whatever that post was, hes just blind as to where some ppls lives can go. Ive been homeless also, my own fault. wouldnt wish that on anyone. and My cat is so goddamn cute, hes really an amazing feline. we play fetch. I swear he can read my mind. But enough about King Charlomaine. Dont let the ding dongs get you down S of G. |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 12498
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 1:30 pm: | |
All cats can read minds.
That's why they usually look so bored. |
Detroitmaybe
Member
Username: Detroitmaybe
Post Number: 80
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 3:07 pm: | |
Quick Story...
I had an uncle that moved to Jerusalem in the mid-60's with a religious sect called the "Black Jews". He lived with this group there for many years, until I believe that he committed adultery and was persecuted by the group and forced to live in solitary confinement for many years where he was tortured, beaten, and severely abused (we're not sure how many..but at least 5) He was imprisoned for this entire period and was at some point rescued by the local officials and sent back to the US. By this time he had become schizophrenic and mentally unstable and knew nothing more than his name and that he was a US Citizen. He did not know how to contact any of us..his family, had no money, and was sent back to Detroit where the government released him on the streets of Detroit. My family had no contact with him for over 20 years as he had disassociated himself with them when he joined the group. He was forced to wander the streets..and lived as one of the many nameless, faceless homeless that roamed the streets of Detroit. My uncle was a graduate of WSU and Cass Tech, and US veteran and was a well educated man.
While living on the streets, one day he went to a local homeless shelter and met a woman named, Mother Waddles (those of u that claim to be real Detroiters should already know.) Mother Waddles was well known at the time, and was one of the most amazing spirits in Detroit.
She became my uncles savior, and took him into a home that she had for homeless men. While not only providing food and shelter, she became committed to helping him reconnect with his family. She decided to write an article article in the Michigan Chronicle with a pic of my uncle and headline that read... "Does anyone know this man"? My aunt happened to see the article one day while walking past the newsstand, and immediately called Ms. Waddles, and long story short...we were eventually all reunited!! At the time I was very young and had never met my uncle but, I knew even as a child that he was severally mentally challenged and should have never been released from the Veterans Hospital in his condition.
I believe that the homeless situation in this area has gotten really crucial and we are in need of a serious intervention!! As more people are laid off, homeless shelters close, and state-funded psychiatric hospitals are placing many mentally ill patients back on the streets with no place to go.
As I mentioned in previous posts....I pride myself on being engaged in the community, and have often visited many of the local areas that homeless congregate, such as Cass Park and Capitol Park to just give food, and to talk to them about their lives and what they are going through. I find that many are mentally impaired and are in desperate need of psychiatric help but, because they cannot afford the medication needed for their illness turn to drugs as a way to cope. Many others are homeless based on circumstance, maybe were laid off from their jobs and had no one to turn to or lacked the capacity to look for assistance, and lack of assistance that is available as so many of the shelters are closing and full. Yes, there are some out that are scam artists and criminals, and live of by the survival of the fittest mentality, that most of us...not just homeless live by!!
Ravine, Your narrow-minded view of helping others is very sad, as someday you will realize that indeed that the Law of Reciprocity is very real..U get what u give!!Many people have fallen on hard times, as u could some day! Remember that God is not done with you yet, and you never know what tomorrow may bring!!
So what..u take care of your family...great!! But, it is important to realize that most are a paycheck away from being homeless..and we are all in this together. I'm not saying go out and give money to all homeless people that you encounter in the City, because you would definitely end up broke and on the streets yourself! But, have some empathy..and use discretion. Maybe, give to a local homeless organization...there are plenty of orgs in the City that do provide assistance and are cash strapped (in fact I hear NSO is closing)
@ Sean
Always trust your instincts!! But, next time..I would recommend not engaging potential criminals and if you really feel that you were in danger, instead of continuing to hang out and dismissing an incident as this...call the police and at least give a description of the individual so that they can have some record. It does no good if you warned other potential victims, and they still may have been victims to the crime. So many of us turn a blind eye to what is going on out here and are reluctant to become involved and active in the community, and them come on the board to complain about it!! (tisk-tisk)
As I said...we are all in this together, and things will never begin to change unless we change them ourselves!! |
Django
Member
Username: Django
Post Number: 158
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 3:25 pm: | |
Hope I get the chance to buy you a beer Detroitmaybe.
Oh yeah, Gannon, e mail me. |
Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell
Post Number: 4765
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 4:51 pm: | |
Very good posts Sean and Dmaybe.
I came very close to the edge a couple of times in my life, close enough to feel for and respect those who fell down. Yes, I could have fallen back on family, but who wants to do that?
It is disgraceful that this state and country allows any homelessness to exist amid all the wealth we have. Food, shelter and health care should be the birthright of every American. Homelesness is not just the mentally ill and unfortunate; increasingly we have the phenomenon of the working homeless.
The burden of the region's homeless falls almost entirely upon the City of Detroit. Rancor and scorn are heaped on both the homeless and the city are depressing, too often from those who who forget they have been blessed -- blessed with everything but a heart. |
Warriorfan
Member
Username: Warriorfan
Post Number: 894
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 5:50 pm: | |
quote:Sometimes I am amazed at their ingenuity and even their work ethic.
If they had work ethic, they'd have REAL jobs. With the exception of the mentally ill or disabled homeless, there is really no reason why any healthy young person (like the guy in the OP's story) should be living on the street. And don't give me any crap about the economy and the unemployment rate, McDonalds and Burger King are always hiring and beggars can't be choosers. Even selling newspapers would be preferable to panhandling. I wouldn't consider intimidating some out-of-town naive white people into giving you money for performing some guide "service" that they didn't even ask for to be "work ethic."
With the exception of the mentally ill, most of the people in the streets are there by choice. It's not like they don't have options, because there are DOZENS AND DOZENS of private and public charities/organizations in Detroit that help the homeless. But then again, if you want to stay at the shelters and get help finding housing and a job, you have to obey a few rules. Like no drugs, no drinking, no stealing, no fights, no causing trouble, etc. For whatever reason, many homeless simply refuse to abide by these rules and thus choose the streets.
All you "good samaritans" who give them money are only subsidizing their self-destruction. You aren't helping them, you're hurting them. By funding their lives on the streets, you are delaying them from getting the help they need. |
Django
Member
Username: Django
Post Number: 159
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 6:18 pm: | |
Fact is that drugs are cause for most of the homeless. Warriorfan, if you think being addicted to drugs is a choice your just plain uninformed. Sure, they do choose to pick up that pipe or needle everyday. Its when they try NOT to pick up the pipe or needle on any given day, thats when the addiction becomes real. Is your family free from addiction? you dont have a cousin or uncle whose got an issue with substances? Have you never talked to someone you love who has an addiction. Ask any Doctor, they will tell you that addiction is a disease. I rarely give out change, when I do its because Ive had a good day and Im trying to pay it foward in my own little way. Yeah, that change I gave some dude might wind up in a DDs (dealers)pocket, might have got him a sandwich, might have got him on the bus to go see his mom. I dont think anyone here regularly gives away their money to a junkie, Ill bet most ppl who do just do it for karma, its a small price to pay for the feeling you helped someone out whos asking for help.
Give it a try, hell its just 50 cents, you might be surprised how it feels.
(Message edited by django on April 19, 2008) |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 5910
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 7:11 pm: | |
quote:Ask any Doctor, they will tell you that addiction is a disease. Is addiction really a disease? Many believe that defining an addiction as such is a legal fiction so as to enable so-called disease-ridden addicts entry into health plans. Many doctors believe that too.
Merriam-Webster defines the verb addict as: to devote or surrender (oneself) to something habitually or obsessively <addicted>. |
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