  Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4771 Registered: 02-2005 |
Isn't Ann Arbor keeping the AMTRAK station for commuter rail use? That is three blocks from Kerrytown, 5 blocks from the Main Street core, and 8 blocks from campus. The Inkster claim has to be false. | ||
Ljbad89 Member Username: Ljbad89 Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2007 |
Mackinaw, from what I hear, yes the current Amtrak station will be the commuter rail station as well. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1788 Registered: 11-2003 |
One would think sooner or later, AA would invest in a better train station. The AA station is one of the busiest in the state, and AA is a huge town for transit, AATA being a very well run bus system. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1276 Registered: 12-2006 |
Why does the Inskster claim have to be false? He didn't say one in three households have a car, just one in three people. When my first daughter was born, Mrs. Prof and I only had one car, so at that time our household had just one car for every three people. It will be interesting to see where SEMCOG decides to put the airport station; my preference would be Wayne for exactly the reasons Ljbad states (and I don't live anywhere near any of those communities), but I think SEMCOG will be basing their choice on airport accessibility issues more than anything. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1789 Registered: 11-2003 |
And I think vacant land for parking is another big point in choosing a station site. Since this is the Motor City, they are assuming most people are driving there, and those that are not will be taking SMART (or the shuttle from the airport) to connect with the rail line. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 6488 Registered: 11-2003 |
Every major city in the world has rail service to the airport now. Not a shuttle in the snowstorm, but into the airport. This discussion is so car-centric, it brooks no demeaning. LAX is a great example how NOT to do it, with a shuttle off the train system. Completely stupid. Examine Philadelphia, Newark, Chicago, San Francisco, Portland (Ore.), Atlanta, Washngton, DC Reagan, before you build like Washington, DC Dulles, LAX, Oakland or some other stupid idea with a shuttle. They are dreadful. jjaba, traveler. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 4334 Registered: 10-2003 |
BWI has used a shuttle bus from the rail station to the airport for at least 25 years, and it seems to work pretty well. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3096 Registered: 04-2006 |
LaGuardia isn't served by rail either. I believe the plan for DTW is to build a monorail out to the commuter rail line. As is done at both Newark and JFK. So the shuttle bus would be temporary. | ||
Dtowncitylover Member Username: Dtowncitylover Post Number: 110 Registered: 02-2008 |
I think a light rail system would work better to go into DTW. I think the commuter rail would be too big of a project to go into the airport, it's a train, not the chicago el. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3097 Registered: 04-2006 |
The reason that the commuter rail can't go into the airport is because they are using tracks that already exist. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 6489 Registered: 11-2003 |
Ok, like Newark. JFK or BWI. Understood. LaGuardia is another dreadful example of how not to tie and airport to a city. And that's New York City, not some jerkwater place. No vision. Seattle Sea-Tac is finally getting light rail to the airport. Although we hate to say it, even pissant Cleveland has had train service for decades to Hopkins Airport. Boston seems to work pretty well, with an internal airport bus to the nearest "T" station adjacent to airport property. The point is to get people out of their cars and stop building airport parking structures at our biggest airports. Park and ride lots along rail routes will develop. In Portland, Oregon, you can ride your bike to a MAX station or to a bus stop, board with the bike, and park the bike at PDX. Now there's vision. jjaba. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4772 Registered: 02-2005 |
I wish it was like Newark and Detroit equaled Manhattan. Alas, a speedy connection from the airport terminal to a station in/near downtown Wayne would be a huge win. I think Wayne, because of its growth patterns recently, ought to get a station, but I also think that Inkster should. And YES, A2 could really use a nice new (and larger station). I can also see a parking garage going up there, and an AATA route being added to directly service commuters (i.e. a rapid link between the Medical Center and the station-- a five minute drive or 15 minute walk). We shouldn't neccesarily picture docs and administrators commuting in from Detroit or Dearborn, but rather the thousands of nurses and general labor that work here and live in Dearborn, Ypsi, Detroit, and other points east of A2. Profscott, you point out the correct phraseology on that statistic, and I think it was used in a misleading fashion in that story. One would think that one car per three people is pretty standard. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 4335 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think the idea of a monorail connecting the airport to the train station is DOA. Newark has one, in part, because 1) the PANYNJ is huge and has a buttload of money to build it and 2) Newark already had high rail ridership between Amtrak and NJ Transit. It just wouldn't make financial sense to do it in Detroit. | ||
Rbdetsport Member Username: Rbdetsport Post Number: 494 Registered: 11-2005 |
The SEMCOG Report says 8 round trips. Meaning there would be 8 trips in the morning, 8 trips at night. That sounds pretty good to me. | ||
Hardhat Member Username: Hardhat Post Number: 241 Registered: 10-2003 |
A day's worth of posts, and still no Livernois Yard piping up to explain why this commuter train concept has no chance of working. Where, oh where is our favorite public transit wet blanket on this new development? | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1277 Registered: 12-2006 |
Rbdetsport, 8 round trips does not mean 8 in the morning and 8 at night. Think about this: If a train leaves from Ann Arbor to Detroit in the morning, do they let it sit in Detroit all day, piled up with the other trains? My guess is that Ljbad89 has it right: three round trips each rush hour, one mid-day and one evening. (If I was stuck with a small number like eight, that's how I'd do it.) Mackinaw, the basic purpose of statistics (as used by most people) is to mislead. So the fact that we uncovered such a beast does not surprise me. Remember, you can drown standing in a lake that is three feet deep on average. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3098 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: The monorail was proposed to be built by the airport. They aren't exactly hurting for money right now. The idea was to connect the rental car lots and the proposed commuter line to the airport terminals with the monorail. | ||
Mwilbert Member Username: Mwilbert Post Number: 224 Registered: 11-2007 |
I would like to point out that in the Free Press story referenced at the beginning of this thread, it DOES say that in Inkster "only 1 in 3 households have access to a car". That does seem rather low, but that is what it says. | ||
Busterwmu Member Username: Busterwmu Post Number: 484 Registered: 09-2004 |
West Detroit Jct. on top of Junction Street already has a bridge in place which would allow for that time-saving connection to be installed. That bridge is the same age as the 4 others there so it should not need to be rebuilt I wouldn't think. The CN line going north from West Detroit to the crossover from the CR CSA to the CN line between Roosevelt and 25th St. is single track but all the overpasses have an available second track to the west side which could easily support the re-addition of a second track. This could easily tie in with the second CN track which begins between 24th and 25th streets. This connection could shave off a good 5-8 minutes of tedious track switching at W. Detroit, CP-Scotten, and the big turn there. There's some room in the Clark Industrial Park for a SW Detroit area commuter station. Easy access to Michigan and Clark, and lots of room for parking. It makes sense to have some "express" trains, and some that are "local" making all stops. LA's Metrolink, for example, supports local trains, express commuter trains, and also Amtrak Pacific Surfliner trains. In addition to the wye/connecting track construction at West Detroit Jct, a doubletrack needs to be re-constructed between CP-Mort at Greenfield Village and Wayne. 8 Commuter trains would be fighting with 6 daily Amtraks plus at least 4 daily NS trains on this segment of trackage. In order to keep things moving smoothly, this doubletrack would be necessary. Keep the crossovers at Wayne, but install another X-over near Inkster or Beech Daly to increase flexibility. Timekeeping is important, and it will deter Amtrak delays in this area as well. The current doubletrack from Wayne extends west to just west of the NS Willow Run Triple Crown yard. Only a pair of NS trains regularly travel west of Ypsi, so single track to AA could work... with 8 communter trains... for now. As for a new train station at AA, just kick the Gandy Dancer out and move back into the historic Michigan Central depot. Much larger! AA is Amtrak's busiest station in Michigan, followed by Kalamazoo and Dearborn. I hope they'd reopen Ypsi's station as well for commuters, and perhaps two of the 6 daily Amtrak trains. It IS close to downtown and Depottown and is in a pretty good spot. Wayne, Westland, and Inkster all have ups and downs. No doubt it's best to get one station put in first then add stations once service has begun. If they build the station at Wayne, it should be east of the Elizabeth St. crossing. If they ever decide to extend heavy rail commuter trains to Metro or that area, with plans to utilize the CSX Saginaw Subdivision between Wayne and Metro, there is a connection track alignment long out of service in the SE quadrant of Wayne Diamond, from the days of NYC/C&O interchange there. A depot east of Elizabeth would allow one Wayne depot to service both AA and Metro Airport bound trains from one location. As for a new Dearborn station, the idea is to put it at Elm Street, pretty much at the far east end of Dearborn's West Downtown District. In this way, it would be easily accessible to downtown west Dearborn, and also to Greenfield Village, combining the stops, and eliminating the Civic Center and Greenfield Village stations. This would be another reason to relay the doubletrack between Dearborn and Wayne. I've seen an artist's rendering, it looks pretty good. It would make sense to also have an east Dearborn commuter station for some trains to service that area. Maybe a platform near Schaefer or Geer Park would be a suitable location. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4774 Registered: 02-2005 |
Good ideas, especially the one about buying out the Gandy Dancer. Mwilbert, that is true, and that is beyond misleading if what they mean is one in three people. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1278 Registered: 12-2006 |
Good ideas, but like I said, this service is going to be put into place as inexpensively as possible, since the money for it basically has to come out of Carmine Palombo's hat. That's why at first the only really "new" station will be the one that provides service to the airport. Ypsi will have a stop but I think the old Ypsi station is still there. And they won't pay the several million dollars to buy the Gandy Dancer restaurant since the Amshack, while not pretty, is perfectly useful for the purpose it serves. If you were going to add stations at all, I can think of four I'd add straight away, but they won't: Dexter, Chelsea, east Dearborn (say, Schaefer, or thereabouts) and west Detroit (perhaps Junction or Livernois). That may come later, if the service proves popular, which is going to mostly depend on what connects to it as much as the service itself. If they don't rework bus service to make good connections, and if they don't put some kind of light rail down Woodward el grande pronto, this will fall on its face. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 4777 Registered: 02-2005 |
I don't think going west of A2 should be a priority. I think connecting the rather small and not-so-dense populations in/around Dexter/Chelsea should be a seperate undertaking that AATA could easily invest in, either by expanding their own bus system, or operating rail westward from A2. Dexter and Chelsea send plenty of commuters to A2, but not beyond, so they don't fit into the A2-Detroit corridor, and should not be in any initial service. I do think it would be egregious to leave Ypsi out of this, though. | ||
Reddog289 Member Username: Reddog289 Post Number: 287 Registered: 08-2007 |
since i live in wayne also, and i hope i don,t kill this thread , but wasn,t the old Eloise Station at mich/merriman and the old Wayne Depot east of Elizabeth? BusterWMU was right there ain,t alot of land behind the Rite Aid, and if i,m right i belive that the parking deck in Wayne was built to serve commuter traffic between Detroit and A2. | ||
Ljbad89 Member Username: Ljbad89 Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2007 |
To Professor Scott: The old MCRR depot in Ypsilanti is still there. Of course, there would need to be repairs done because it hasn't been used in years. Right now, the tower on top is just being held up by planks. I'd say that remodelling the old station would be much cheaper than building a new one... However, the guy who owns the depot has a bad reputation amongst Depot Town business owners because he hasn't done anything in the years that he has owned it to remodel it, clean it, etc. It just sits there. To Buster: It costs a lot of money to relay tracks, but anything is a possibility. The good thing about the right of way between Dearborn and Wayne is that the ballast on which the second track used to be still extends the whole 9 or so miles, so that would be a bit of a money-saver. Why Conrail (I think they owned the tracks then) removed the tracks in the first place is a mystery to me. They couldn't have been harming anything. | ||
Ljbad89 Member Username: Ljbad89 Post Number: 10 Registered: 10-2007 |
Years ago, the Eloise stop was indeed somewhere between Henry Ruff and Merriman. I saw a picture a long time ago in which I thought it was by the old spur and small lake closer to Henry Ruff. Like said, it was a while ago so I may be wrong. Speaking of the spur, quite a bit of it is still there, but overgrown with trees and weeds. I'm not sure about the Wayne station. A while ago I found out a train station was at Wayne and Michigan Avenue, but I don't know if it was a MCRR or interurban station. The following link was interesting because it's the only pictures I have ever found of there being proof of a former Wayne station. http://www.michiganrailroads.c om/RRHX/Stations/CountyStation s/WayneStations/WayneMI.htm | ||
Reddog289 Member Username: Reddog289 Post Number: 289 Registered: 08-2007 |
Ljbad89, it was you not buster who looked behind RITE-AID, I myself wonder why they ripped out the tracks between DBN&WAYNE. some good info on the Ypsi depot, every time i go by there i,m surprised it,s still standing. | ||
Waymooreland Member Username: Waymooreland Post Number: 54 Registered: 11-2007 |
Isn't it great that we're even having this discussion? Cities are actually fighting over who gets a train station? I love it. I tend to agree with those who suggested that they should build one station right away for airport shuttling. Wayne makes the most sense to me based on its proximity to the airport. Then just get the thing rolling and add more stations as demand inevitably grows. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 4336 Registered: 10-2003 |
I agree. I think it's fantastic that these cities are fighting over who gets the rail station. It seems like Wayne "gets the idea", and is ready to pounce. Good news to hear! Slightly off-topic: On this thread, there have been comments about how "bare bones" this starter line is going to be. It's not too early to start thinking about improvements should the line be wildly successful. Below is a link to a planning document for the Maryland Rail Commuter (MARC)--a service that is about 30 years old in name (but existed under different entities previously). MARC is trying to triple ridership in the next 30 years. I just wanted to give you guys a taste of what the "next steps" might look like. http://www.mtamaryland.com/pro jects/marc%20plan%20full.pdf | ||
Slider Member Username: Slider Post Number: 40 Registered: 06-2007 |
A stop in Ypsi would have rousing support from the community. The great thing about the Ypsi stop is that it is completely integrated into the community and is very walkable for a majority of city residents and EMU students. I live about 6 blocks from the former train station, which as others have alluded to is owned by the same fellow that owns the Bell Tower Inn and Campus Inn in A2. Unfortunately he does not care for the train station like his a2 properties. And yes, business owners in Depot Town do have an negative view of him. I see one of two scenarios happening if Ypsi gets a stop (excluding the longshot that the freighthouse would serve as the station). It will be located just north of the existing station where there is a city lot available, or it will locate in the existing station which will be sold for a premium angering Depot Town merchants who will be upset that his speculation and lack of maintenance pays off for him. Although, I'm sure those hard feelings would be quickly offset by the major plus an actual train stop in Depot Town would bring. (Message edited by slider on May 13, 2008) | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1280 Registered: 12-2006 |
There's really not any question that a stop in Ypsi is a part of the project. The following is from SEMCOG's web site: "The current project is to provide commuter rail service in the Detroit-Ann Arbor corridor with stops in Ann Arbor, Ypsilanti, Detroit Metropolitan Airport, Dearborn, and Detroit. The project takes advantage of existing infrastructure where possible and requires adding new station stops in Ypsilanti and at Detroit Metro Airport." |
