 
Flanders_field
Member
Username: Flanders_field
Post Number: 325
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 12:12 am: |    |
At St. David Church in the late 60s -early 70s we had a priest named Fr. Geary who would admonish and verbally insult the churchgoers, when he would take his turn saying mass, for their supposed racial prejudices during his sermons/homilies.
At first many of the parishoners would just stand up and leave, eventually weeks later some started yelling back at him, and then some months later even began to throw their church missals (missiles..LOL) at him.
Not positive, but I believe that not too long after he left that parish, he left the priesthood and got married.
It was very entertaining to attend his masses, and I began to look forward to them, rather than attend the other rectory priests' masses, or the old Monsignor's, as he had the longest sermons that would nearly put me to sleep.
From an article that I found while browing for any reference to Fr. Geary, in Time Magazine Feb 21st 1970:
>>Case Investigator Maurice Geary, formerly of St. David's Church in Detroit, is "happy as hell that I'm on the outside." A civil rights militant, he left the priesthood after the archdiocese tried to demote him from his parish assignment to a lesser job. Unlike many former clerics who still regard themselves as priests but inactive ones, Geary has abandoned any sense of the ministry. "I wasn't looking to start my own church," he says. "Why should I light a candle and play games by celebrating the Mass in the basement?"<<
(Message edited by Flanders_field on May 03, 2008) |
Flyingj
Member
Username: Flyingj
Post Number: 174
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 12:44 am: | |
Dtowncitylover-really? I swear in one of his autobiographies Tom Hayden went into a bit on how he attended Shrine High. You've really sent me into "The Time Toilet"(i.e. Internet) on this-thanks to you I now know "Ordinary People's" Judith Guest went to Dondero & was Edgar Guest's niece
Sean_of_detroit, it was the Jesuits gig to "question everything" but the National Lampoon's Doug Kenney theory was that was merely a tactic for them to smoke out the rebels & co-op them |
Retroit
Member
Username: Retroit
Post Number: 41
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 12:10 am: | |
Reading the above posts makes me admire Catholics who have kept their faith is spite of the abuse from such evil "holy people". A priest that blames God for an evil act of Man, a nun who uses an object of religious devotion for an instrument of punishment, priests "being alone" with children. Very upsetting! Makes you wonder how they justified their actions in their own mind, and how they will do so when they face Judgement. |
14andhayes
Member
Username: 14andhayes
Post Number: 20
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 2:26 am: | |
There are different orders of the Christian Brothers.
The ones that ran/founded St. Joseph, De La Salle, and Bishop Gallagher are the De La Salle Christian Brothers which were founded by St. John Baptist De La Salle in 17th century France(and made Christian Brothers Brandy until the 1980s).
The order that founded Brother Rice is the Congregation of Christian Brothers founded by Blessed Edmund Rice in Ireland in the 19th century.
Not sure what order ran Cathedral. |
Townonenorth
Member
Username: Townonenorth
Post Number: 33
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 8:21 am: | |
Retroit, I wouldn't consider all of these "evil" people. It was simply the way things were. The way they were raised, the culture. Even in the public schools there were those that used corporal punishment a just a little too much. The abusers, well, I'm sure that there's a corner of hell awaiting that bunch. There is always the opportunity for that sort of person to take advantage in an "authority figure" relationship in any setting. Teachers, ministers, etc. Not placing the child in that situation should be on the mind of any parent. People back then were far too trusting. |
Birwood
Member
Username: Birwood
Post Number: 87
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 10:21 am: | |
The religious order that ran Detroit Cathedral HS were the Brothers of Christian Instruction, headquartered in Limestone Maine.
They were all mostly of French-Canadian decent and had names to match i.e: Brothers: Claude Paradis, Pauk Bolduc, Marcel Gagnon, Andrew Moisan, Patrick Couture, Armand Chauvette etc.
The only foreign language taugh at that school was French and Latin.
After Cathedral closed, I'm not sure of any of the brothers stayed on in the Detroit Area |
D2dyeah
Member
Username: D2dyeah
Post Number: 110
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 10:51 am: | |
In 1959 our mother was ill, so my brother and I lived with my Grandma and Grandpa for a year. We went to St. Hedwig. One day I was talking to a kid behind me and sister Anne told me to stop and turn around. I guess I didn't turn fast enough because the next thing I knew, I was hit on the forehead with a wooden eraser. The cut was small, but the blood was everywhere and I got really scared and ran out into the hall. I tried to leave the building , but 3 nuns grabbed me and it got even more dramatic.. Grandma picked me up, took me home, calmed me down. My Great-Grandma was visiting that day, and she told my Grandma I could come stay with her and go to Our lady queen of Angels. She said the Sisters were nicer there and it would be better for me because the nuns got to "DO IT" once a month. |
Flyingj
Member
Username: Flyingj
Post Number: 179
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 1:29 pm: | |
D2dyeah, this is the part where I ask what "DO IT" means |
Gazhekwe
Member
Username: Gazhekwe
Post Number: 2008
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 2:10 pm: | |
Flanders, I worked with former Father Geary in the early 70s, interesting pre-history. I later found out my Aunt was involved in some kind of underground group where he was one of her "contacts". I never found out what the group actually did. |
Flanders_field
Member
Username: Flanders_field
Post Number: 327
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 3:29 pm: | |
Gaz, maybe it was the SDS..LOL!!
The St. David's grade school girls initially had navy blue uniforms, with an embroidered patch in white lettering of "SDS" on the vests, before they were updated to a pleated plaid multi shaded grayish color...
A nun, whose name, if I remember correctly, was at first Sr. Bertrand, was principal of the grade school, would occasionally stop the girls in the hallways or in the classrooms, if she thought that their skirts were hemmed too far above the knee, and make them kneel on the floor. If the edge of their skirts did not touch it, she would take out a pair of scissors and rip the hem's stitching out. |
Stinger4me
Member
Username: Stinger4me
Post Number: 230
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 3:35 pm: | |
Some really interesting viewpoints on Catholic education. The education could be good but some of the drawbacks may have proved to be overly negative for some. I found the Christian Brothers to be better than nuns. There are those who suffered abuse from them. The position of the catholic church these days regarding those abuses is indeed unique. |
Swiburn
Member
Username: Swiburn
Post Number: 249
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 9:06 am: | |
Flyingj,
Tom Hayden went to Dondero H.S. He lived near me in Royal Oak and his mother worked, I believe, for the Ferndale Schools in a building near Hazel Park. |
Spacemonkey
Member
Username: Spacemonkey
Post Number: 531
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 9:23 am: | |
The screenwriter who wrote "Grosse Pointe Blank" went to my Catholic High School: Bishop Foley. |
Frankg
Member
Username: Frankg
Post Number: 227
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 11:03 am: | |
Flanders - I ran into ex-Fr. Geary recently, he was supporting the striking American Axle workers at their picket lines in Hamtramck. He continues to be very active in the Michigan Alliance to Strengthen Social Security and Medicare, the Gray Panthers, Democratic Socialists of America, and several other organizations. I for one find his continued activism very, very inspiring. My parents are not fond of him though, they were among those who found Fr. Geary's anti-war activities disturbing. My Uncle was drafted and apparently Fr. Geary tried talking him out of reporting to Fort Wayne for induction. My Mom says Msgr. Stitt finally had to publish which priests were saying which masses so people who didn't like Fr. Geary wouldn't inadvertently go to his mass. I was in Sr. Jean's first grade class when he left the priesthood in 1967, so I don't remember much of him from then. By the way, my Dad had Sr. Jean for a first grade teacher at St. David's, too! Anytime I would act up in class she'd tell me to behave and she couldn't figure out why I was acting up because my Dad never did when he was in her first grade class!
http://www.michsocialsecurity. org/index.htm
http://kincaidsite.com/dsa/
http://www.graypanthersmetrode troit.org/ |
Flanders_field
Member
Username: Flanders_field
Post Number: 328
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 12:47 pm: | |
Frankg, I had Sr. Peter Marie as my first grade teacher, and she was a top notch teacher who taught my class phonics, and as a result greatly expanded my vocabulary and spelling abilities at a very early age. I could pronounce, define, and spell words by the second grade, that even my parents had difficulty with.
But I did not get along with the nun that was my second grade teacher: Sr. Simplicia, she sensed that I did not respect her, as I did my first grade teacher, and my report card from waaay back then (which I still possess) reflects that, I received mostly failing grades in conduct.
As far as ex-Fr. Geary, his non-violent activism for causes and issues that he believes in is admirable. Since the 21st century appears to be turning into a political battleground for the future survival of the middle class, young and old, in the US, concerned citizens would all do well to follow his lead.
But he was not exactly "preaching to the choir" during his years as a priest at St. David's Church in the 60s, IMO, he would have perhaps managed to get the parishoners back then to listen to his sermons without becoming so agitated, had he preached using third person examples, instead of mostly direct accusations.
If you are who I think you are, your blog is very well done, and you have a great deal of memories of the old neighborhood for someone who only spent about a decade of their lifetime in it. You also may have attended class for a few years at St. David's grade school with my younger sister Suzy.
(Message edited by Flanders_field on May 05, 2008)
(Message edited by Flanders_field on May 05, 2008) |
Frankg
Member
Username: Frankg
Post Number: 228
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 5:31 pm: | |
Flanders - with a last name like Goeddeke (pronounced like get-a-key and open the door) I had quite a bit of trouble learning phonics. But once I got past my last name I was golden.
I had Mrs. Waleki (sp?) for my second-grade teacher at St. David's. Sr. Anne for third grade in the church basement, who happened to be Sr. Jean's biological sister. Finally, Mrs. Peterson for fourth. Then we moved to Lansing in the summer between grades 4 and 5.
I do have a blog about the old neighborhood so I am probably who you think I am. I haven't done much with it lately because I have been working two jobs. I am retiring from one job on Friday so maybe I'll have more time for it later. I do have several topics to blog about.
Suzy... does your last name begin with L and have 4 letters? |
Paulmcall
Member
Username: Paulmcall
Post Number: 979
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 7:12 pm: | |
St Mary of Redford grade school is closing this June. Another good school bites the dust. |
Winstin_o_boogie_iii
Member
Username: Winstin_o_boogie_iii
Post Number: 128
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 7:46 pm: | |
Paulmcall: SMR is having a Closing Mass scheduled for June 8 @ 11am
I was the fifth and last of my immediate family to attend and graduate from SMR. Fifth-that's five kids and most of my friends at SMR came from larger families. |
Pamequus
Member
Username: Pamequus
Post Number: 163
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 2:54 pm: | |
I went to Christ the King for 7th and 8th grade and then Mercy for HS. Have to say I felt pretty good about myself before CTK but the nuns managed to destroy all of my self esteem. Mercy was somewhat better though I've been plagued with the Catholic guilt trip most of my life. Can't imagine why there is (was?) a theory of trashy one's innocence in the name of faith. |
Jcole
Member
Username: Jcole
Post Number: 525
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 3:04 pm: | |
Pam, I think it was their way of keeping us humble. They didn't understand the difference between letting you know that you weren't the center of the universe, and beating your self esteem to a bloody pulp. The guilt thing is pretty universal unless you were REALLY good, or you had a very thick skin.
I did 11 years of Catholic school, 25 years of drinking and about 7 years of therapy, and I still haven't gotten over it all. |
Southwestmap
Member
Username: Southwestmap
Post Number: 1005
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 3:15 pm: | |
Pam: so the IHM's destroyed your self-esteem! Did anyone even know about self-esteem then? had anyone even heard of it? And did you know that "personal self-esteem" as a goal is even now falling out of educational favor, because focusing on "self-esteem" seems to be detrimental to productive citizenship.
You lost your self-esteem because of the nuns, but you don't tell us - did you learn a lot? I would guess that you are one of the best-educated women you know and that you are proud of it.
That's the Catholic School difference - real well educated people. |
Newport1128
Member
Username: Newport1128
Post Number: 188
Registered: 05-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 6:48 pm: | |
"Catholic guilt trip"? What part of "Thou shalt not" didn't you understand?
I had "the nuns" for 12 years, and graduated with an excellent eduction and my self-esteem intact. Self-esteem is not a gift; you earn it by your deeds. Maybe what the IHM's helped you develop was a conscience, which can be oh-so-inconvenient at times. |
Jcole
Member
Username: Jcole
Post Number: 535
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 08, 2008 - 8:27 pm: | |
I had 11 years of the nuns and I came out with an excellent education and a drinking problem. |
Paulmcall
Member
Username: Paulmcall
Post Number: 992
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 7:57 am: | |
I think it was an early version of basic training.
Public schools kids didn't seem to come out unscathed either. Plenty of druggies and drunks. |
Eastburn
Member
Username: Eastburn
Post Number: 74
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 8:50 am: | |
JC, I had 15 years of Catholic ed. Bill W. helped with the other. Not that I really think they're connected. |
Southwestmap
Member
Username: Southwestmap
Post Number: 1007
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 9:30 am: | |
Right - It's a big stretch to say that rigorous private schooling caused you to be an alcoholic.
A personal story: I have a friend who has spent 40 years blaming our 12th Grade moderator (an IHM) for causing him to lose a an athletic scholarship to a Michigan college. He claims she sabotaged his application (and it was a slam-dunk for him supposedly) because she didn't approve of secular colleges. He tells it far and wide and bitterly.
But the real (and obvious to others) truth is that it probably isn't true. I know because the same IHM worked hard to get my classmate a scholarship to UM (and succeeded) to my friend's everlasting gratitude and she worked hard to get tons of us in WSU and me to Kent State because that was a great journalism school.
I am skeptical of most of the nun-bitterness (they made me an alcoholic!) stories. They asked a lot and they gave a lot. They made mistakes (just like mom and dad). They lived humbly and quietly and generously. They tried to do the right thing. They deserve better than to be blamed because our lives didn't turn out as expected. |
Jcole
Member
Username: Jcole
Post Number: 537
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 9:49 am: | |
Just like the rest of society, there were nuns who were kind and caring, and gave their all for their students, and there were those that were out and out cruel and/or had emotional problems of their own. (I had a High School nun that told us the Blessed Mother broke her arm for having evil thoughts.)You'll find that among lay teachers too, but the difference is that public schools usually have to get rid of the bad apples because parents raise hell.
I admit I got a wonderful education, and that not all of my problems stem from Catholic school. Some of my best memories are from those schools, but also some of my worst.
Nuns are human. They have favorite students, and students that they see as needing more punishment, and they give it. And when I talk about Catholic Guilt, I don't mean obeying the "thou shalt nots' it's believing that every bad thing you do causes bad things to happen to others as a consequence of your actions. Retribution unto others. |
Mikeg
Member
Username: Mikeg
Post Number: 1611
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 10:03 am: | |
Accepting personal responsibility for one's decisions is a practice that many people have a hard time with, regardless of who and where their "teachers" were. This concept was never on any of our final exams, but eventually it becomes clear to others whether or not we have learned this most important life lesson. |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 12743
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 10:17 am: | |
MY college funding went to pay for the annulment of my parent's marriage.
That changed my life.
Now I'm a bastard, and the money my father had to otherwise help me through post-secondary education was spent on some ancient business machine.
THAT helped make me the pain-in-the-butt that I am today...here...now.
So, YOU all can thank the Catholic Church for the outlaw renegade gadfly rogue philosopher/theosopher that I've become.
In a way...heh.
(weird, while writing this post, I just had an old high-school friend call me, and mention listening to Styx on my killer hifi OVER TWENTY FIVE YEARS AGO, specifically the song Renegade...this is going to be one of those days!)
Cheers, all, drop these anchors from the past and get ON with your lives. (looking deeply into the mirror) |
Southwestmap
Member
Username: Southwestmap
Post Number: 1008
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 10:39 am: | |
Please explain how/why your Father had to pay for the annulment process when the whole process is free - at least now it is and has been for some time (my professional lifetime). The marriage Tribunal is funded by the Catholic Services Appeal.
There is a stage that does cost (maximum $800) if one or both of the parties wants to appeal the local decision and the case is sent to Rome.
As to your sudden "bastardization" - you know that is not true. A RC annulment is an acknowledgement that a sacramental marriage, a true growth in Christ, was not possible from the beginning for any or many reasons having to do with the intentions of the partners, their capability to make a marriage, promises they may have made that they didn't intend to keep, etc.. It does not pretend that the legal children of the marriage are not legitimate. |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 12746
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 11:23 am: | |
Ha-ha f-ng ha, you make me laugh at your lame attempts to defend this oldest running business in history.
Please tell me the difference between a suggested donation to the parish and diocese to cover the expenses along with further donations for the priviledge...and your definition of free. There is simply no official price charged in advance, other than the official one you state.
You have NO idea what happens between any priest and their charges...none of us do when it is behind closed doors...that is why abuses can happen. Have happened. Will happen without all seeking, asking, and knocking for the Spirit of God and expecting to hear God's voice. For each individual, not some thinking they have to go to some other person to engage the Maker...that is not correct in any way, we've not needed priests since Yeshua/Jesus' sacrifice was accepted and His reincarnation/resurrection was made complete.
(Doesn't mean that people cannot stumble into a relationship with God if they choose to follow this Catholic path, but I believe it is largely in SPITE of it...if not totally.)
Cheers, I am GLAD to be a bastard within the Catholic church...or actually without it.
I have the most complete and true growth in Christ available to each mere human...and it is getting more alive and real to me each and every day I am outside the Catholic spiritual slavery experience!
Cheers |
Southwestmap
Member
Username: Southwestmap
Post Number: 1009
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 11:29 am: | |
The annulment process is free of charge. The expenses are minimal - perhaps a stenographer (although I have never heard of it). I hardly believe that your Father spent all your college-planned money to cover the expenses (that no one else had to pay for) of the anullment.
See why I am cynical of all the RC bitterness. I absolutely know the truth about "fees and expenses" and if anyone on this forum wants to call the AOD marriage Tribunal and check on this, they can. |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 12748
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 11:32 am: | |
Swest,
You are defending a dead institution.
Give it up.
Get closer to God instead of propping up this bunch of power hungry cronies.
There is still chance for you.
Cheers |
Southwestmap
Member
Username: Southwestmap
Post Number: 1010
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 11:40 am: | |
Gannon: did you call the Marriage Tribunal to check on the costs to get a annulment? Or do you not want your bitter fantasy challenged?
No, I am Catholic, through and through. My Irish ancestors kept the faith through famine and tears. I will, too. I know that people are error-filled and weak. But the Church endures and saves.
You don't have to agree, but please don't continue to promulgate such a ridiculous fantasy that you lost your chance at college because your Father had lay out his savings for an annulment. |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 12750
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 11:53 am: | |
Hang onto your deadness, then, for tradition's sake.
Hey, I didn't lose my chance at college...I took two MORE turns at it and it still didn't fit. Doesn't make the money wasted on the church's stupid rules (and the priest's likely personal money grabs) any less of an issue, not one whit!
Don't take my words about mere money and miss the overall lesson about the dead institution you so dearly hold onto.
heh
Your church will not endure...God seems pretty active on getting all the things done in secret out into the light. It seems supernatural the wonderful attacks that the evil within have sustained recently...THAT is what I rail against.
St. Malachi's vision includes only ONE more pope until the end of the church...this one you've got now is a doozy of a fellow.
You should read through chapters 2 and 3 of the Book of Revelation to see if the Spirit talks to you about the failures of the 'seven churches'...I have been over the last couple morning's meditations, and have been wonderfully chastised into better behavior.
Or just go to your priest and have him tell you how none of that matters as long as you follow some dead history lesson within some dead sacraments (if you don't have the Spirit working within and through you)
Cheers! |
Mikeg
Member
Username: Mikeg
Post Number: 1613
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 11:55 am: | |
^^ What a boorish display of religious intolerance. |
Rax
Member
Username: Rax
Post Number: 263
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 11:56 am: | |
quote:Hey, I didn't lose my chance at college...I took two MORE turns at it and it still didn't fit. Doesn't make the money wasted on the church's stupid rules (and the priest's likely personal money grabs) any less of an issue, not one whit!
Don't take my words about mere money and miss the overall lesson about the dead institution you so dearly hold onto
When you don't believe in the concept of money, it really isn't much of an issue. |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 12752
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 12:04 pm: | |
Mine is more not understanding how most don't understand the direct instruction to avoid the LOVE of money...and the results therein.
Religious intolerance, you say, Mikeg?
No, institutional intolerance...what happens when an organization becomes an organism and begins to do things to sustain itself that are directly opposed to the reason they were founded in the first place!
Spiritual acceptance, religious rejection...I'll accept that. I think anyone can get closer to God within whatever religion they choose to follow. But I also have seen how those religions seem to get in the way of people actually encountering God directly...which is what I believe HE (SHE and/or IT) wants in the first place.
Religions are NOT necessary for one to get directly in relationship with the Maker, they often serve the direct opposite purpose.
The only way to recognize an dangerous one is when they say they are the ONLY way to get to the most Creative and Beautiful Being in existence...who doesn't seem to ever do the same thing twice the same way. Ever.
Cheers |
Southwestmap
Member
Username: Southwestmap
Post Number: 1011
Registered: 01-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 12:22 pm: | |
Gannon: I don't care if you desire a religious practice based on a personality cult (I have read your posts a long time, whether some preacher or even Bishop Gumbleton (for the St. Leo's people who read this). Go for it. I don't care if you want to put more faith than I do in obscure dreams of medieval Irish monks, or Nostradamus, or anyone like that. Go for it.
But I get annoyed when you or anyone maligns the Catholic Church, suggests that it is fatally venal, or licentious, or grasping and fake your references. I wonder why you feel that's an OK thing to do? I want you to at least own up to your stretching of the truth in service of your personal agenda to malign the Catholic Church.
You wrote "Don't take my words about mere money and miss the overall lesson..." Does that translate "I was stretching the truth a little and you called me out so I will attack you personally as stupid, faithless,intolerant? |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 12754
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 09, 2008 - 12:43 pm: | |
I'm not the one revealing the evil practises that have been MAINTAINED within your beloved institution.
Talk to the One, and see why He thinks that's an OK thing to do. Seems HE is doing it more and more every single day.
You just might be one within the church with faith and allowing the full flow of the Holy Spirit...just like my mother, who kept to her faith until the end, although it failed HER on the day we buried her.
IF SO, you will be needed to help point the way to God through the ending of the institution...which if you haven't noticed is dying from every ill it allowed throughout the ages...and NOT because the devil is doing it but because God is shining a light upon the evils mankind has allowed.
Both my mother and father, and now step-mother are fine examples of servants who stayed within the Catholic Church and humbly serve others when called upon, often well beyond their requirements.
My mother talked in the past of having visions, she actually chastised a priest in a confessional because of a vision she had when she stepped into the box.
Call me what you will, just get closer to God so you can help those less able to tell the difference between some silly, misguided merely human institution and a move of the Spirit of God...because they are not even CLOSE to being the same!
I'll go check with God again, to see if I'm doing his work...you should, too.
Much love and cheers! |
7andkelly
Member
Username: 7andkelly
Post Number: 420
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 11:59 pm: | |
"Let's all try to get along" - Rodney King. |
Flyingj
Member
Username: Flyingj
Post Number: 190
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 3:53 am: | |
7andkelly, that's "can't we all get along?" This thread got awfully deep in a jiffy |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 12772
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 8:39 am: | |
I thought he asked WHY can't we all just get along?
Why does my little analysis cause such deep consternation in a person?
I am not telling anyone to stop what they're doing, I'm merely saying to get closer to God in order to INSURE what they are doing is positive to their and every else's growth, and positive enjoyment of life!
The Catholic institution is not perfect, nothing on this earth created and maintained by mere humans CAN BE.
Each of us CAN, though, get as close to the Maker as possible, WITHIN whatever institutions we choose to join or remain a member of...possibly and probably fulfilling our destiny on this planet this lifetime.
That's all I'm saying...defend what you will, but make SURE of what you're doing, and what you're up against.
Don't do something just because that is how it has always been done, especially if what contains and maintains those traditions is clearly harmful to anyone. By then, they have outlived their usefulness and are now a huge part of the problem.
What an organism has to do to survive often outlives their reason for being in the first place.
There is always time to repent, if we still have breath. All things are possible through God, no matter HOW we mere humans continually screw things up...especially in committee!
Cheers! |
Ggores
Member
Username: Ggores
Post Number: 86
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 8:48 am: | |
i have a fond memory of going to a catholic high school even though i am southern baptist by heart. smoking lounge for the students, dope deals before the first bell, and the whole cheerleading squad was scleaning ALL the friggin' time. a couple nuns were nice, one of 'em turned me on to dante. sweet. no lie either. |
7andkelly
Member
Username: 7andkelly
Post Number: 424
Registered: 04-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 9:39 am: | |
Back in the 60's, one nun suggested we pray the following prayer any time we hear the sound of an ambulance or fire truck. I still pray this prayer to this day:
Hail Mary, full of grace.
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus (bow your head here).
Holy Mary, mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now, and at the hour of our death.
Amen. |
Mikeg
Member
Username: Mikeg
Post Number: 1615
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 10:34 am: | |
Gannon,
Re-read your posts in this thread and see if any of these Forum Rules might have been broken:
Entries that are abusive, off subject..... Posts that badger, needle or provoke others will be removed without notice or explanation.
If you want to piss and moan about how terrible your parents were, you can start your own thread. If you want to peddle your own religious views and argue with others about how their religion is flawed and evil, you can start your own thread. If you want to share your memories of attending a Catholic School, you can post them in this thread. |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 12777
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 12:39 pm: | |
Mikeg,
If you want to force me to follow rules, so be it. Good luck with that. Sorry for crashing the party.
You have just proven what kind of person you are...when unable to discuss things openly, you wave restrictions on speech and other basic freedoms of human expression, hiding behind convenient laws instead of engaging another mere human. Jesus had words about those who try to enforce laws and more laws without trying one whit to HELP those outside them gain understanding of HOW they might be able to learn to work within them. Read up on how He felt about the Pharisees and the word he used to describe them most. You seem to be a good candidate for poster-childing the term this morning!
I guess I'll have to copy all of my text here for later use, if you are going to complain to Lowell and AIW for my verbiage.
Damn shame you are afraid to investigate your own convictions...and learn and grow some. Perhaps my best memories of grade and high school added up to these conclusions, especially after I was sent into the world and began to experience more with an open mind and heart.
I just related a few things that you simply could've skipped over, but since you actually read and re-read my words and didn't get any illumination...then you may be too far gone to see any light whatsoever.
If you somehow caught that my parents were anything of the sort that you describe, then you didn't gain any reading comprehension from YOUR parochial school experience.
I said specifically that I am not against anyone's religious views as long as they are getting as close to God as they can, and actively pursue the same.
There is flaw and evil where-ever there are mere humans, and if the institution you choose to be a part of cannot root it out and actually cure the harm caused by it rather than ignore it and allow it to fester and rot and get worse...then since YOU continue to choose it and keep silent about the problems within, you are AS culpable as the ones who perpetrated the crimes against your brothers and sisters in the faith.
I am not badgering anyone in specific...but, I will badger those in general who do things opposed to the Spirit of God. If that makes me a rule-breaker, then I will accept gladly any punishment that arrives, as long as it is just and deserved and not merely from some simple misunderstanding or worse!
If Lowell chooses to ban me from the forum for my words here, I will gladly follow HIS recommendations. I will not voluntarily shut up because you are uncomfortable with my words, though. Sorry. You CAN simply not read them, many people skip over what I post.
Thanks for illuminating for me these rules I've been so obviously missing. I guess I'll have to reign in my exponential mind a bit and learn how to stay on topic for more than a moment.
They were never able to teach me that within my Catholic School memories, perhaps because it is not within my abilities.
Cheers and more,
John |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 12778
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 12:43 pm: | |
Sorry folks, for not letting Sister Barbara Ann win.
Sincerely, Lowell, if you'd like to erase my text distractions from this otherwise fun thread, please do so at your convenience.
I've made too much work for you, but it is beyond the 24-hour limit on most of the posts...and a few people might need to read the rest before you delete it.
Sincerely,
John |
Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon
Post Number: 12779
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 1:03 pm: | |
quote:Accepting personal responsibility for one's decisions is a practice that many people have a hard time with, regardless of who and where their "teachers" were. This concept was never on any of our final exams, but eventually it becomes clear to others whether or not we have learned this most important life lesson.
I just re-read every word of this thread, and realize that I didn't begin the trashing of those within the Catholic church...but I was one of the few to NOT continue to make jokes about it, lightening up the actual horrors served to innocent young people in school. I daresay, Mikeg, that YOU started the twisting of this thread.
I joked about MYSELF, and went far astray...but I was not the first one.
Doesn't make my distractions right, and I again apologize for offending anyone except Mikeg...because it seems like he really needs it.
Oh heck, I apologize to you, too Mikeg. I'll try much harder to not offend you in this thread in the future.
Thanks, humbled on a rainy Sunday. Cheers.
Lowell, I take back what I said about deleting anything.
They still count me as Catholic because I was baptized and confirmed, I would suggest highly that anyone connected to that institution please get me ex-communicated so my conscience can be clear. I no longer want to be counted with your faith...although you need the false statistical count of people just like me to prop up your dying institution.
Now THAT'S pestering... |
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