  Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 819 Registered: 11-2003 |
The bill overwhelmingly passed the Senate... http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20080508/NEWS06/ 80508062 Seeing that so much of downtown's economy is based off of entertainment, how will the public smoking ban - right now to include restaurants, bars, and in one version bans smoking at Casinos - help or hurt Detroit? I also think this is another step toward the eventuality that smoking will become illegal, much like marijuana... that's the undercurrent I keep hearing. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 2009 Registered: 03-2006 |
boooo- government shouldn't be able to tell us what to do. There is no real proof of second hand smoke causing significant damage. This is the beginning of a long slippery slope and i'm not a smoker | ||
Awfavre Member Username: Awfavre Post Number: 245 Registered: 08-2005 |
There are many studies showing a slight drop off in business initially (the smokers stop going). But then it rebounds & reaches higher levels than before the ban (the smokers come back, as do the non-smokers like me who refused to go in the first place). I have friends who cannot, for health reasons, frequent certain establishments allowing smoking. I refuse to visit many microbreweries & bars/restaurants due to the excessive smoke. Those people will begin frequenting establishments as soon as a ban goes into place – as will I. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 670 Registered: 12-2006 |
Good. As non-smoker I hate going to to many bars because of the fact they are so smoky. | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 522 Registered: 11-2003 |
No affect in the long term. People will adjust and it will be an non-issue. If world class cities around the world can do it, I am sure we can. | ||
Chuckjav Member Username: Chuckjav Post Number: 539 Registered: 09-2007 |
Preface: I am no fan of the folks who continually tell us what we can and cannot do; matter of fact - I worked eight years for one of the "evil" tobacco corporations. That said....... You will come to love the smoking ban (in public places). We've had the law on the books in Ohio for more than a few years; it has been great - restaurants and gas stations reek no longer. So....smoke 'em if ya' got 'em - while you can. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3081 Registered: 04-2006 |
None. Michigan isn't the first state to introduce a total ban. Plus, it's number one entertainment competitor (Ontario) has already implemented a ban. | ||
Defendbrooklyn Member Username: Defendbrooklyn Post Number: 844 Registered: 11-2005 |
Finally... "How does that one joke go again........sitting in the nonsmoking section of a restaurant is like swimming in the non-peeing section of a public pool" | ||
Chris_rohn Member Username: Chris_rohn Post Number: 441 Registered: 04-2005 |
There's nothing quite like having your bed smell like other people's tobacco exhale the morning after a night at the bar. | ||
Chuckjav Member Username: Chuckjav Post Number: 540 Registered: 09-2007 |
Defendbrooklyn.....from an old wooden sign at the Cooley High School natatorium: "We don't swim in your toilet; please don't pee in our pool". | ||
Xd_brklyn Member Username: Xd_brklyn Post Number: 400 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Yes, that is exactly what happened here in NYC, a city that was notorious for its heavy smokers. The study only left out a further development--once you clean up the smoke hazard in a bar, you not only get people who don't smoke, you also start getting families. In areas like Royal Oak, I wouldn't be surprised if young couples with kids started showing up at bars. This new niche was one of the unexpected changes from the new smoking laws I've seen here in NYC. | ||
Pistonian_revolution Member Username: Pistonian_revolution Post Number: 97 Registered: 05-2006 |
Government SHOULD be able to safeguard people's health. smokers will still be able to smoke in their own homes until their ceilings turn black. apparently, they will even be able to continue smoking outdoors. but i am so in favor of this ban. one of my biggest pet peeves is having to tolerate cigarette smoke in public places. i will get up and leave if a place is too smokey. i don't think this ban has anything to do with civil liberties. i am proud that the state senate is finally doing something to safeguard the public's health. | ||
Rid0617 Member Username: Rid0617 Post Number: 95 Registered: 03-2008 |
My problem is the governments right to tell business owners what to do with their own business and property. While this is a popular decision among the many, what happens when the government passes a no cell phone talking while driving law under the same pretense for the good of the majority? Government is kind of funny. They want everyone to quit smoking but depend more and more on cigarette taxes. | ||
Dds Member Username: Dds Post Number: 613 Registered: 10-2006 |
Bars are not public places. Bars are private businesses. I think the misapprehension that bars are public places is one reason that folks think just because they patronize a place they can do whatever they please. I mean, that and the alcohol. | ||
Dds Member Username: Dds Post Number: 614 Registered: 10-2006 |
The next thing you know, they'll be banning grilling in GCP! Oh the humanity! | ||
J_stone Member Username: J_stone Post Number: 429 Registered: 10-2003 |
If you want to be healthy, don't drink. Bars are unhealthy, like smoking. They go hand and hand. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 2012 Registered: 03-2006 |
might as well ban fast food too, the gases emited from eating that stuff is more dangerous than tobacco | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 4307 Registered: 10-2003 |
By law in most states, bars *are* public places. Police can technically arrest you for Drunk in Public if you are drunk in a bar. (They typically don't, but it's happened.) With that said, usually smoking bans are promoted as a way to 1) improve the health of the employees and 2) improve business at bars and restaurants. There are problems with each of these: 1. From my experiences, a vast majority of bar and restaurant employees smoke. Creating a smoking ban isn't helping them at all, as legislation often claims. 2. If a bar owner believes his business is hurt by smoking, there already exists a legal mechanism to address this: ban it on an individual basis. After DC passed its ban, many nonsmokers (and smokers) were overjoyed at the clean air in bars and restaurants. That is, until the nonsmokers started bitching that they couldn't even walk in the front door without being confronted by clouds of smoke. Of course, these bans are always passed by the types of people who do not regularly hang out in bars. This nanny state crap is ridiculous, and needs to stop. If people can't smoke in bars for health reasons, then Dunkin Donuts should be illegal too, and everyone should have to get off their fat asses on Saturday mornings for a 10 mile run. Of course, the latter two won't happen because it's easy to be judgmental someone else's habits when you're in a 75% majority. | ||
401don Member Username: 401don Post Number: 439 Registered: 11-2007 |
No cell phone while driving laws have been passed lots of places. People get used to it. This law is far more logical than the no seatbelt law, from the standpoint of the majority's safety. | ||
Belleislerunner Member Username: Belleislerunner Post Number: 410 Registered: 12-2003 |
No one forces a Big Mac down your throat in Mcdonalds. You could order an asian salad. No one forces you to drink the Irish car bomb at Dick O'Dows. You could get the diet coke. But when you walk in a bar you are forced to inhale someone else's second hand smoke. It's a pretty clear difference. Why don't they allow you to yell fire in a crowded theatre? After all you could own the theatre. Because other's people's lives are in danger. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 4308 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: No one forces you into the bar, either. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3082 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: Let's say the legislation is designed to protect the health of the employees, as you say... Saying the majority of restaurant employees smoke is not the same as all restaurant employees smoke. So the minority's* interests does not deserve to be protected? *Term used for arguments sake, but I doubt that non-smoking employees are that much of a minority. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 671 Registered: 12-2006 |
Danindc, So what is the alternative for people who want to frequent a bar but don't want to deal with the smoke? | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 4309 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: They don't have to work there if they don't like it. As a nonsmoker who worked in a myriad of restaurants and bars, I knew damn well what I was getting into. | ||
Dds Member Username: Dds Post Number: 616 Registered: 10-2006 |
Traffic Jam has had smoking banned for at least a decade. Karros Bros. bar was non-smoking, but last I heard they closed. I'm sure there are a few more options in the metro area. Edit: I have not been TJ for many, many years due to philosophical differences with the owner. The smoking ban may have lifted since then. (Message edited by dds on May 08, 2008) | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3084 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: So where do you draw the line? If I don't like cigarette smoke then I can't work in a restaurant. Okay. So I go work in a movie theater. Is it okay to ban smoking in a movie theater but not a restaurant? | ||
Dds Member Username: Dds Post Number: 617 Registered: 10-2006 |
quote: I'm going to go out on a limb and say it has to do with the fact that a fire in a dark crowded theater is more of a threat than in a bar. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 672 Registered: 12-2006 |
Dds, I've been in bars/clubs that were just about as dark and WAY more crowded than a theater. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3085 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: Your limb broke. | ||
401don Member Username: 401don Post Number: 440 Registered: 11-2007 |
One word of advice. Make the law clear and stick to it for a while. In Ontario, they first allowed separate, ventilated rooms. Owners spent thousands dividing their donut shops just to stay in business. Then they allowed smoking on patios. Elaborate, winterized patios were built. Then they banned those. |
