Discuss Detroit Archives - January 2008 I just found Jimmy Hoffa Previous Next
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 3079
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 9:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey, it was easy. I just went to the 1930 U.S. Census report and here he is!





Jimmy was 17 at the time and living with his widowed mother, Viola, and two siblings at 4727 Toledo, in southwest Detroit. I took a look at Google maps, and it would appear the house is still there. Anyway, Viola was paying fifty bucks a month to rent the house. The "R" to the right of the 50 shows there is a radio in the house (remember, this is 1930). Further off to the right, which I had to crop out, it shows Jimmy is a stock boy in a Department store.

Hey, anyone close by 4727 Toledo Street who can get a picture?
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Funaho
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Username: Funaho

Post Number: 46
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 10:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's not too far from me; I might be able to swing by there in a few days. However from looking at Google sat view it's hard to tell if it's really still there; the marker shows up in the middle of the street, and one side is a commercial building now, so if it's not on the other side of the street then it's probably gone.

Anyone happen to know if odd addresses are the north or south side of Toledo?
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Funaho
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Username: Funaho

Post Number: 47
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 10:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

After rereading your post now I'm curious where he worked; I wonder if used to work at the Kresge's on Vernor that was there even when I was a kid in the 70s.
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Detroitstar
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Username: Detroitstar

Post Number: 1102
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 12:20 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Based on his chosen career I would guess he was upset by the working conditions as a stock boy.
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Detroitstar
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Username: Detroitstar

Post Number: 1103
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 1:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Based on his chosen career I would guess he was upset by the working conditions as a stock boy.
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Gnome
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Username: Gnome

Post Number: 1152
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 5:59 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought he got his start at Kroger's.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J immy_Hoffa

quote:

Jimmy got a job at the Kroger Grocery and Baking Company, whose warehouses were located just a few blocks from his home. Lying to the foreman about his age, Hoffa began his job of unloading produce from railroad cars for 32 cents an hour.

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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 3080
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 12:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That wikipedia entry pretty much follows the script of the movie "Hoffa". Guess the movie was rather accurate.
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Johnlodge
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Username: Johnlodge

Post Number: 6475
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 12:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Leave it to Ray to find Jimmy Hoffa.
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Chris_rohn
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Username: Chris_rohn

Post Number: 436
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 1:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



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Club_boss
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Username: Club_boss

Post Number: 413
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 1:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a copy of the 1930 census as well, both sides of my family lived in Detroit on that day in 1930 when the census taker came knocking on their doors; granted my dad was only 3 years old but I find the document fascinating.

There are 32 columns (questions) for each person.
I think its very interesting, as the questions asked are very informative.

I had to look at my copy of the census, we are talking about column 7, there is only one person on the whole page that has an "R"

I had no idea that was even a question on the census until reading this.
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Jcole
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Username: Jcole

Post Number: 438
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 1:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"That wikipedia entry pretty much follows the script of the movie "Hoffa". Guess the movie was rather accurate"
Either that, or the Wikipedia poster saw the movie first.
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 3083
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 6:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Club_boss, I even found my 5xgreat grandfather on the 1790 census, the first one taken. Not much information on those reports from 1790 to 1840, though. They get more informative each decade since, though.

The 1940 census is due for release in 2012. That'll be the first one I can look at that I am on.
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Karenk
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Username: Karenk

Post Number: 65
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 6:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ray1939, are you into genealogy? Not many people know or care when the 1940 census comes out. I, for one, can't wait!
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Karenk
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Username: Karenk

Post Number: 66
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 6:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

p.s. Ray1936 - we always thought that Jimmy was cremated at Bagnasco's. That was always the rumor in my circle, which included Zerillis & Cammaratas...we were in our very early 20's what did we know...hummmm?
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Pffft
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Username: Pffft

Post Number: 1508
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 7:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So that arrow is pointing to the big apartment building?
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Bigb23
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Username: Bigb23

Post Number: 1416
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 7:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pffft - a little off thread, but I've always admired your username!
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 6442
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 4:57 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Incinerated in Hamtramck offa a Westside garbage hauler.
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Pffft
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Username: Pffft

Post Number: 1509
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 9:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Back atcha Bigb ...

My other question, to Ray: are all the 1930 census sites online, pay only?
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 3088
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 3:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pfft, there are two sources to obtain the census images, but both are pay sites. Ancestry.com and Heritage.com. However, many libraries have accounts with either or both, so I'd check there first. I don't know about the Detroit Public Library....can anyone check that out?

KarenK, yes, the genealogy bug bit me ten years ago. Addictive, isn't it? :-) Personally, I liked the rumor that Jimmy was under the goal posts in Noo Joisey.
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 3089
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 3:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I should add that most libraries also have the microfilm rolls of the census reports, but as anyone who has looked through rolls and rolls of microfilm, it's tedius and time-eating. Much easier on an indexed computer site!
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Soomka1
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Username: Soomka1

Post Number: 91
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 2:39 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jjaba heard the same story I did about Hoffa's "disposal". There was a particular waste disposal company that was taken over under strange circumstances in the late 60's early 70's by a certain family in our neighborhood. We have heard from a few different people that they put the incinerator to good use.
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Jrvass
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Username: Jrvass

Post Number: 660
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 11:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My aunt said they were rebuilding the S'fld fwy that night. She thinks he's under I-96 and M-39.

I lived a mile N. of the Fox restaurant where he was abducted in '75.

Hoffa was a stockboy at Kroger's. Jimmy "Clean Hands" was a portrayal of him in "Once Upon a Time in America".
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Mikem
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Username: Mikem

Post Number: 3628
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 3:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My 1940 directory has him living at 16154 Robson.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 6447
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 3:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jrvass, your story makes sense since some believe he was "processed" through a Westside house.

What did the FBI find on that Milford farm?
Now there's a boondoggle... (fill in the blanks.)

jjaba.
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 2306
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 8:32 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have the retainer letter dated 21 January 1964, signed by James R. Hoffa , then President of the Teamsters Union and Harry Burke,local Chattanooga attorney who defended Hoffa ( along with Berke's son) on the Jury tampering case in Chattanooga, Tennessee. The first trial resulted in a hung jury and on retrial, a conviction. The retainer was for $75,000.
My Sr. partner, James Haggerty was Hoffa's Detroit atty and he signed the retainer as "approved". The document is typed on Teamsters stationery. Mr. Haggerty arranged for the Burkes' representation. Another witness is the late Bill Bufalino,GP atty, listed as "Special Counsel".

Hoffa served about 5 years and was pardoned by President Nixon in 1971. Bobby Kennedy was Attorney General at the time, and was out to get Hoffa at all costs, and he did.

When I joined the law firm, I was told to be real careful when I filed my income tax return, because the firm was under suspicion during this litigation and the appeal that followed. More than once on returning to Detroit from Chattanooga, Mr. Haggerty's luggage was suspiciously "misplaced" for a day or so. When returned,it was apparent that his suitcase had been searched. Different/interesting times back then. Kennedy would have fit quite well in the KGB.
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 4793
Registered: 10-2003
Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 8:57 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Anyone happen to know if odd addresses are the north or south side of Toledo?"

Odd number addresses are on the westside are on the south sides of the streets; on the eastside they are norths sides. [Old Sears truck driver memory.] Chris_rohn's pic bears that out.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 12615
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 9:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Kennedy would have fit quite well in the KGB.



No, J.Edgar Hoover's FBI would have been the KGB equivalent...and you gotta wonder what history there was between the Kennedy's father and the Detroit folks connected to certain Italian families. He had that grudge since his BROTHER was president.

The mafia has always been one of the players in the huge power struggle in this country...implicated in most all of the assassinations in the 60s.

The Kennedy's danced with them, too. Often.


Nah, your analogy of Bobby being the KGB is just too simple, Rock. Almost apologetic for those quieter others in the game.


Cheers!
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Kid_dynamite
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Username: Kid_dynamite

Post Number: 537
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 10:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rock...are you Neil Rockind?
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 6453
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 12:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So you gotta guy name Kid_dynamite asking for The Rock's identity. So what does Kid know about Jimmie Hoffa's disappearance? Put the focus on Jimmie, ok. Rock ain't talkin'.

jjaba, wiseguy.
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 2310
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 4:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have never met Mr. Rockind, although he probably has a guilt complex as he appears to be the only criminal lawyer in town who has not been retained by Kwame. Or have I missed something?
And jjaba, old sock, the Winsome is due to hit the waves on May 15. However, with marine fuel about $5.75 a gallon, the_ rock might be spending more n time on the Forum and less time at the helm.
I look forward to a visit from you and a ride on the high seas. I would not have the gall to ask you to bring your Shell credit card along, although I do issue a friendly reminder that most of the local marinas take cash.
We should bring Gannon along as his post would indicate an intimate knowledge of some of my GP neighbors down in the Park and we might be able to tie in at some of those private slips down there if the weather gets a little iffy.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 6460
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 10:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Check it out, jjaba gets a lefthanded invite to ride on the Winsome on the Jimmie Hoffa thread, and is asked by a Grosse Pointe guy without socks to bring gas money. Let's go over this again.

jjaba, average guy on the Westside.
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 3102
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 10:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds like a boatjacking to me, Jjaba. Beware.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 6465
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 12:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ray1936, precisely. Let's don't take this great thread about Jimmie Hoffa and turn it into something about pleasure boating with Grosse Pointers who don't wear socks.

jjaba. (And Ray1936 knows, "let's don't" is perfect Westsider English.)
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 3104
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 12:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Let's don't" is not only perfect English, it's a severe declarative sentence. Translated, it means something like "Beware, there is extreme danger associated with your idea.....".

Never cared much for boats anyway, other than a rowboat to carry me to where the bass are lurking.
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The_rock
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Username: The_rock

Post Number: 2313
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 3:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry, jjaba. I just got my Mobil Oil dividend check. So leave your Shell credit card at home.
Let's don't worry about fuel.
Let's don't worry about where Jimmy is buried.
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 6466
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 3:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Holy Toledo! Can't somebody post a photo of one of those Hoffa residences? We know The Rock has a camera. jjaba would post one if he knew how.

jjaba, taking the bus so The Rock and his neighbors don't squeeze me even more.
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Reddog289
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Username: Reddog289

Post Number: 270
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 3:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i think he,s under my garage which could use a new floor anyway, my uncle took us to the spot in central mich where hoffa was "taken care of", my dad said "hell no" too far, Dad was into law enforcement, later i hear check under the Ren Cen. thats from a former Teamster. being in kindergarten when that happened i,ll have my whole life thinking about it.
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Reddog289
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Username: Reddog289

Post Number: 271
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 3:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i think he,s under my garage which could use a new floor anyway, my uncle took us to the spot in central mich where hoffa was "taken care of", my dad said "hell no" too far, Dad was into law enforcement, later i hear check under the Ren Cen. thats from a former Teamster. being in kindergarden when that happened i,ll have my whole life thinking about it.

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