  Roadmaster49 Member Username: Roadmaster49 Post Number: 28 Registered: 01-2008 |
I've read a lot of automotive history, especially Ford Family based. Even here in Des Moines, Iowa, the old money drops off the map after awhile, and we end up asking "What ever happened to...?" What about Detroit old Ford, Chrysler and GM families? I know about William Clay Ford, and we know Iacocca is in the news from time to time, and I think he lives in California. Anybody heard anything about old Ford, GM and Chrysler family members? Do they just take their millions and drop off the face of the earth, living quietly their days out? What ever happened to HF II's daughters and son Edsel? What has Bill Ford been doing since getting the boot from Ford? | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 4188 Registered: 06-2004 |
The Fords are around and active in the community. Bill Ford Jr. did not 'get the boot' (sheesh), just stepped over to another position. Manoogians (Masco) are still around. Iacocca was an employee, he was not an founding family member or early major figure. don't know about Dodges (seems like they died out), Buicks, Olds, Lelands, Chryslers, Chevrolets, or Durants [I suppose Pontiac and Cadillac have some descendants around, too :~) ] | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 1159 Registered: 08-2007 |
the Olds family is still active in Lansing, but the last name is Anderson. Ransom and wife only had one son, Ralph, who died in infancy. Daughter Gladys married a guy named Bruce Anderson and the Anderson's are very active in Lansing and Michigan State causes. Oh, Olds was fired from his company in 1901 and it was bought by GM in 1908 so the Olds connection to Oldsmobile never exisited ... even for Ransom. Ransom made his dough with REO motors, Altas Screw works and another dozen companies he owned. He also made a town in Florida, OldsMar. True, you can look it up. | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 2834 Registered: 10-2003 |
Roadmaster49: This link to a Ford Forums webpage provides the full details of the Ford Family generations and what the kids are doing today, as of a couple years back in a Detroit News feature story. http://www.fordforums.com/f349 /ford-family-keeps-dynasty-ali ve-through-five-generations-39 450/ | ||
Roadmaster49 Member Username: Roadmaster49 Post Number: 29 Registered: 01-2008 |
Thanks Kathleen. I'm not only interested in direct decendents, but for instance, harley Earl at GM, Ed Cole, the Knudsens (William and Bunkie) but yes, the Fords were in many ways the Royal Family of the greater Detroit auto kingdom back in the day. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 5367 Registered: 10-2003 |
Dodge heirs have moved on to Arizona and NYC...maybe still in Palm Beach. Alfred Sloan never had kids...Fisher family is still here in GP and B-ham and also own a # of dealerships near Toledo. One of the Fisher kids just had a big write up for prep baseball in the Freep. Not sure about Chapin family. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 2240 Registered: 12-2005 |
Bill Chapin lives in Grosse Pointe and is active in public relations work, including the Motor Cities Heritage area | ||
Flyingj Member Username: Flyingj Post Number: 178 Registered: 08-2006 |
Patrick, you're not confusing Dodge Brothers from out here with Phelps-Dodge mining family out in 'zona?-they aren't related. I knew a guy(who lived in the Leland) that hung out with Dodge descendants upstate-maybe 'round Mackinac? As I recall Sloan never had kids so he started his foundation-teaming up with GM's tech guru(& Cheez Wiz inventor)Charles Kettering to build the Sloan-Kettering cancer foundation...in New York. Supposedly Walter P. put the Chrysler building in New York so he could have his son run it & not bother him in Detroit. One of these days I'm going to stop @ the Chrysler Farm in Kansas-the guy was truly self-made. There's the 100 Year Rule on the stockmarket where very few of the companies listed in 1789 were around in 1889 to 1989, their kids get spoiled pretty much. I had a friend out here who was an "heiress" to the Marmon Auto co(they built the 1st car to win the Indy 500, but otherwise made luxury sedans in Indianapolis) the main co. went down in the Depression but there was enough money left for her grandfather to travel around with, so he did. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6766 Registered: 08-2004 |
Bill Ford Jr. is still Chairman of the Board at Ford. He just relinquished his CEO position. Lilpup... what was the Manoogian connection to Detroit's automotive history? Was or is Masco Corp. a supplier? (I know they do household fixtures, etc.) | ||
Blueidone Member Username: Blueidone Post Number: 218 Registered: 03-2007 |
If memory serves me well (from back in the day when I was an Admin Asst at a an auto parts sales rep office), Masco is a big automotive supplier. I think it was something like castings or engine blocks...I can't remember...but they were pretty big in the industry. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 6768 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thanks for the info Blueidone... wasn't aware of that. I usually think of the as making faucets. | ||
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55 Post Number: 1641 Registered: 09-2005 |
What about the Stroh family, and the Hudson's? | ||
Blueidone Member Username: Blueidone Post Number: 220 Registered: 03-2007 |
YW Gistok...having said that...you can't always trust my memory :-) | ||
Everydayislikesunday Member Username: Everydayislikesunday Post Number: 367 Registered: 12-2004 |
The Stroh family is still in the area. John Stroh and Vivian Day are major donors to the DIA, and other area cultural institutions. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 5368 Registered: 10-2003 |
Flyingj, Richard Wilson lives in AZ (adopted son of (Matilda Wilson). David Elgin Dodge lives in AZ and teaches at Taliesin West. he is the son of Horace Jr. | ||
Flyingj Member Username: Flyingj Post Number: 180 Registered: 08-2006 |
Patrick, oh okay-I figured there were too many Dodge Brothers for them to die out so quickly...Taliesin West, eh? My folks used to live in Tucson(I scored an inscribed 1st edition of "My Life With General Motors" @ a bookstore there). My folks & their friends would run into a lot of trust funders, mobsters-& Paul McCartney. Never saw a drunken Supreme, though | ||
Xd_brklyn Member Username: Xd_brklyn Post Number: 397 Registered: 10-2003 |
David E. Dodge built a FLW-inspired home on the grounds of Taliesin West. It was on the northern end of the property behind the main building and past all the student sheds. Don't know if the tours will take you there though. Saw the place in mid-construction when I was encamped there around '98. The significant feature of his home was a single I-beam that stretched like an eyelid over most of the front facade. Am almost sure he designed it himself. Would be curious to see it today. | ||
Mozeewink Member Username: Mozeewink Post Number: 69 Registered: 03-2008 |
I went to high school in Grosse Pointe (1990s) with a Fisher and a Dodge... | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 4190 Registered: 06-2004 |
"too many Dodge Brothers for them to die out so quickly" ??? There were only two, John and Horace, and both died in 1920. But yes, looking at the NY Times article about the end of Rose Terrace, there were still descendants, some local and some not. | ||
Ro_resident Member Username: Ro_resident Post Number: 313 Registered: 11-2003 |
Ed Cole's son David heads the Center for Automotive Research out of Ann Arbor. He's one of the media's go-to guys whenever there's something happening in the auto industry. His organization also puts on the annual Management Briefing Seminar in Traverse City each August. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 3095 Registered: 01-2005 |
Here's the image of the 1920 census showing the Horace Dodge family. Their address was 4528 E. Jefferson, Grosse Pointe.  Shows his wife, Anna T., and children, Horace Jr., and Delphine. I seem to recall that a boat of the family was later named the Delphine, but can't recall the details. Also, I seem to recall that Horace Jr. died under rather mysterious circumstances after being arrested in Detroit. Anyone remember that story? | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 5370 Registered: 10-2003 |
Actually, that was John Duval Dodge. I think he died in a police station after falling back and craking open his head. The story is murky. Something about an affair with a friend's wife. Horace jr. died later. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 3096 Registered: 01-2005 |
Ah. And here's his brother, John F. Dodge, living in Detroit at 50 W. Boston Blvd.  They sure had a lot of servants, but what is money for? | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 5371 Registered: 10-2003 |
A lot of it had to do with John Dodge being new money. I think that he feet he had to show off what he had and stuff it down the throats of Detroit's older money. they hated him and he hated them back. They would not allow him into their clubs, so he would buy the club for his mansion lol...or was that Horace? You have to remember that all these old money auto baron heirs in GP...well, their ancestors were considered new money at one time. | ||
Jcole Member Username: Jcole Post Number: 458 Registered: 04-2005 |
One of John Dodge's sons died in a weird, mysterious "accident" on Manatoulin Island when he was 21. Here's a link for anyone interested http://www.mynorth.com/My-Nort h/June-2007/The-Strange-Death- of-Danny-Dodge/ | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 3097 Registered: 01-2005 |
That might have been what I was thinking of, Jc. Good story. Thx for the link. | ||
Jcole Member Username: Jcole Post Number: 459 Registered: 04-2005 |
I first heard the story when I was up at Tobermory a few years ago, and it struck me. | ||
Roadmaster49 Member Username: Roadmaster49 Post Number: 30 Registered: 01-2008 |
Interesting stuff. Makes one appreciate just how special the invention and proliferation of the automobile industry was, to the history of Detroit and America. It was unique specific place in time that won't be repeated. In 50 more years, who will truly appreciate the Fords, Dodges, Sloans, etc. Sloan not having any kids. The Fishers still in the area. Too bad there couldn't be a forum with all these 3rd generation kids, they were there when history was being made. I'd love to be able to interview some of them, my questions wouldn't be about gossip or such, but would try to glean as much as I could about motive, true interests (behind the scenes) and other tidbits. | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 630 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: quote:Am I reading this correctly? There were two Dodge brothers named John? | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 2242 Registered: 12-2005 |
Read "The Dodge Dynasty" by Caroline Latham and David Agresta ISBN 0-15-125320-X. Very interesting. John and Horace were smart, hardworking, hard drinking guys who made it big. Their descendents had no appreciation of the work it took to get that money and all were poster children for rich twit kids. The amount of money they squandered over the fifty years following John and Horace's deaths is astounding. Horace Jr. lived his whole life banking n his mother's passing and his inheritance of her vast wealth. He was useless to DB and later Chrysler, bounced around jobs where he would do little damage. The one thing he did well was boat racing. He died in 1963 at age 63. His mother, Anna Thompson Dodge died in 1970 at age 98. Bad plan, Horace jr. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 4193 Registered: 06-2004 |
John Duval was John F.'s son from his first marriage. He was already out of his father's house by the time the census posted above was taken. | ||
Bearinabox Member Username: Bearinabox Post Number: 631 Registered: 04-2006 |
Oh, I see. Ray1936 was referring to his previous post, not to the post Patrick made between the two. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 3098 Registered: 01-2005 |
You got it, Bear. Patrick slipped one in on me. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 1379 Registered: 11-2003 |
Descendants of Billy Durant, who are also related to Gov. Henry Crapo, still live in Flint or vicinity. They have names such as Thompson and Willson, and have contributed heavily over the decades to Flint. Frances Willson Thompson's gift made it possible for UM-Flint to build a new library in the '90s. The GM Building should have been renamed after Durant (like it originally was supposed to be) instead of getting the name Cadillac Place. Cadillac has enough stuff named after him, but most people these days have no idea who Durant was. (Message edited by Burnsie on May 05, 2008) | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 2244 Registered: 12-2005 |
Burnsie--The big "D" over the doors at the GM building stood for Durant, by the time the building was completed he was ousted for the second and final time at GM, Alfred Sloan was firmly in charge. Legend has it that young executive recruits were taken outside that door at one point of their training and asked "what does that D stand for" most had no clue at all. At that point they were told that it stood for Durant, the founder, he got out of line, and was ousted, and if you get out of line................. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 1380 Registered: 11-2003 |
56packman-- I knew what the D carved in various places stood for, as well as about how Durant was ousted (thanks for filling everybody in, though), but I didn't know the story about the young execs getting that talk. Can't remember where I read it, but Durant picked out the location for the building by walking up and down the sidewalk a few times, then pointing his arm or walking cane at the site. In Flint, there is Durant-Turri-Mott School, a very minor street just outside the city limits named after him, and the long-abandoned Durant hotel. There is a Durant Park in Lansing. | ||
Hojnacki Member Username: Hojnacki Post Number: 1 Registered: 06-2008 |
Yes the Dodge heirs are still around in the area. Several are still in the Grosse Pointe area. On labor day 2007 I met one the Dodge heirs. The Hamtramck Historical Society was having a dedication ceremony for the addition of a historical plaque near the area where Dodge Main once stood. The plaque is in Veterans Memorial Park where Col. Hamtramck is buried. While there, I met Mr. Robert Petz Jr. great grandson of Horace Dodge Sr. He was in the crowd standing next to us. Mr. Petz was there with the Dodge Bros car club with his antique Dodge. We spoke with him and talked about his great grandmothers home Rose Terrace. He told us after its demolition he couldn't drive past the property for 5 years. You could see while speaking to him he was a high class gentleman well spoken and polite. He asked if we had been to the mausoleum at Woodlawn Cemetery which we had visited the week prior and mentioned the box of cremated remains that are inside and said his family isn't even sure who it is. One of the books explains the ashes are of the brother’s sister who died in California in the 1930s or 40s, but who really knows. I mentioned I have a clock from his grandmother’s estate, and he remembered the Christies auction it came from in 1971. Many of Walter Chrysler's heirs attended the Rose Terrace auction. About 3 years ago, he and his family were invited to Monaco for the launching of the S.S Delphine, the Dodge yacht which has been restored and can be chartered for about $50k a day. I recall in 2006 Hour Detroit Magazine had an article about a black tie party for all of the automobile pioneers descendants. I seen Mr. Petz in a photo along with several of the Fishers and he very much resembled a Dodge! If you go to GPHISTORICAL.ORG you will see he is a member of the Grosse Pointe Historical Society. Mr Petz mother was Delphine Dodge Petz, who was one of Horace Dodge Jr's daughters. Horace had three sons and two daughters. Mrs Delphine Petz passed away two years ago she was 84, it was in the Grosse Pointe News. After his military service Horace Dodge III lived in California and was hired as an engineer for General Electric. Horace III died in 1996 at age 73. In his later years he was a philanthropist. He had a family of his own as well. Horace Jr’s sister Delphine, one of her two daughters Yvonee Baker Ranger lived in Horace Jr's mansion in GP next to Rose Terrace until she sold it in 1985 to a developer and it was demolished. The week prior to its demolition the public could take tours through the house although everything of value was gone. Her husband is said to have warehouses full of things that belonged to Horace Jr including cars, furniture and pieces of his house. David Dodge is an architect in AZ who has been working for F.L Wrights firm since at least the 60s. Around 1989 he donated $25,000 towards the renovation of Orchestra Hall. Gregg Sherwood (Dora) Horace Jr's widow is once again Mrs. Horace Dodge Jr. She lives in Palm Beach, their son John is also there I believe. Her second husband Daniel Moran shot himself to death in 1978 after a federal investigation in which she was eventually indicted for embezzlement. The books don't tell this. I read a federal court document explaining everything. Gregg(Dora is her real name) and Daniel looted her sons trust fund, Look for a documentary on A&E about Palm Beach (2000) and I seen her in the interview. You can buy it on Amazon.com, just search "Palm Beach A&E". After she received her settlement from Jr's mother, she bought properties left and right including Dunnellen Hall in the 1960s. Leona Helmsley lived there beginning in the 1980s and bought it for $11 million back then plus she put millions in it worth of improvements. Now its for sale for $125 million dollars. John Dodges descendants are throughout the country, many are in New York. One of his great grandsons is a lawyer in New York. His name is Manuel H Quintana. Quintana's other great grandfather was the prime minister of Argentina in the early 1900s. Quintana's mother was Edith Wesson Seyburn Quintana, she was the daughter of Winifred Dodge Seyburn and Wesson Seyburn, who was a wealthy Grosse Pointer. Winifred was one of John Dodges daughters. Until her death, Edith was still active with the Detroit Symphony Orchestra. Edith died in March 2006. She was living in Norwich, NY. I read a New York Times article about Quintan's wedding which was in 1982-83 and explained who his great grandfathers were, it also mentioned Edith. As for one of the Ford's, Charolette, she is probably in New York. She owned property in the Hamptons for sometime. A few years back, Howard stern bought a House for $20 mil next to her former estate. If you want to see some memorials I made up for some of the Dodges, visit findagrave.com and search, Anna Dodge 1871-1970 | ||
Craig Member Username: Craig Post Number: 839 Registered: 02-2007 |
^That is one solid block of text. Ruth Mott, widow to Charles Stewart, died in Flint within the past ten years. |
