  Eastside61 Member Username: Eastside61 Post Number: 1192 Registered: 07-2006 |
Northlawn and Sussex come to mind!••••• I think that Jjaba has rated them as the worst neighborhood area and they were two reasons why he moved east of woodward. Remember he will deny it...BUT it is true!••• | ||
Ggores Member Username: Ggores Post Number: 42 Registered: 10-2007 |
my good humour is warped? somebody dare say to call us "laughing post of america"? why, thank you for inspiration! and to think that a thread on DETROITYES! has a high-browed remark about a street-walkers discussion being "low-brow"? sorry folks, i say no more. worst and funnest cancel each other out, don't they. and, by the by, thank you to all the posters on here who at least make me feel like "not a laughing post". yers truly.. GG. | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 899 Registered: 05-2004 |
I vote for the city-county building because of the "leaders" that conduct their business there. More bone head moves and poor decisions have been made there than any other place in the city. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2602 Registered: 07-2004 |
Paulmcall, make sure you go back aways when you talk about the folks at the City-County Building. The current folks occupying the place are a joke, but there were others walking those halls 50-60 years ago that made some poor decisions that have put Detroit in the position that it is in today. I'm convinced that Detroit needs to shrink its size and because some parts of Detroit can not be saved, some areas of Detroit need to be mothballed. The Conner-Jefferson-Alter-Kerchev al area is one such area. I know that there are plans to redevelop that area with the Fox Creek residential development, but with all due respect to those that now live there, it needs to be mothballed, and then reconfigured for other uses besides residential. Personally, some big-box stores could go in that area, supported by the incomes of Detroiters, living south of Jefferson and those in the Grosse Pointes. Brightmoor is another area that needs to be mothballed. I have often thought of rebuilding Brightmoor with homes that would appeal to the current residents of Rosedale Park who are tired of there old homes and want new homes with modern amenities, but still desire living in the city. Many areas off of Gratiot from downtown all the way to State Fair are in bad shape. There should be a concerted effort made by the city to rebuild these neighborhoods along Gratiot, especially since it is a major artery street. The rebuilding would encompass the first two or three streets off of Gratiot. Neighborhoods beyond those blocks, if not adjacent to another considered major sheet, should be mothballed. Now, in order to do all this, the city is going to have to get funds from the federal government. A Marshall Plan for Detroit is needed to rebuild it. And if anybody ask why Detroit should get this help from the federal government, I would tell them that Detroit should get first dibs because as the Arsenal of Freedom, Detroit helped the federal government win WWII. I think the feds owe us one. Those responsible for rebuilding Detroit need to look at rebuilding Detroit from the central core on out. Not a new idea, but mothballing the outer areas would save millions of dollars on city services such as lighting, garbage pick-up, road repair, and fire and police protection. Believing that the city's population will increase in the future is wishful thinking. It's time to think about not losing anymore population. My suggestions might help. | ||
Umbound Member Username: Umbound Post Number: 94 Registered: 02-2008 |
Maybe not THE worst part but it is up their, The Hole, it is the neighborhood that is Fort and Scheafer. that corner is really bad. | ||
Softailrider Member Username: Softailrider Post Number: 144 Registered: 02-2007 |
I found the worst street in Detroit , Robinwood between John R and Woodward . Absolutely incredible , with the exception of about 5 houses, EVERY one is vacant , some secured , some with boards torn off . Most are just open to trespass. Has to be seen to be believed, words can't describe it | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4598 Registered: 02-2005 |
Royce, your second paragraph is garbage. Utter garbage. "Mothballing" is one thing [I really don't know how you "mothball" a neighborhood other than forcing people out or telling potential developers that they are not allowed to spend money there], but reconfiguring the city even more, for big box stores no less, is stupid. There already are big boxes along Jefferson and Conner, and newer strips malls, and there are vacancies in all of these. Grosse Pointers don't go shopping at Riverbend plaza, so why would they go to some newly contrived mall between Alter and Conner? Who would shop there anyway? Where would the demand be, especially if no one is going to be living remotely nearby anymore? No, the master plan for that area of urban prairie should be the creation of a traditional mixed-use neighborhood, with apartments over retail along the sidestreets, and detached homes and townhouses on the side streets, with development most aggressively incentivized and encouraged starting near Alter, so that the neighborhood can build westward off of Grosse Pointe Park. The residents there can then support the retail establishments on the side streets, or walk to Kercheval in Grosse Pointe Park, or bicycle/drive to the Village in GP City, or to the Jefferson Ave. strip malls. Removing that neighborhood (even if only 10 percent of it remains today) to build malls makes no sense. | ||
Detroitmaybe Member Username: Detroitmaybe Post Number: 67 Registered: 03-2008 |
Just remember in development...residential first, retail second. If big box stores won't move into Midtown or Downtown, areas that currently have somewhat consistent foot traffic and high density...they will most certainly not invest in any of Detroits residential, low density neighborhoods. Private developers will invest based on the perceived need..ie Alter/ Jefferson...but, many of them are hit with the reality that there are other more profitable areas to invest, outside Detroit. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4599 Registered: 02-2005 |
Pretty much, Detroitmaybe. Good points. Any and all Detroit neighborhoods would be much better off by emphasizing the opening of more small businesses, which can only be cultivated by planning for concurrent residential development. There is a place for major chains in the city (because of the price advantages they often offer), but not amid human-scale neighborhoods. They can be on major strips like Gratiot, and especially toward the 8-mile and Telegraph fringes...all easily accessible by transit, ideally. If this is the master plan, then we can get the benefits of having major retailers offering cheaper goods, and creating jobs in the City, without wrecking any more neighborhoods. I'm still really surprised at Royce's suggestion, even though I don't deny that a reformed master plan is called-for. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2603 Registered: 07-2004 |
Mackinaw, my suggestion that big-box stores should fill in the already "wrecked" area bounded by Conner, Jefferson, Alter, and Kercheval is not garbage IMHO. It solves the problem of what to do with all of that vacant land currently there. The master plan to redevlop that area counts on residential and small retail. Well, I disagree with that plan because the only true retail that you'd probably get would be what's been popping up all over Detroit, a strip mall with a cash checking store, a Chinese food store, a dollar store, a beauty supply store, and a tax preparation store. The residential component of the master plan would still focus on low to moderate income housing, which would only appeal to the residents currently living in the area. In my opinion there needs to be a drastic shift in the planning. I mean that it's time to do something totally different from what is planned because in the end I don't see the master plan for that area being successful on a number of points. First of all, as a residential area, the Conner-Jefferson-Alter-Kerchev al area has blocks that are entirely too long. There needs to be two or three cross streets that break up these streets so that there is quicker access to Alter and Conner for both pedestrians and motorists. The master plan that I've seen only adds one cross street. Secondly, to actually believe that people with well-to-do incomes are going to move into new homes in this long depressed neighbor as the master plan suggests is just wishful thinking. Also, who among the well to do would want to live in the same neighborhood with low to moderate income residents. No, all you will get are the low and moderate income residents, perpetuating the same residents who are currently living in the area. A clean slate for that area is what's needed. Now, it's funny to me how in the suburbs a big retail development is developed and soon after residential developments are built around it. How come that can't happen in Detroit? Why can't a big-box retail development work along Alter Road when you have the Grosse Points to the immediate east? Is there any big-box retail in any of the Grosse Pointes? If marketed correctly, Grosse Pointers will come and shop in Detroit. Yeah, I know Grosse Pointers don't shop at the Riverbend strip mall. Why should they? The stores at Riverbend for the most part are the same stores that they have in their own cities. If they can go to the Rite-Aid in their neighborhood, then why go to the Rite-Aid in Riverbend? Now, if they have no Best Buy or Home Depot and Detroit does, then I see them going to the stores, especially if these stores are along Alter and Jefferson. I see these stores and their massive parking lots taking up most of the vacant land now present in that area. I'm OK with that because the area will see some life that it's now seeing now, and that' a win for Detroit. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4600 Registered: 02-2005 |
Your third paragraph makes a good point. Regarding the fact that it would be mostly low and middle income residents living here, I say, what's wrong with that. You seem to think that this would be a disaster, and a continuation of past trends. But the reason the neighborhood looks the way it does now is because people just don't live there...low income, middle income, high income, or otherwise. It's mostly a no-income neighborhood. Most cities have plenty of functional, well-sustained neighborhoods that are low and middle income, and they don't rely on big box stores. You're basically just begging for the suburban model of single use pods to be implemented in that neighborhood. The cross-section would look something like: street, sidewalk, 200 foot deep parking lot, 300' x 300' store, loading docks behind that, a wall or some sort of fence that the merchant will want for "security", and then a new housing development, which, if the neighborhood is completely made into a "blank slate" as per your suggestion, will be none other than a pod of repetitious garages with attached houses behind them on curvilinear streets. Yeah...I'd rather mothball the neighborhood in that case. Look at how well the suburban retail first, housing second approach has worked along parts of Jefferson. The Crosswinds development east of Marquette right behind that strip mall has seen modest success, but does that look like a healthy, functional urban neighborhood? I don't ever see people walking down those streets to go to the stores that are right around the corner. Probably because they'd rather roll out of their 30 foot wide driveway and take a one-minute drive than a 5 minute walk. Who walks up to a store with all those parking spots [answer: bums do]? Cars = laziness = dead neighborhoods. | ||
Grumpyoldlady Member Username: Grumpyoldlady Post Number: 51 Registered: 06-2005 |
Let's face it...now that they have ruined most of the neighborhoods, even THEY don't want to live in them and are moving to the suburbs where they proceed to let their homes go to pot and then move further outward. It will be never ending. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1942 Registered: 09-2007 |
Damn Racistoldlady, who the hell is "THEY"? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4601 Registered: 02-2005 |
Yeah, no joke. If 'they' simply means people who don't give a damn about their property/neighborhood, then by all means, let them move out and be replaced. With 'them' gone, maybe something revolutionary will happen, like maybe conscientious people who care about the city will want to live there. But I'm wondering just what you mean. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 2604 Registered: 07-2004 |
Mackinaw, I will agree that the Crosswind's community along Jefferson (Jefferson Village) is poorly designed. I think the setback for the strip mall is too deep. Something like Harbortown would have been preferable. It's a lot shorter walk for residents to the stores in Harbortown than in Jefferson Village. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4606 Registered: 02-2005 |
True, you could do a lot worse than Harbortown. It is integrated fairly well, and my favorite thing about it is the mix of densities within it. If the stores had been built along the street, with parking bays behind it, it would have been perfect. http://www.kunstler.com/mags_l ocalism.html ^That is a good article. Especially starting in paragraph 7, which stresses the fact that we should prepare for local-based, car-free existences, and quit building on the suburban model. It's a nice way to offer an opposition to big boxes etc. that is not based on aesthetics alone. | ||
Ggores Member Username: Ggores Post Number: 48 Registered: 10-2007 |
fate led me to live at the corner of sante fe and rosecrans in compton for five years. great, i know. but i came to this realization - neighborhoods in los angeles are pure violent. hoods in detroit are just plain crazy. i've seen no disproof of this in 20 years. not sure of the relevance of this, except to compare apples to apples for once. :-) | ||
Gogo Member Username: Gogo Post Number: 1409 Registered: 11-2003 |
Brenda - Detroit was a bustling beautiful city with myriad of people and power until people started leaving. This started way before the riots. It started when the federal government subsidized and encouraged the building of highways and growth outwards from cities. When the drop in population caused problems and discontent, the exodus only accelerated in Detroit. Whereas in other cities, the people of the region tried to resolve these problems. People like you decided to walk away and ignore them and hope someone else would fix them. You have noone to blame for Detroits condition, but the people who have turned their backs on it. New York City, Chicago and many other cities who experienced population decline and the problems associated with a large city built for a population that has shrunk, have all worked together to resolve these problems rather than seeing their city struggle. In Detroit, the people who leave like to sit on the sideline and commentate while doing nothing to actually help. The worst part of Detroit, is the people sitting on the side line doing nothing and expecting someone else to resolve the regions problems. | ||
Isiostar Member Username: Isiostar Post Number: 5 Registered: 03-2008 |
PREACH(Gogo)PREACH | ||
Exmotowner Member Username: Exmotowner Post Number: 480 Registered: 06-2005 |
Gogo What the hell are you talking about. You have no right to blame "the ones that left" for the problems of Detroit. You have no idea what each of us went through and how much we tolerated and tried to stay. I've had a gun in my face 3 times there. I've cleaned up tenants apartments that had their throat slit and WAY to many other problems. Let me ask you one question? How much is too much? How much would endure to stay in the city you love (I love Detroit no less than you do)and I think there are a lot of us EX's that feel the same way. Blaming us for detroit's problems is nuts. If Detroit didnt have these problems, we would still be there! | ||
Gaz Member Username: Gaz Post Number: 86 Registered: 04-2008 |
This is just all incredibly sad. I remember such a vibrant, upbeat city that had so much to offer. I have no doubt Detroit will come back, but it's going to take a lot of work and even more positive thinking. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 1947 Registered: 09-2007 |
PREACH(Gogo)PREACH  | ||
Bragaboutme Member Username: Bragaboutme Post Number: 159 Registered: 02-2008 |
Exactly right GoGo, the problems exist because of the exodos of the business community and people plain and simple. PREACH(Gogo)PREACH | ||
Grumpyoldlady Member Username: Grumpyoldlady Post Number: 52 Registered: 06-2005 |
I most definitely did NOT mean anything implicating a particular race, and am sorry if my posting was misinterpreted. I DID mean that THEY...a combination of criminal types and those who don't give a hoot about caring for their property or looking out for their neighborhood...have made things so bad that many of the guilty ones don't want to stay in the mess they helped create, and instead move outward to do it all again. I am certainly not a racist, but in hindsight i see how my posting could have been interpreted as such. I apologize to anyone I unintentionally offended. There are good and bad in all racial, religious and economic groups. I've never given a hoot about the skin color, religious belief, country of origin or economic status of anyone who lives next door to me as long they are honest and law abiding. Also I'd hope they would at least try to maintain their home and yard. Being friendly and neighborly would be a plus, but if they don't want to talk to me, that's fine. I don't bother anybody and expect the same in return. I left Detroit because the behaviors of SOME of my neighbors resulted in me not feeling safe in my home and neighborhood...NOT because of the color of their skin or the country they were from. Just in case anyone is interested in where I lived in Detroit, I lived on the northeast side...on Wayburn between Morang and Moross. | ||
Grumpyoldlady Member Username: Grumpyoldlady Post Number: 53 Registered: 06-2005 |
Also, I agree with ExMotowner...you can only take so much. We moved because we feared for the safety of our young son after a neighbor took a shot at her boyfriend out the front door right after my son had ridden down the sidewalk on his bicycle. I still have a love for Detroit...I lived there 40 years...otherwise I wouldn't be reading and posting on this board. Back in the early days of Hart Plaza, when there were still parking lots down on the river below it, I remember walking from the parking lot through the Plaza on my way to work in the Guardian Building. One of the cement park benches was covered with blood, and there was a bloody t-shirt laying on one end. Other than being a bit curious as to what had happened during the previous night, I didn't give it much thought and wasn't afraid. Little by little, I became more afraid working downtown...and in the neighborhood I lived in. | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 914 Registered: 05-2004 |
You tell it like it was and is Grumpy. | ||
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican Post Number: 558 Registered: 02-2007 |
The ones that left Detroit are not to blame for it's downfall. So many Detroiters want to place the blame on others rather than facing the fact that it falls right in their laps. I for one left Detroit for the same reasons that exmotowner and grumpy left. When I left, my home was in pristine condition...for two reasons...first, I kept it that way and second, the City of Detroit had codes that had to be followed in order to leave. I had to lift my driveway so it was total level, I had to fix plumbing for the buyer, plumbing that I had lived with for 30 years and was perfectly fine; I had to bring my circuit box up to "code" according to the City. All of the above was in good working condition for all of the years I lived in the home, but not good enough for future buyers. After selling the home for no profit at all, and going back one year later to see my old homestead, I was shocked to see it's condition. Bars on the windows, front screen door hanging by a bolt, kitchen window busted out, fence torn down in driveway, garage door kicked in, trash everywhere. The couple who bought our home got a FHA loan, seemed to be very nice and family-orientated, but looking a year later I wonder. There was no reason for the house to look that way, no reason for a neighborhood to change drastically in a year's time. For 50 years people came and went in my neighborhood, what has changed? It's the people who changed. Apathy....and when there is no one else to blame for a neighborhood's decline, blame the people who left for the suburbs years prior, that makes a lot of sense. When are people going to take responsibility for their own actions and quit blaming others for their lack of care and concern for their neighborhood? Don't blame me, I left my home in great shape. | ||
Gogo Member Username: Gogo Post Number: 1410 Registered: 11-2003 |
Buyamerican, Exmotowner - Good for you. Hopefully your happy in your new community. I don't understand the need to look backwards and tell those who have moved into your former community how they should take care of it (or not take care of it). You have a city built for 2 million people. When 1 million leave, thats a problem. Plain and simple. You cannot expect the remaining 1 million people, to maintain a bustling city with every home in pristine condition just so you can drive by your old home and feel warm and fuzzy about your childhood. You left, that's your choice. The government subsidized your move to the burbs with new roads and infrastructure, home loans, etc. It did not subsidize the maintenance of existing roads and communitiess in urban areas. And then you want to blame those who remained to make Detroit work while nit picking about all its problems and how everyone who is in Detroit should fix it for you and how your memory remembers it was. Tough shit. | ||
Buyamerican Member Username: Buyamerican Post Number: 559 Registered: 02-2007 |
^^^^^ That's a total crock. That's a total cop-out. Lame excuses and placing the blame on someone else, again! There is no reason for a city to decline as bad as Detroit did unless the people inside the City limits just don't care, and that's it in a nutshell. The problem I have is that it was a great City once. I loved it, wanted to stay in it, but was pushed out by a City Government that had changed toward that City and was pushed out by those with such a lackadaisical attitude towards home, children, school, neighborhoods that it wasn't that great City any longer. Incidentally, I'm not trying to tell anyone how to run Detroit, that's what all of you residents elected those idiots in city hall to do. | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 718 Registered: 02-2007 |
"The government subsidized your move to the burbs..." A specious read - "government" has no independent source of wealth. Taxpayers funded the roads & infrastructure, and in light of the recent nonsense you can bet that many non-Detroiters are tickled that their tax monies support their own infrastructure and not the infidelities of a mayor. |
