  Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 11601 Registered: 10-2003 |
http://www.clickondetroit.com/ news/16131739/detail.html?rss= det&psp=news quote: I know that he doesn't represent all of Livonia or the vast majority but there are always claims that certain communitites (read minority communities) must denounce the actions of the few idiots or they are seen as endorsing them. I expect to hear from Livonia residents very soon or I will assume that they agree with these actions. **Said very tongue in cheek to make a point** | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 511 Registered: 11-2003 |
This comment is pretty ignorant. "I expect to hear from Livonia residents very soon or I will assume that they agree with these actions." | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 11602 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: You must have missed this statement: **Said very tongue in cheek to make a point** The point is that all too often on these boards there is an expectation that certain populations are obligated to speak out against anything done by people in that community. That is the point I was making and was specifically stated why it was tongue in cheek to make a point. | ||
Plymouthres Member Username: Plymouthres Post Number: 498 Registered: 02-2007 |
Jt1- There are freaks all over the world and not just in this country. You don't believe that Livonia has a particular propensity for this type of thing based on your assertion about this one guy and his beliefs, do you? I would hate to think that you would be guilty of the same narrow minded thinking as this fool. By the way, this guy, his belief or his type are not supported by even a minute amount of the citizens of Livonia or America for that matter. Finally, as a citizen of the United States, he is perfectly entitled by the protection of the First Amendment, to think, do and say as he pleases. Should we violate his rights just to make you happy? I think not. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 1200 Registered: 02-2006 |
quote: I did. He was charged. He pleaded guilty. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 2066 Registered: 05-2005 |
quote: likewise i expect to hear from detroit residents re: every stupid infinitesimally small personal act of bigotry directed towards caucasians, otherwise i will assume they agree on these actions. all 900,000 of them, er, us? wait, what?  | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 11603 Registered: 10-2003 |
Res - There is no way that I would assume that he represents people of Livonia, that is why I stated quote: The point is more to show the hypocrisy of how some people see the actions of a single person representative of certain communities but not others. So to summarize: AS I have stated, I do not believe he represents people of Livonia. I do not believe that people of Livonia need to denounce his actions (which is why I had the disclaimer stating it was tongue in cheek). The point is that we need to let all people stand on their own merits and ensure that we (the forum) don't allow certain populations to be judged based upon the actions of 1 or 2 people. Maybe my wording was not succinct enough but the point was nto about Livonia or the residents of Livonia but the hypocrisy of how it is often seen as acceptable to generalize entire populations and expect all of certain populations to speak out against a person that is 'perceived' to represent their community. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1243 Registered: 12-2006 |
The first amendment does not allow you to do what you please, nor does any amendment actually say that you can think what you please. In fact, that the first amendment allows you to say what you please is not an absolute, as has come down to us over the years in a number of court cases, the most famous of which was perhaps Oliver Wendell Holmes' statement that "The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic." | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 11604 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think gravity gets my point. | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 958 Registered: 05-2004 |
I remember seeing a kid running down the Cloverlawn Street (Detroit) in the 60's with eggs in his hand. I asked him what he was doing. He said," I'm going to egg that black families house down the block". They had just moved in and I guess he was going to show his disapproval. I was young then but thought it was a pretty stupid thing to do then. No doubt he got his mindset from his parents. While block busting and red zoning was popular in Detroit, some folks fought back in crude ways. Most moved after Coleman Young came to power. Whether said offender had personal experience with neighborhood change is not an excuse. Hate crimes can be against white or black. They cannot be tolerated if we want a just society. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 11606 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: I agree 100%. | ||
Chuckjav Member Username: Chuckjav Post Number: 532 Registered: 09-2007 |
Paulmcall.....I'm going off the Livonia path here; can you please tell us a little more about the blockbusting of your old Cloverlawn neighborhood - timetable of events perhaps? Everything I've read/heard is sketchy at-best. Maybe this would call for the start of a new thread? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 11608 Registered: 10-2003 |
I would think so since it would be an interesting thread and more worthy than being lost on one that I started just to stir up the pot a little. | ||
Plymouthres Member Username: Plymouthres Post Number: 499 Registered: 02-2007 |
Professorscott- I respectfully disagree with you on your opinion of the protection of nut cases like this dude was by the First Amendment. While I am certainly not a law scholar, I do understand basic written English. I also witness the First Amendment being stretched way beyond its originally written intent to fit and protect these types of belief systems and people all the time. To quote Holmes and that particular instance is like comparing apples to oranges as far as I am concerned. I would submit that he who shouts fire in the theater is potentially inflicting far more physical injury by inciting a riot than this simple hate monger could ever incite mentally. Jt1- I got your point, too! Paulmcall- I could not agree with your post enough. | ||
Gaz Member Username: Gaz Post Number: 175 Registered: 04-2008 |
Why would he write such a thing? It doesn't make any sense. | ||
Rel Member Username: Rel Post Number: 695 Registered: 02-2008 |
Enough of the bickering, fellas. Bottom line: He did something disgusting. Glad he was caught, and glad justice was served. I hope as restitution he has to make a gi-normous contribution to the NAACP or the UNCF and volunteer as a docent at the Charles H. Wright Museum of African American History Remind him of his own ignorance. | ||
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55 Post Number: 1633 Registered: 09-2005 |
I think JTL was aiming his comments to certain posters on DY who love to bellow, when some ethnic person commits an outrage, "Why isn't the ______ (fill in the blank) community condemning this action?" So far, not a peep of condemnation out of these self-righteous folks. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 2234 Registered: 12-2005 |
You are all missing the BIG point in this story. The police were called in this matter, they acted immediately, Gottler had his day in court, the court arrived at a reasonable verdict based on the knowns in the case and the matter is on it's way to bed, save for the media and the internet. | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 33 Registered: 04-2008 |
These a**holes have been distributing flyers in the area lately: (Caution: This website may make you want to vomit!) http://www.nsm88.org/articles/ nazi.html Sadly, headquartered in Detroit. If you see any of the men, women, or CHILDREN shown in the pictures, would you please tell them to "Go to hell" for me? Thanks. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6760 Registered: 08-2004 |
Jt1... the reason that the citizens of Livonia are not outraged at the moment is because with the nice weather right now, they're too busy enjoying the (residents of Detroit funded) Huron-Clinton Metro Parks... (Ducking for cover... ) | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 1201 Registered: 02-2006 |
Retroit, what does that have to do with this thread? | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 34 Registered: 04-2008 |
Sorry, I should have explained that the flyer was a warning that the white race is facing extinction and we all should fear people of other races. And that what happened in Livonia was not an isolated incident. And that racism, unfortunately is alive and well. And that we should all denounce it. | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 213 Registered: 03-2008 |
Good point Jt1. Why are Detroiters apologizing for what those few criminals and nuts do? More importantly, why is Detroit ridiculed for it? I think it might have to do more with history and politics. For years, Detroit didn't do what it should have, when it came to fighting crime and looking after it's residents' needs. That's really the only thing I can think of right now. That just seems like a big reason for the bad reputation, and negative views. | ||
Hpgrmln Member Username: Hpgrmln Post Number: 432 Registered: 06-2007 |
Livonia is constantly under scrutiny for allegedly being a hotbed of racists. Thats how many people view the city. This guy just further harmed relations. With stories like this making the news, its that much harder for the stigma to go away. It may not be a bad idea for Livonians to public denounce these things. Their image certaintly isnt getting repaired. |
