  Andyguard73 Member Username: Andyguard73 Post Number: 283 Registered: 03-2006 |
I don't remember seeing a thread lately on Bank of America, so I thought I'd mentioned. I was in Pinkney this weekend for the Trail Marathon, and was visiting with family my cousins there the night before. One of their friends works for Bank of America, and I asked her if there were any rumors going around about a headquarters in Detroit. She said, fairly definitively, that they were putting a head quarters. I don't remember exactly what she said, but I'm under the impression that it'd be new construction. Full disclaimer: this is what I was told by an employee is going around. I haven't seen anything official, I just thought I'd mention it in case anyone else has heard anything about it. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 2015 Registered: 09-2007 |
Yeah, I sorta kinda got the hint from their Banner in Foxtown.  https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/messages/5/134146.html?1207793051 If this is true, I hope they do something like what Key Bank did in Cleveland. (Message edited by DetroitRise on April 27, 2008) | ||
Lifeinmontage Member Username: Lifeinmontage Post Number: 118 Registered: 10-2007 |
what did Key Bank do in Cleveland, Detroitrise? | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 2016 Registered: 09-2007 |
"what did Key Bank do in Cleveland, Detroitrise?" http://www.flickr.com/photos/t fiz/518460609/ | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1658 Registered: 11-2004 |
I have a hard time believing BOA will be building anything in the immediate future. Bank of America's earnings drop 77% and troubles may only grow CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- If the 77% drop in Bank of America's first-quarter earnings is any indication, the economy may have a long way to go before it works out the problems that began with the subprime-mortgage crisis. On Monday, the nation's largest retail bank quintupled the money it set aside for loans that go sour and hinted that consumer weakness and the housing slump mean that things will not get better for it -- or for the economy -- for some time. "I think... it would be too early to strike up the band and sing 'Happy Days are Here Again,' " Chief Executive Ken Lewis told analysts. He said the situation in the capital markets was particularly tough in March. Like many other banks, Charlotte-based Bank of America is besieged on two sides. Its bread-and-butter banking business is ailing because more people are failing to repay their loans. The credit crisis is also hobbling the value of many bank investments. Last week, crosstown rival Wachovia Corp. said it lost $393 million in the first quarter because of bad credit and tumultuous financial markets. Washington Mutual Inc. lost $1.1 billion. Wells Fargo & Co.'s profit fell 11%, JPMorgan Chase & Co.'s profit slid 50% and Citigroup Inc. posted a loss of $5.1 billion. If the economy doesn't turn around soon, more troubles could loom for Bank of America. It's set to acquire distressed subprime-mortgage lender Countrywide Financial Corp. later this year, and it holds the nation's biggest credit card business and retail branch network. In January, Bank of America agreed to acquire Countrywide, based in Calabasas, Calif., in a deal valued at about $4 billion in stock when it was announced. Countrywide is among the dozens of mortgage lenders that have battled an increase in mortgage defaults and foreclosures. Bank of America's shares dropped 95 cents, or about 2.5%, to $37.61. Write-downs -- largely in part because of more and more people missing payments on their credit cards and home loans -- led Bank of America to report a decline in first-quarter profit of $1.21 billion, or 23 cents a share, on $17 billion in revenue. That compared with net income of $5.26 billion, or $1.16 a share, a year earlier on $18.16 billion in revenue. http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=2008804220307 | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4700 Registered: 02-2005 |
BoA has built a lot of new buildings in the recent past: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B ank_of_america ^read their list of corporate buildings. Obviously there is nothing in Michigan yet, a market they are just entering in a big way. If they can build huge buildings in Atlanta and Jacksonville and St. Petersburg, I'm sure they'd be pondering a corporate HQ to accompany their new MI operations. With their interest in central cities, and the mayor's proficiency in attracting businesses, one should like Detroit's chances to get a regional HQ. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5959 Registered: 10-2003 |
Even if things were going well, they'd have little need for something huge up this way. Please do remember, mack, that the Atlanta tower wasn't built for BofA but NationsBank, and that the Jacksonville Tower was built for Barnett Bank. In fact, many of BofA's towers were not built for the bank rather something they acquired through takeovers/mergers. Please do remember, too, that where BofA has built giant towers they've done so in fast or relatively fast-growing markets. Population growth does account for something. At the moment, the Detroit market is a mature and stagnant market. Pointing to places like Atlanta, Jacksonville, and St. Pete are inappropriate comparisons at best. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 653 Registered: 12-2006 |
Hemingway, While the 77% drop in profits is troubling, do keep in mind that they did still turn a profit. If a bad quarter for them still leaves them in the black then they are WELL ahead of the Big 3. Think of this comparison. Ford has a $100 Million first quarter and we are talking about how they are making positive steps. BoA has a $1.21 BILLION quarter and they are concerned. | ||
Crew Member Username: Crew Post Number: 1427 Registered: 02-2004 |
Lmichigan, While it's true that the BoA building in Atlanta was built for NationsBank, that's the same company. Nations Bank bought BoA and decided to use the BoA name and drop NationsBank. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5963 Registered: 10-2003 |
Thanks for that correction. Still, it doesn't change the fact that many of BofA's current regional headquarters were acquired through takeovers and merger. My only point is that to expect some giant new tower in downtown Detroit would be more than premature. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 2467 Registered: 10-2006 |
Trust me. From the point of view of an employee in the architecture profession in Charlotte, NC, B of A isn't holding back much on building many more corporate high rises here in uptown Charlotte. For example, our firm is working on a 1400 space parking deck for one of the their new buildings. The high rise that they are currently building has work crews on it 7 days a week and 3 large carnes = lots of $$$. Chances are that if they were planning to build a new HQ in Detroit, that that as well would not be slowing down for any reason. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5966 Registered: 10-2003 |
Charlotte is a growing market with many more potential new customers. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 2468 Registered: 10-2006 |
Well, you also could argue that Charlotte is growing because it is Bank Town, USA, but that doesn't mean that B of A wouldn't consider about investing in other markets which it serves. I guess my point is that if they are doing so much building down here, it might be natural to expect some spin-off in other locations. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4706 Registered: 02-2005 |
I'd be happier if they just renovated the Stott Tower. No new buildings neccessary. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 654 Registered: 12-2006 |
LMichigan, For BofA, Detroit could be considered a growing customer market for them. With Comerica so firmly entrenched here for so many years, BofA didn't make a lot of headway in the Detroit market. Now with Comerica choosing to move its investments elsewhere, there is a whole in the market available to be filled. Don't forget that in spite of the economic conditions this is still a market with over 5 million people in it. That is a LOT of potential customers out there. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5969 Registered: 10-2003 |
Good point, but didn't LaSalle and National City pick up where Comerica left off? And, I wonder how many Comerica customer really dropped their accounts with the bank? Really, I'm not trying to imply that BofA couldn't have a larger presence in this market, but all of this talk of new signature skyscrapers just seems so incredibly premature. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6741 Registered: 08-2004 |
All they would need to do is lease 1001 Woodward, and they would already have a bank tower taller than the nearby Chase Tower (former NBD HQ). Granted it's not the Key Tower or the Charlotte HQ, but in this market, it'll do. Plus it would have a premium corner in downtown on Campus Martius, and take care of an empty, but elegant granite clad former bank tower. | ||
Fastcarsfreedom Member Username: Fastcarsfreedom Post Number: 310 Registered: 11-2005 |
Okay...not to be picky, but the Atlanta tower wasn't even built for NationsBank--it was built for Citizens & Southern (C&S) which was a major Southeastern US regional that NCNB (NationsBank's legacy name) bought prior to the new building being completed. Indeed, Jacksonville was the Barnett HQ (Barnett's sale is still a big sore point down that way...) As for Key--Key inherited the building in Cleveland which was built by Society Bank. Key had been headquartered in New York State--but liked the Cleveland Society Center so much that they moved in. Cesar Pleli the great post-modernist is responsible for the Society Center turned Key Tower. | ||
Crew Member Username: Crew Post Number: 1428 Registered: 02-2004 |
Fastcars, thanks for the clarification! That being the case, don't they now own the large building in Troy which was the HQ for Standard Federal? I understand that BoA prefers to be located in downtown locations but in this market they won't be able to sell the Troy building. I doubt we'll see them downtown anytime soon. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5974 Registered: 10-2003 |
National City bought the Top of Troy Building, unless BofA bought some other signature office building in Troy. | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 1652 Registered: 11-2003 |
Does it really matter? Do we need a building or a sign atop one to validate anything? | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 656 Registered: 12-2006 |
Viziondetroit, The building and the sign aren't the point. It is what they represent. If BofA moves their offices downtown then that means more people downtown to support local business and more taxbase for the city. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 2028 Registered: 09-2007 |
Besides, I think it's about time Detroit received a new skyscraper with a huge presence in the skyline (the casinos aren't seen in most pictures), and B of A + Quicken could be the ones to take that step. Does anyone else agree? (Message edited by DetroitRise on April 30, 2008) | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 4191 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: No. See: Renaissance Center, 1977. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 657 Registered: 12-2006 |
Danindc, It depends upon the design of the structure. If the design is open and inviting to the area around it, then the building will tie in nicely with the surrounding area. However, if it is built like a fortress, as the Ren-Cen was, then it will be a failure. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 4194 Registered: 10-2003 |
The fortress issue is irrelevant. Go to Atlanta and tell me that isn't an entire downtown of fortress architecture. The Renaissance Center was pushed by Henry Ford II in an ill-advised effort to spur investment in downtown Detroit. The massive complex was supposed to INSPIRE people to want to invest their money there. Instead, the massive glut of space kept the downtown real estate market depressed for decades. No one invests millions of dollars based on their postcard collection. Lease rates are currently extremely low in Detroit. Adding a "signature" tower is virtually guaranteed to keep those rates low. Developers aren't going to build if they can't recover their investment. Detroit would be better off by filling the existing space it has, and tightening the market up a bit. One final thought: Paris is a city of 8-story buildings. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 1116 Registered: 01-2005 |
Gistok: Your suggestion is way too practical for the institutional mind to grasp. Danindc: Not to nitpick (although I will anyway), rents in Detroit are not "low." They are what they are...what the market seems to be saying is what they should be (notwithstanding the continuing serious vacancy problem.) Rents may be higher or lower than historical averages or the rents in other markets, but I believe classifying them as high or low is not appropriate. It may be of interest to know some of BA's plans. An associate has many real estate loans with LaSalle/ABM Ambro, now BA. He recently was notified that BA will not renew any of its $3.5 billion in commercial (incl RE) loans when they mature. The scamble is on, believe me. I can think of nothing more disastrous to the regional economy that that.(My friend's loans are on properties in the suburbs and several other states, once totalling almost $50 million.) | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3057 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: How about rents are low in relation to those of other comparably sized metropolitan areas? | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 4198 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: $25/sf for Class A space is dirt cheap. You can't make any money leasing new construction at those rates, especially when you have to build a 50,000 space parking structure to accompany it. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 1565 Registered: 12-2004 |
What are we to make of the full page Bank of America add in today's Freep (4A). It has the catchphrase, "Coming Soon: Even More Opportunity," written over an image of the Fox Theater's marquee...then it says we should wait until May 5th... | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 1117 Registered: 01-2005 |
D-in-DC: You missed my point completely. Oh well. You say $25/sf for Class A office space is "dirt cheap." It may be in Manhattan. It's way too high for Detroit. Listed below are some asking rates for downtown Detroit buildings, several of which are Class A: 525 E. Jefferson $12/sf annually 150 W. Jefferson $14 (may be a typo from the source, but not higher than $18.00) Historic Globe Building $14.40 Barden Companies (next to DAC) $20 (probably no space available and I don't think he rents to the public.) One Kennedy Square $23.50 (asking) Marquette Building $13.00 Dime Building $19.50 (asking; get it for much less if you need a lot of space. The bldg is a financial disaster.) Penobscot/First National $14-15.50 (very high vacancy) It seems to me (does it not for you ?), that the asking rates above may be too high, based on the vacancy rates. The source for the asking prices above is loopnet.com, but you have to be a paid subscriber to access the info. Perhaps there's someone else on the forum who can check out the numbers. (Loopnet is a leading source of national real estate info re: sales, leasing etc.) It's true that the Comerica Building (formerly, Hines, which went broke)has firms (MI Bell, Det Edison et al) paying $26/sf, but the tenants signed accomodation leases in order to help get financing, those tenants never occupied the building, and early on sublet their space for much, much less. I notice your reference to a "50,000" space parking structure. Possibly a typo? Dan, your posts evidence a superficial knowlege of the topics you comment upon, but especially real estate related ones. They're therefor misleading for others on the forum who may, because of your claimed expertise, want to rely on your views for some reason. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 4212 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: So WHY on earth with anyone having half a brain suggest to build a humongous "signature" tower in downtown Detroit? THAT is the question! | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 1118 Registered: 01-2005 |
And, it's a good question. What do you think is the answer? | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5980 Registered: 10-2003 |
Instead of arguing over irrelevant issues with him, 3rdworld, perhaps you should have taken note of his main point which happens to be my main point. If BofA is building a single-tenant tower for themselves, that's one thing, but building huge amounts of speculative space in hopes of attracting other tenants doesn't seem to be smart, at the moment. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 1119 Registered: 01-2005 |
Lmichigan: In my opinion, you are correct. In my opinion, BA is never going to build a regional HQ in Detroit. The current HQ in Troy is a unique, modern, efficient and beautiful building. Why leave it? If BA wanted to build a new HQ anywhere, it would have to be a single occupant building as you state, because as you and Dan conclude, it makes no economic sense at all to build a new rental building and won't for many years in my opinion, if ever. On the other hand, did anyone consider that the proposed, highly subsidized Quicken HQ be shared as a joint HQ w/ BA? BA is trying, as evidenced by its proposed acquisition of Countrywide, which bought most of Q's loans, to become the largest presence in residential lending over the years, and BA may finance the Q HQ, for example, or be the major or sole tenant in the second bldg Q has to build. Get some naming rights to part of the bldg. (OK, so it's far fetched.) | ||
Mrsjdaniels Member Username: Mrsjdaniels Post Number: 836 Registered: 08-2005 |
BofA bought LaSalle | ||
Wilus1mj Member Username: Wilus1mj Post Number: 264 Registered: 05-2005 |
They're donating 500K to Eastern Market this year. | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 1668 Registered: 11-2003 |
I love hearing from the economic development gurus in this forum. If Dyes'ers had their way, downtown would look like the Tokyo with a million high rises and the rest of the city would look like shit. All old buildings would be left standing and renovated with funds from the never ending pot of gold for preservation. | ||
Thegryphon Member Username: Thegryphon Post Number: 51 Registered: 11-2007 |
Question: why does Troy have all those regional banking hqs anyway? EG. the massive National City, Huntington, BoA (old LaSalle) etc. Tax difference? | ||
W_chicago Member Username: W_chicago Post Number: 19 Registered: 01-2008 |
A few new towers would be nice in Detroit, but they would have to be really really nice architecture, as good if not better than the other towers downtown (no monolithic ugly box). But I agree with folks that say we need to fill the existing empty space first, although a lot of it could be filled with lofts, apartments and smaller offices. Also we need to fill up all the empty parking lots downtown. I'd like to see them all get built on first, before thinking about new towers. 8-12 story buildings would be perfect for Downtown. I agree with the "fortress" sentiment in regards to huge towers, and ESPECIALLY the RenCen. Infill and building the street wall are more important the big flashy towers. | ||
Fareastsider Member Username: Fareastsider Post Number: 881 Registered: 08-2006 |
So what was the big news from BOA today that was in that ad last week? | ||
Busterwmu Member Username: Busterwmu Post Number: 477 Registered: 09-2004 |
I wouldn't mind seeing a Key Bank type tower (Cleveland) on the Hudson's site. Perhaps not of the same scale as Key Tower, but I love the way it fills the Cleveland Skyline and think it's a very aesthetically pleasing building. It would compliment the Madden Building and Comerica Tower in modern skyscraper architecture. Speaking of Bank of America, has another heard their new radio adds highlighting some elements of Detroit's history. I heard one today on Channel 955. Pretty cool. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6775 Registered: 08-2004 |
The underground parking structure on the Hudson's site will not support anything taller than about 15-20 floors. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 1205 Registered: 02-2006 |
quote: They revealed the BOS signs today, replacing the LaSalle signs. | ||
Greatlakes Member Username: Greatlakes Post Number: 198 Registered: 07-2007 |
They certainly are pushing Detroit icons in their new website: http://lasalle.bankofamerica.c om/michigan/welcome.jsp | ||
Rbdetsport Member Username: Rbdetsport Post Number: 492 Registered: 11-2005 |
They have got to be planning a regional headquarters move downtown! Everything that they have done for the area has been in Detroit City Limits. I can't wait to hear something. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4739 Registered: 02-2005 |
Yeah it's all Detroit imagery on their regional website, and there are multiple videos highlighting business they've already done with Detroit entities like Eastern Market. They seem to really regard Detroit in an interesting way, and I'm waiting patiently for some interesting news. W_Chicago, I agree with your post. Exclamation points are nice, but we really need to fill things in. A rehab of the Broderick, Book, and Stott Towers should really be counted as exclamation points just as much as the creation of new buildings. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 2052 Registered: 09-2007 |
I'm sure it's also a marketing ploy too. B of A is known for their CBD/downtown presence, and it would be a good idea if they advertised as if they had a presence in downtown Detroit. | ||
Beatsworking Member Username: Beatsworking Post Number: 115 Registered: 08-2004 |
Did anyone see the ad in today's Free Press? It was a 2 page, color spread featuring the Joe Louis fist. It was pretty sweet. | ||
Daytwa Member Username: Daytwa Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2007 |
There were BOA reps walking around the CBD today handing out little marketing freebies. I got a BOA stressball that looks like a baseball. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 2098 Registered: 11-2003 |
quote: Just curious about what you mean by not renewing loans? Are the terms of the loans becoming more strict? It is true that lenders are tightening up lending standards right now (as they well should be). I noticed some of the local La Salle branches have just switched over to BofA. I've had my checking account with Michigan National -> Standard Federal -> La Salle -> Bank of America for a while now. BofA seems like a relatively well run lender. Well, except for their recent offer to buy Countrywide... hopefully they will come to their senses and walk away from that disaster. |
