 
Detroitrise
Member
Username: Detroitrise
Post Number: 2036
Registered: 09-2007
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 6:29 pm: |    |
"Detroitrise... I think you got your info wrong on the Post Office. The main Post Office is and will remain in Detroit."
Possibly, but I'm sure I heard something about the Post Office relocating something to Pontiac. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 6761
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 6:46 pm: | |
Yeah, I don't remember exactly what functions were moved there either... but I do remember something about some Detroit area mail getting a Pontiac cancellation stamp on the mail. |
Spacemonkey
Member
Username: Spacemonkey
Post Number: 523
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 6:57 pm: | |
My guess is that Chrysler's days are indeed numbered. Cerebus will sell of each division, perhaps just for parts. |
Single_malt
Member
Username: Single_malt
Post Number: 44
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 7:01 pm: | |
Wasn't the Palace and CTC built within a few years of each other?? How did that happen in what was a small town? Look at all the development that surrounds CTC now, as a result. Auburn Hills tax base must have gone up dramatically within 8 years. Did they have the infrastructure?
Their reasoning aside, it seems like it would be pretty good for any city to get the CTC. Now how in the name of Hades did Auburn Hills get the Palace and CTC? I mean, there wasn't much there in the 80's was there?? The council of Auburn Hills must have been pretty creative.
I've always wondered this, hence my questions. I'm glad this post was made. Thanks! |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 5988
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 7:14 pm: | |
Why Auburn Hills? The same reason why a lot of companies relocated or came from abroad to the suburbs: cheap land and suburbs "giving away the store" in incentives, kind of like what's happening in central cities, today. |
Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit
Post Number: 215
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 8:15 pm: | |
I really think the Pistons will consider downtown in the future. However, since The Palace has been recently renovated, it is as good as new to them. So, it really doesn't matter. It definitely would not be in the near and foreseeable future. I've decided anything outside of that isn't even worth thinking about.
We have to many other things to worry about around here right now. It just isn't the time to be thinking about courting The Pistons and Chrysler. |
Thecarl
Member
Username: Thecarl
Post Number: 1254
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 9:58 pm: | |
sean_of_detroit,
downtown detroit is enemy #1 for the pistons' management and palace entertainment. they are happy to have auburn hills as the focus between the contracting city of detroit, as population moves down the i75 corridor from saginaw and flint.
downtown detroit as an entertainment venue, and destination city, is a threat to their business, and their efforts to oppose it are on the record. |
Border5150
Member
Username: Border5150
Post Number: 204
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 10:07 pm: | |
It seems that EVERY time i drive by the Chrysler headquarters, they are always expanding the place. Is this still the case? (Been out of state the last few years..) |
Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit
Post Number: 221
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 10:37 pm: | |
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I have to agree.
Wishful thinking on that one I guess.  |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 5991
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 11:00 pm: | |
I can't think of any recent expansions, but the thing is huge at 4.4 million square feet. That's not much smaller than the entire Renaissance Center Complex at 5.5 million square feet.
Some history on the Headquarters & Technology Center, the original low-rise portion (the Technology Center) was dedicated in 1991 (having been under construction since 1986). The SmithGroup-designed tower section (headquarters) was added in 1996.
I'm not sure of all of the expansions after that date. I hear that it's getting pretty empty, though. I can't see how they've been able to sustain such a headquarters for even this long. They've got more space than GM has in the RenCen, and Ford in its headquarters despite being a significantly smaller company. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 768
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 11:23 pm: | |
CTC is larger than would be expected from a company of this size because so much is concentrated in it. GM has Ren Cen AND Warren Tech Center; Ford has the Glass House AND the engineering centers in Dearborn & Allen Park. CTC has it all. Is there anything significant aside from MOPAR not located at CTC? |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 5992
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 12:47 am: | |
Oops. My bad. Very good point. Most every department from Chrysler is at the headquarters. It really is the most centralized of the three. |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 501
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 2:12 am: | |
"Auburn Hills tax base must have gone up dramatically within 8 years. Did they have the infrastructure?"
AH has a good size tax base for a city its size. But for years, and this still may be the case, most of the growth in that tax base has been captured for use within the TIF district that was established over the Chrysler property and most of the surrounding areas. See:
http://www.oakgov.com/peds/ass ets/docs/luz_docs/devmap_tifa_ 02.pdf
That means that those tax dollars that would have otherwise gone to the city and other taxing authorities have largely been diverted to pay for projects within the TIF district. One can argue the relative merits of such an approach. But it's been one of the way that the city was able to finance the infrastructure that exists within the area (along with lots of dollars from the state for the new freeway interchanges at 75 and M-59). |
Otter
Member
Username: Otter
Post Number: 146
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 7:52 am: | |
Border,
The CTC has not been expanded since the tower was finished.
Craig,
There is also the engineering center on Plymouth Rd. between Greenfield and Schaefer, usually referred to as PROC or Jeep/truck. |
Spacemonkey
Member
Username: Spacemonkey
Post Number: 529
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 7:57 am: | |
I can picture some other investment group like Cerebus buy the Jeep brand business from Cerebus. Then some other investment group buy Dodge and so on. These groups will be in other parts of the country and move the business there. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 772
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 8:56 am: | |
Yes, I forgot about Plymouth road. Still, Chrysler seems to be far more concentrated than the others: hence, the big building.
But, Otter, I recall that the dynamometer (how in the hell do you spell that?) lab was built on the south side of CTC in the late 90s/early '00. |
Jerome81
Member
Username: Jerome81
Post Number: 1689
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 4:56 pm: | |
What is happening with the Jeep/Truck building?
What was that originally?
Cool building. |
Bearinabox
Member
Username: Bearinabox
Post Number: 627
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 5:03 pm: | |
Chrysler inherited it from AMC, which inherited it from Kelvinator. quote: * Plymouth Road Office Center located at 14250 Plymouth Road in Detroit, was built in 1926-27 by the Electric Refrigeration Corporation (Kelvinator). The building was designed by Amedeo Leoni; industrial layout by Wallace McKenzie, and tower enclosure and industrial units by William E. Kapp, of SHG. The original 600,000 square foot three-story plant facility and four-story administration building (with distinctive tower -- the NK logo has since been removed) was rebadged and home to Nash-Kelvinator from 1937-1954, and AMC World Headquarters from 1954-1987.
*
o In the late 1940s, it was known as the Kelvinator Factory and General Administration Building, and produced refrigerators, electric ranges, and commercial refrigeration. Also airplane propellers were produced for the Defense Department during World War II.
o During World War II, the Defense Department contracted with Nash-Kelvinator to produce 900 R-6 helicopters. As part of that contract, a 4.5-acre (1.8 ha) site north of the factory was used as the smallest airport in the world, as a testing facility. Nash-Kelvinator produced about fifty R-6s a month during the war, and when the contract was terminated at the end of the war, only 262 helicopters had actually been completed. An additional twenty were left in various stages of completion on the assembly line.
o Today, the Plymouth Road Office Center is home to the new Chrysler organization's Jeep and (Dodge) Truck Engineering, or JTE. Engineering of Jeep and Dodge Truck (BoF or Body on Frame) platforms is performed there, as well as testing facilities and labs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A merican_Motors |
Otter
Member
Username: Otter
Post Number: 147
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 5:11 pm: | |
Yes, you're right on that - Chrysler is far more centralized than Ford and GM. Both are true multinationals, whereas Chrysler sells little product outside of the NAFTA zone (though they're upiing it gradually) and does no engineering, design or manufacturing outside of the NAFTA zone.
You may be right on the dyno lab - I don't know. You spelled it correctly, BTW.
I have been told that a deal was reached with Nissan to sell PROC to them, but that is not official and I don't know if it's really true.
Chrysler acquired that facility when it bought AMC in 1987 - it was AMC's HQ before then. Originally it was the Nash-Kelvinator building - AMC was formed in the mid 1950s from the merger of Nash-Kelvinator and Hudson. |
56packman
Member
Username: 56packman
Post Number: 2236
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 5:57 pm: | |
AMC moved their headquarters to the American Center in Southfield in the late 60s-early 70s, leaving the Plymouth road Kelvinator building as their "tech center" and parts depot. |
Otter
Member
Username: Otter
Post Number: 148
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 6:57 pm: | |
Thanks, Packman - I didn't know that. It sort of rings a bell now that you mention it.
What happened when Packard bought Studebaker? Did everything in South Bend get shut down? |
56packman
Member
Username: 56packman
Post Number: 2239
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 7:27 pm: | |
Otter--No, quite the opposite. Packard, unlike corporate leaders of today pretty much left everything intact in South Bend, and against most all business logic (of today) operated two executive staffs, two engineering departments, two purchasing departments, etc. --there was no huge bloodletting after the merger. Studebaker was an amazingly inefficient operation, saddled with a union workforce who got what they wanted, when they wanted it and Studebaker spent Packard dry (Studebaker would have collapsed of their own weight in the late 50s were it not for the Packard acquisition) and things on East Grand Boulevard were not all that well--new president Nance was trying to make up for 20 years of deferred spending in modernization, Packard lost most of its vital Jet engine defense work to GE and GM (who had better lobbyists), the 1955 models now being built in the former Briggs body Conner plant were troubled with faults due to a new engine (modern OHV-V8), updated transmission, new chassis and new re-skinned body. There was no room in the plant for a re-work line and many 1955 buyers were upset with the poor quality of the early '55 cars. The '56 cars were much. much better, very good, in fact but '56 was a bad year for everyone, and terrible for Packard. In the spring of '56 Packard was out of money, the banks and insurance companies it had borrowed from in the past turned a cold shoulder (they still weren't totally repaid for loans from '53) and Packard went looking for a buyer. The Eisenhower administration didn't want S-P to go under during an election year, and suggested Curtis-Wright buy S-P, C-W was fat with cold war military contracts and wanted a tax write off and Packard's Aerospace division and Studebaker's defense work. The executives who ran C-W had little patience for the automobile business, and being mainly engineers with MBAs had absolutely no use for an upper series car like Packard.
They shut everything in Detroit down, sold off all of the properties and equipment and sent a few people to South Bend. The '57 and '58 "Packabakers" were the last vehicles to bear the Packard name, a less than great way to come to the end.
The purchase of Studebaker was an act of desperation, originally George Mason of Nash (on Plymouth road, hence we are back on thread) wanted to build a fourth major automotive "combine", he envisioned the merger of Packard, Hudson, Nash and Studebaker into what he wanted to call "American Motors"
He managed to merge Hudson and Nash then died, his successor George Romney wanted no part of the merger, and time has proven his decision to be right. Romney successfully combined Hudson and Nash into one company without redundant departments and made good product decisions, at least in the early years.
Try to get a copy of "the fall of he Packard motor car company" by James Neal, a great book with management lessons that are still true today. |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 1195
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 8:37 pm: | |
Anyone have photos of the Chrysler HQ in Highland Park? I don't remember it/know where it is if it's still standing. |
Jerome81
Member
Username: Jerome81
Post Number: 1690
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 03, 2008 - 11:38 pm: | |
Its not still standing.... |
Otter
Member
Username: Otter
Post Number: 149
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 12:45 am: | |
Packman,
Thanks for the informative post. I am pretty good with american automotive history but you're better than I am. I sort of answered my own question after I asked it when I remembered that Studebakers were built at South Bend right up the the last Larks and Avantis in 1964 or so. I remember reading about how poorly Studebaker was run, I think in connection with stories about the time that Virgil Exner spent there and also when Bob Bourke's team led the design of the '53s.
A couple of years ago when a friend from out of town was visiting we went up to take a look at the remnants of the Packard proving grounds in Utica.
I'll note the book.... |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 773
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 1:27 am: | |
Otter - re: manufacturing outside of NAFTA... Do you know what remains of manufacturing in Brazil (cannot recall the name of the plant, but do recall a line producing Dakotas) and then the Graz, Austria minivan plants? Also, I recall hearing something about product badged as one of the brands planned for manufacture in China... |
Gnome
Member
Username: Gnome
Post Number: 1158
Registered: 08-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 7:10 am: | |
I think Jeep has been building in China since the 1980's. |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 1197
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 11:32 am: | |
Thought Jeep's plant was in Toledo. |
Otter
Member
Username: Otter
Post Number: 152
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 11:58 am: | |
Craig,
you caught me on a couple of big space-outs there!
Yes, Chrysler still does produce vehicles in Graz. Minicanvs have been built there for a while, though my recent memory from DCX tells me that the RT minivans (the new ones) are all built in St. Louis and Ontario, with EU vehicles exported from there. 300s are still built there, though I believe that will be ending soon.
And.....Neons were and Grand Cherokees are built (in CKD form, I think) in Venezuela for the local market and also export to other parts of Latin America. I don't remember whether PM/MK is exported from the US or is built where the Neons were.
Chrysler hasn't built any of its US-designed products in Brazil that I can ever remember (though my memmory is old-mannish, as you can see). Dakotas? no.
Older (RS) minivans are being built in China, and 300s are or will be soon, along with the Sebring eventually. And, as Gnome mentioned, Cherokees ahev been built there for ages. I have always thought of China as somewhat distinct, since assembly operations there are joint partnerships with Chinese companies.
Complete memory>me! |
56packman
Member
Username: 56packman
Post Number: 2241
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 12:48 pm: | |
Here is a shot of the former Chrysler HQ building in Highland Park, the big guys were on the 5th floor here. From the WSU virtual Motor City collection.
|
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 5994
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 8:39 pm: | |
What street was it on? I'm trying to place it, myself, within the city. |
Mikem
Member
Username: Mikem
Post Number: 3630
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 9:16 pm: | |
Oakland. |
Hockey_guy
Member
Username: Hockey_guy
Post Number: 37
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 9:46 pm: | |
Just imagine if Chrysler, Ford, had their HQ in Downtown Detroit today, that'd be awesome! |
Digitalvision
Member
Username: Digitalvision
Post Number: 794
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 04, 2008 - 10:02 pm: | |
I think there is a lesson to be learned here.
Chrysler "promises" to stay = leaves in a few years
My prediction: Comerica "promises" to stay = leaves in a few years (they won't vanish, but I don't believe that a couple hundred workers will be all that leave, I think it'll be the whole command and control and all that will be left is a regional office).
I just don't believe promises and PR. I know too well how they're made :-) |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 774
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 9:20 am: | |
Hey Otter - my old VIN docs are buried, but I remember working with diesel-powered Grand Cherokees in the German market... thought these might have been Graz babies. (I remember a "K" in VIN position 11...).
CKD = "kit?" If so, then I concur: Neons assembled in kit form to satisfy 'local content' requirements. In addition to Venezuela I recall kits going to Thailand and somewhere else in Asia.
Again, if I could find my old documentation I could name the facility in Brazil that's just beyond my mental reach. I recall that this plant got a long cold look during the big turnaround plan of early '01. (Also, a joint engine venture down there with BMW). |
Spacemonkey
Member
Username: Spacemonkey
Post Number: 532
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 9:28 am: | |
HEMI engines are made (forged) in Mexico and assembled in Canada. |
Otter
Member
Username: Otter
Post Number: 154
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 2:15 pm: | |
Craig,
Yes, a kit in some form. But I don't remember what form. I seem to recall that a substantial amount of assembly is done there (I can't reember where the plant is, either - Valencia, maybe), however. I don't have any VIN code info handy. US-built grand Cherokees are WKs, but I don't remember what the BUX ones are. grand Cherokees and 300s both get the same diesel, a 3.0L V6 from Mercedes, and a Mercedes 5-speed automatic to go with it. It is a really nice powertrain, especially in the 300. |
Hpgrmln
Member
Username: Hpgrmln
Post Number: 439
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 7:01 pm: | |
I asked this question today to a Chrysler retiree. He seems to recall Auburn Hills giving Chrysler a big tax break. This, in addition to the fact that they were able to get MORE land for LESS money played a role in their moving to AH. |
Otter
Member
Username: Otter
Post Number: 155
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 11:25 pm: | |
By the way, for those who are curious about whatever, allpar.com is the authoritative source for any infromation CHrysler-related. |
56packman
Member
Username: 56packman
Post Number: 2245
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Monday, May 05, 2008 - 11:55 pm: | |
because they say so.
They are right a lot of the time.
sometimes they aren't |
Otter
Member
Username: Otter
Post Number: 156
Registered: 12-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 8:29 am: | |
I'll take your word for it - I do find the site very interesting and it tells me a lot of stuff I don't know. I haven't seen a better site for Chrysler-related stuff out there (any suggestions?) Is there a feedback mechanism to correct bad info? |
Jman
Member
Username: Jman
Post Number: 166
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 8:59 am: | |
www.moparts.com |
Arc312
Member
Username: Arc312
Post Number: 56
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 3:07 pm: | |
"Yes, you're right on that - Chrysler is far more centralized than Ford and GM. Both are true multinationals, whereas Chrysler sells little product outside of the NAFTA zone (though they're upiing it gradually) and does no engineering, design or manufacturing outside of the NAFTA zone."
I remember when I did my summer abroad in Madrid (May-July 2006) I would see Jeeps on the road. There was a dealership a couple of blocks from my homestay with Dodge Caravans priced at $45,000 US. That always made me laugh... |
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