  Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 1238 Registered: 04-2005 |
as of today, information technology managers at chrysler have been cleared to release details of a departmental takeover by outside consulting firms csc (csc.com) and tcs (tcs.com). beginning this month, lower-level managers met individually with teams from the outsourcing companies on a daily basis. complete details regarding ongoing operations were provided to those companies. the outsourcing firms responded this week with specific plans to bring in resources necessary to replace chrysler's current i.t. staff. workers are to begin training their replacements starting next monday (4/28), and elimination of current employees must be completed no later than mid-july. the details above apply to contract ("supplemental") workers. a minimum 10-20% of on-roll chrysler employees will be eliminated. they will not be provided with information regarding their future employment until their teams have been replaced. diversity concerns regarding the new workforce have not been addressed. there are, as of yet, no known replacements of a descent other than indian. several years ago, a major cultural rift was created when mainframe and cobol developers were dismissed at chrysler en masse, and replaced by young and generally-perceived arrogant java and web developers. i.t. workers who saw their associates of 10, 20, 30 years - who grew older together and who shared life's experiences together - were highly resentful of the young punks who scoffed at the kludgy practices of the old-timers. the veteran employees retaliated by trying to stymie and confuse the punks who thought they knew everything. and now, we have a new cultural rift brewing at chrysler. chrysler's i.t. upper management has blindly embraced the trend toward bringing in cheap foreign labor and sending technology jobs overseas. chrysler's overall management has forsaken corporate citizenship, denied jobs to the sons and daughters of hard-working legacy employees, and furthered hardship in many of michigan's proud communities. and, our legislators will have stood by while all this was happening. corporate america needs to create economies overseas in order to continue building the exorbitant wealth of its board members and majority shareholders. once everyone's pockets have been padded, there will be an investigation as to how this happened. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 5190 Registered: 12-2005 |
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Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 382 Registered: 03-2005 |
"the veteran employees retaliated by trying to stymie and confuse the punks who thought they knew everything" I think that might sum up many of the problems with the domestic auto industry. "denied jobs to the sons and daughters of hard-working legacy employees" What world are you living in? What does Chrysler owe the sons and daughters of employees? Absolutely nothing. Nepotism, another problem. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 5988 Registered: 10-2004 |
Mbr: I reacted in the same manner when reading that. Being that it's Chrysler, it's only a matter of (short) time before Cambrian starts spouting his proletariat nonsense against the management there. | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 1239 Registered: 04-2005 |
quote: there's a big difference between nepotism and loyalty. it's the same difference between greed and trust. your statement is like saying you can give everything you have to the blood bank, but we're not going to save your family with it. in fact, we'll give it to somebody who will make us more rich. | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 1240 Registered: 04-2005 |
livernoisyard, proleteriat nonsense? how's corporate america working for you? got a house on the market? i guess your smug and nondescript comment was more inciteful than insightful. in fact, you're already trying to goad someone into a battle without saying anything relevant yourself. thanks for nothing; in fact - thanks for less than nothing. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 5991 Registered: 10-2004 |
What responsibility does Chrysler have to provide employment for anybody, especially for relatives of those already working there? As for loyalty, if you were offered significantly more elsewhere, I'd wager that you would have split. So, I don't blindly swallow your "loyalty" argument, even if you state that you were offered more because there's little to prove that. What's really happening is that the former gravy train in the auto industry is essentially over for everybody. However, somebody is sure to bitch about executive pay... (Message edited by livernoisyard on April 24, 2008) | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5944 Registered: 10-2003 |
Livernoisyard, in which city do you live? | ||
Rid0617 Member Username: Rid0617 Post Number: 73 Registered: 03-2008 |
No job now a days provides anything for loyalty. Those days are over. Now if you have a job your grateful just to get to keep it especially in this economy. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 5992 Registered: 10-2004 |
If an employee can quit at will, why cannot a business terminate at will? Methinks, employees who think that way are being selfish. Not that being selfish is necessarily bad. However if a business is "selfish," then automatically it's bad. Suppose the Tigers could get a better player and, maybe, even get him for less than a player already on the team. If that player doesn't have a "no-cut" provision, he most likely will be out of a job, probably a lot sooner than he wanted. Should the Tigers retain a player until he becomes geriatric? | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 1119 Registered: 08-2007 |
quote: yes quote:no quote:no it doesn't. The blood bank is not a bank were you put in blood and then get it back with interest. quote: TheCarl, you almost make sense then you throw poo in the punchbowl with this legacy drivel. I mean I'm with you 100% with the whole keeping American jobs for Americans thing. Even the rant about the fatcats is cool; then, the legacy log of poo. A huge stinking log right in the punch bowl. And then you know what's worse? huh? You start dancing on that legacy log! Like a fricking lumberjack in hobnail boots, you're out there spinning that thing all around, frothing up the bowl and... ...making the sane world sick. | ||
Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism Post Number: 729 Registered: 06-2005 |
Corporate America and its top management no longer cares for anything other than profit and loss. Those who thinks that going on strike, brotherhood, and all the fuzzy feeling of the company taking care of your children and grandchildren needs a reality check. The truth of the matter is that if the company doesn't make big money - severe cost cutting will occur, usually in the form of lay-offs. If that doesn't get favorable results, sometimes CEOs are fired too. | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 1317 Registered: 11-2007 |
Regarding legacies - I tried getting into Chevrolet after the Navy.(1980). My Dad worked for Chevy Engineering and had earlier found my older brother a job there, after his hitch in the Navy and Vietnam. Then my brother married another employee, and I had a cousin in law working there. I took and passed the skilled trades apprentice test near the top, but a friend of my Dads was the interviewer, and he told me that too many family members and affirmative action at that time, blew my chances of getting in. I’ve done everything on my own since then. My brothers starting position was as a security guard in a shack in the parking lot. Legacy has never been an automatic in for anybody. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1226 Registered: 12-2006 |
Corporate (name your favorite country) has never cared about anything but profit and loss. That's what a corporation is. National governments can force companies to comply with rules forcing them to pretend to care about other things. Ours doesn't do very much of that; some others do. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3037 Registered: 04-2006 |
Wow, I'm actually in agreement with LY... | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 625 Registered: 09-2006 |
Actions like this unfortunately make it very difficult to stand up for companies when you try to convince car buyers to "Buy American".. It seems Chryslers is at the top of list for outsourcing of car parts and now office related staff functions... As one noted recently. "Toyota seems be making more and assembling more here than Chryslers is intending too." The lines are becoming thinner between all of the manufacturers unfortunately. How this all plays out will be interesting at least... | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1858 Registered: 08-2006 |
" i.t. staff. workers are to begin training their replacements starting next monday (4/28), and elimination of current employees must be completed no later than mid-july." I'm just relishing the thought of LY's boss potentially approaching him sometime in the near future with the task of training a replacement to fill LY's job. | ||
Flyingj Member Username: Flyingj Post Number: 166 Registered: 08-2006 |
If you read "Rivethead" http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin /biblio?inkey=62-0446394009-0 & remember all the stories you'd heard growing up how we sent a (put make & model here) off the line without a(insert vital mechanical component here) & the curious phenomena in showrooms of "Monday & Friday cars" you can't wonder about any of this stuff | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 5997 Registered: 10-2004 |
Cambrian still hopes to retain his job for life as his birthright, whereas most others have faced reality eons ago... | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 1859 Registered: 08-2006 |
Sounds good!•• Then the system i.e. the taxpayers can take care of those that the savvy companies thought to displace. How generous of you LY! | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 766 Registered: 11-2003 |
The lines are blurred. My '96 Chevy was made mostly in Canada and Mexico - and that was 12 years ago. A friend's Chrysler is like 15% US. "Buy American" is a misnomer. The reality is that it's "Buy Mostly Made By Union Employers in the US and Canada." That's fine, but be honest. Outside of this region, "Buy American" means about zero to the majority of people. Not that they're against American cars - look at the recent success of the Impala (assembled in Canada) as far as pricing strength - it's that they want what they perceive to be the best vehicle, period. As to outsourcing at Chrysler - GM did the same thing a few years ago, from what I heard. And in closing - as much as it personally hurts, let's look at the big picture. The only place the US carmakers are making money are - foreign markets. So, if we can sell in foreign markets, why can't foreign companies bid on services? It's a global economy now, and you need to adapt or die. Kvetching (unless you're a blogger) doesn't make food appear on a table or a bank account get larger. | ||
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican Post Number: 567 Registered: 02-2007 |
WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA! OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN. | ||
Bongman Member Username: Bongman Post Number: 1572 Registered: 12-2003 |
Gotta love the nepotism line....code for entitlements, which is in my opinion this area's # 1 problem. How could any minority feel the playing field is level with that crap going on is beyond me, and it's deeply rooted in this area. You just think it happens everywhere because it's business as usual here. The same folks doing the bitching about reverse discrimination just hired their nephew, a man they can trust....believe it. | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 3613 Registered: 10-2003 |
Will the Indian replacements be located in Auburn Hills? Will they bring large families who can soak up the oversupply of housing? What does an employer hold over your head in order to get you to train your replacement? | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1230 Registered: 12-2006 |
That "keep buying foreign" thing is such claptrap nowadays. Go tell that to the millions of people who lost their jobs making clothing or consumer electronics or whatever when those jobs went overseas anywhere from the 1950s through the 1970s. The rest of the country doesn't care whether we keep our jobs making cars because we didn't care whether they kept their jobs making toasters and shirts. We went out of our way to save 50c on a shirt made in Asia rather than buy the slightly more expensive one made in North Carolina, and didn't give it a second thought. Now the same thing is happening to us and we have no right to be angry. It reminds me of the Protestant pastor Martin Niemoller lamenting the loss of freedom in Nazi Germany: "First they came for the Communists, and I did not speak up because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak up because I was not a Jew... then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 767 Registered: 11-2003 |
If you want to know what an American-made shirt would be close to costing, look at American Apparel. It's about $15-$20 a T-shirt. You can have a couple packs of shirts for that much from target - and nicer ones for $5. I find it hippocratic when you talk to people who are all "Union this" and "Buy American" that yet they shop at all the same places the rest of us shop. Do you believe in the cause - or only the cause that's convenient to your pocketbook? After all, the quickest way to convince someone of an issue's "rightness" is if you make it directly related to how they get paid. I've seen it a thousand times where people change industries and their position completely changes. And - here is a newsflash to anyone not in business. Business is ALL about WHO you know, not just what you know. Taking it to a personal level - Do you want to find a job after being laid off? You've got a way better chance of getting one from someone you've met or know than off of some job web site (not that you shouldn't do both). Go out to events, meet people. Will be much better time spent than trolling around the 'net. Want to get clients? Build your personal and professional network. Because all things being equal, people hire their friends. All things being unequal, people STILL hire their friends and family. And when there is no connection, the value proposition becomes price. (Message edited by digitalvision on April 24, 2008) | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 741 Registered: 05-2006 |
"WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA! OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN." What is considered "foreign" today? Is a Ford Fusion made in Mexico "foreign?" What about a Honda made in Ohio. Personally, I think buying the Honda (domestic version) has more benefits overall. The hundreds of people working on the line assembling it are paying income tax, medicare tax. social security, etc. What are the Mexicans that assemble the Fusion contributing? | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 12533 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks for that quote Professor. I also stand against the legacy thing...that is so 'old-boy' network that it isn't funny...but I'd like to see it through all the way to the top. People have always felt more comfortable hiring those they know over those they don't...in any and every stage of the process. But when it becomes an expected thing, even with those who are not qualified, willing, and/or able to do the job...then it is SO much a part of the problem. As far as these IT folks staying on to train their replacements, and simply waiting to see where they'll be placed next...IT people are way too smart for that ploy. Most are some of the best critical thinkers I've met...they will find a way to screw this up for the new private and untraceable owners of this corporation run amok. Like most computer 'crime' though, it will remain hidden unless they do it on such a level that it cannot stay out of the news! Cheers to any who fight this fight against unchecked corporate capitalism in any way that is not destructive to human lives! | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 768 Registered: 11-2003 |
What I love to see, Gannon, is when those IT folks striking it out on their own and picking up the pieces making more money than they did before :-) After all, the quickest way to get a raise is bounce between competing companies and run them into a bidding war. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3042 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: He said: quote: So contract workers, who were brought in to cut costs, are training workers of an outside consulting firm to replace them... so that costs can be further cut. |
