Post Number: 133
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 1:28 am: || |
I have been telling friends down here how I was serious about moving to Detroit and am hearing all kinds of garbage. The majority of it is being told because it's an urban city, it has a history of crime, etc. So, I did some digging and Detroiters, your crime is not as bad as Atlanta. Here is some comparisons
Population 918,849 486,411
Sq miles 143 132
Ratio 81% blk 14% wh 59% blk 33%W
Atlanta PD has a crime map. It's not operational by street or a period exceeding 2 weeks. Here is the city wide crime statistics for Atlanta for the past 2 weeks:
Aggravated Assault 77
Residential burglary 284
Non residential burglary 62
Vehicle larceny 321
Auto theft 207
Now remember that is only in the past 2 weeks in a city smaller than Detroit. You folks may have a lot of boarded and crumbling buildings but it does sound safer. If anyone wants to play with the map here is the link. You can pull crime stats up by zone or the entire city
Post Number: 2150
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 1:34 am: || |
"The majority of it is being told because it's an urban city"
Wow, I thought cities were *suppose* to be urban?
It tells a lot about Atlanta.
However, only 1 homicide to Detroit's 400 (even if you double Atlanta's number to detroit's size, it's only 2)? I guess that is something to brag about.
(Message edited by DetroitRise on May 19, 2008)
Post Number: 134
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 1:37 am: || |
LOL well I'm hearing this currently in South Carolina but it is said in Atlanta too. Down here the word urban is considered to mean black. It's like everyone wants to make sure Detroit gets a bad rap. On the homicides Detroits 400 is for the entire year. The 1 in Atlanta is just in the past 2 weeks.
Remember all of the numbers for Atlanta is what has happened in the past 2 weeks.
(Message edited by rid0617 on May 19, 2008)
(Message edited by rid0617 on May 19, 2008)
Post Number: 135
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 1:39 am: || |
Nothing like getting a couple more thoughts after the last edit. Sorry about that. It looks like garbage now LOL
Post Number: 6843
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 1:55 am: || |
Detroitrise... reread the original post!
And then rethink your comments about the homicide rate comparison...
Post Number: 295
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 2:38 am: || |
must be in the end times when Detroit sounds safer. now i,m scared to go to world of coca cola.
Post Number: 139
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 2:57 am: || |
If you go downtown it's the safest. We never felt fear the entire time we lived there when we went downtown. World of Coke, the Aquarium and other attractions are safe. MARTA has some crime but MARTA also has it's own certified police force. They are around all the stations and riding on the trains. I did that for 2 years but for a street cop playing with electric trains got boring.
Entire time we lived there we didn't feel unsafe in our homes. We learned as long as you kept your nose and comments to yourself there was no problem. Now, Atlanta is having a major increase in home invasions in the past couple years.
(Message edited by rid0617 on May 19, 2008)
Post Number: 181
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 8:04 am: || |
Some things that I have read a lot about on this board but haven't heard much about until recently here in Atlanta are scrapper crimes. Oh, we also have another new neighbor from Michigan. That's four families now in the last few months. As I started reading about manhole covers missing, a church's air conditioners ripped apart for the copper and then a school had about 10 of its buses' catalytic converters cut out, I thought, ah, the Detroit thieves have moved to Atlanta! These are crimes I've heard people on this board talk about for months (or years) and had never heard happening in Atlanta until recently.
Post Number: 4305
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 8:52 am: || |
I know the Atlanta Journal-Constitution ran an article about it in April 2007 and there was a bill addressing it in the Georgia legislature at that time, so it's not a new problem there.
Post Number: 344
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 8:53 am: || |
1 homicide every two weeks equals 26 Homicides per year. How does that stack up against Detroit?
I'm sure Atlanta has a homicide rate that is slightly higher than this, but can it reach the 400+ level? Doubt it. Not to hack on the D, but let's look at the facts. Murder is greater in Detroit. Randon link below for comparison
http://www.cityrating.com/city crime.asp?city=Atlanta&state=G A
http://www.cityrating.com/city crime.asp?city=Detroit&state=M I
Don't know about the authenticity of these sites, but hey it looks ok. Is that what they said about Kwame??
Post Number: 182
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 9:06 am: || |
Recently = last week. All three stories were from last week in the news:
Post Number: 219
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 11:19 am: || |
Why would people equate "urban" with "black?" ALL kinds or people live in cities. That one blew my mind!
Post Number: 192
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 11:54 am: || |
"Why would people equate "urban" with "black?" ALL kinds or people live in cities. That one blew my mind!"
Because you have cities like Boston, New York and Miami that are not black controlled,and you have cities like Atlanta,Detroit and DC that are.
It has more to do with who controls the political power structure of the city more that the races of the people living in the city. It just so happens in many case (not all) the black political structure rules over a black population majority.
In "urban cities" unfortunately the drug culture/drug economy is strong and accounts for either directly or indirectly for much of the crime that goes on. It also accounts for how that crime is being reported by the media since Miami is/was a cesspool of drugs but it never took the image hits Detroit takes.
Post Number: 1832
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 11:59 am: || |
"urban" has been a euphemism for "black" for quite some time now...this is the first time you've seen it used?
Post Number: 142
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 2:05 pm: || |
Our local radio station (107.3 Jamz) even refers to itself as the "urban alternative".
Post Number: 2158
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 2:08 pm: || |
Yeah, "suburban" cities are "hip" this century.
Give it time, once Detroit goes suburban, people will want "urban" cities.
Post Number: 3125
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 2:11 pm: || |
Atlanta's murder rate is pretty high. It's at least top 10, if not top 5.
Post Number: 2160
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 2:13 pm: || |
Well, even if Atlanta isn't exactly safe or surrounded by banks of water, they have a kick-ass economy to back it up.
Heck, out of any city, they're probably feeling this mild recession the least.
Post Number: 345
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 2:24 pm: || |
And also feeling the lack of "banks of water".
Poor city is hurting for fresh water in many ways. I don't know if the last 3-4 months has changed anything with their drought, but I know that the problem has been gaining steam over the last 10 years or so, and it didn't appear to be going away.
We have water and terrible economy, and they have no water and a great economy. Maybe we should all meet along I-75 in Lexington, KY for a trade.
Post Number: 446
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 2:55 pm: || |
The title is misleading and the opening paragraph is incorrect.
A spike in crime could mean a spike from the prior year, which could have been abnormally low; one really needs to look at several years prior to drawing any conclusions, however a spike could indicate a trend, but it cannot be used to extrapolate crime figures for a year.
Murders in the city of Atlanta did jump in 2006, they were up 22 percent from the previous year, according to statistics by the FBI.
Specifically Atlanta had 110 homicides in 2006, compared to 90 in 2005, in 2004 the figure 112, in years prior to that the numbers held steady @ 130-140
In 2006 (2007 FBI figures come out in September) crime rates for cities with populations greater than 250,000:
Atlanta ranked 12th,
Detroit was in 1st place.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U nited_States_cities_by_crime_r ate
The Motor City experienced an incredible 418 cases of murder and non-negligent manslaughter in 2006. That's 47.3 murders per every 100,000 residents.
That figure of 47.3 per 100,000 is a pathetic, dangerous, third world country figure.
Detroit also ranked high for violent crime—second place, robbery--fourth place, and forcible rape--twelfth place.
To put it in perspective: Detroit's murder rate is more than 8% higher than the country's second most murderous city, Baltimore, and eight times that of the least murderous metro.
More people were murdered in Detroit than in San Antonio, San Diego, Dallas and San Jose combined--and each one of those cities has a bigger population than Detroit.
Post Number: 4367
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 3:01 pm: || |
A caveat, from the same Wikipedia entry linked immediately above:
It is also important to note that crime "rates" are affected by the size of the central municipality - they will generally appear much lower in larger, newer cities (particularly in the Western United States) that have been able to annex larger amounts of suburban and rural areas at the fringe. In older regions of the United States, particularly in the Northeast, many cities had their boundaries set in the 1700s, and have since grown much larger than that. In such places, the area considered the central "municipality" may only consist of the central CBD/core with older housing stock and a higher population density (particularly with daytime CBD workers who are not counted as residents) and therefore appear to have a higher crime "rate" even though in reality, they often have much less crime per capita than core CBDs/cities that have annexed larger amounts of surrounding land as part of their municipality.
Post Number: 218
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 6:52 pm: || |
If a person looks at homicide alone to rank a city as being dangerous, Detroit could be said to be more dangerous than Mexico. Though it may not be entirely accurate due to corruption and a lack of reporting, annual homicide numbers in Mexico City are frequently cited in the 900-1000 range. That's roughly 10+ murders per 100,000 vs. Detroit's 40+ per 100,000.
Statistics prove that Atlanta's crime rate is not as severe as Detroit's. Meanwhile, regardless of the stats, proportions, and size of the city... premeditated murder is unacceptable be it 400 or 1.
Citizens and officials need to stop entertaining themselves and celebrating when murders drop to 350. Instead of viewing the issue as "numbers" and saving Detroit's image, they need to view these as LIVES (and human beings).
For example, though I was thrilled more than most about Super Bowl XL being hosted in the city, I was disgusted how the city rushed to cover and diminish the significance of the murder of the lady that was shot in the CBD during the festivities.
Why have we become so calloused to the crime around us? Why do we anticipate or expect murder stories on the news? Why must we choose between living in one crime-ridden city and another crime-ridden city? Why isn't there outrage, uprising and marches over the crime? What's up with this no-snitching campaign? I love this city...but I think we are falling deeper into insanity.
(Message edited by Young_detroiter on May 20, 2008)
Post Number: 194
|Posted on Monday, May 19, 2008 - 7:42 pm: || |
What people are afraid of especially when it comes to murders is the amount of "random" crime. If you could break down the murders in the city and you take aways the family arguments , passion crimes and so forth its a good chance its drug related. I would bet be there are few instances of random murders.
There.. that should make you feel better about coming to Detroit , unless you plan on getting into the drug business.
Post Number: 381
|Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 12:00 am: || |
Something to add as a foot note to the random murders comment above;
Density also matters. The more people you see, in a close, tight little area, the more crimes you are going to see first hand. This is a concept that I have had a very hard time explaining to family and friends in the suburbs. It's honestly just a guess, but it does make sense doesn't it?
And it's not just that people don't want to be the victim of a crime, they also don't want to have their night ruined by seeing something bad happen. I was watching a movie called "The Truman Show" last night. It really is this in a nutshell. (Spoiler Alert) In this movie, the main character is adopted by a Hollywood studio company as a baby, and spends his life growing up a movie set. His life is televised to the world, and completely manufactured and controlled by the studio. Eventually he figures it out and is given the choice of living in a fake paradise, or the real (and sometimes very scary and dangerous) world.
I can't help comparing this fictional situation to our real world situation in Detroit and other American suburbs. For some reason, there are some people who strive for that manufactured fake happiness of suburbia. Suburbia was once billed as the new American dream. Detroiters (many of you guys...like me) have a extremely hard time understanding this concept. I don't fully get it either. Why would anyone want that? Why would anyone not want the real world... which is, freedom? It's a question I certainly wish I had the answer for, but I think it's irrelevant. It goes back to the obscure point I made in the true colors post. It's different personalities and different dreams. It's the plague of being human, really. We think everyone has the same needs and wants as us, they don't. Right now I have "the Terminal" on (another movie). It's the same thing. There's a guy who is stuck in a system of bureaucracy that is absurd. But yet he has to live in an airport because this one guy has to follow the rules. To him the rules are unbreakable (the gold personality of True Colors). It's what I was trying to explain to Gannon in another thread. It's a type of personality. Real quick (and off topic), that's why you can't argue with those people, because they just aren't able to see things from your point of view. Some people like this way of thinking. Some people need that fake safety net to feel comfortable. It's just like some people need risks to feel comfortable (I.E. SOME drug users, thrill seekers, sky divers and urban explorers). It's so easy to forget how different we all really are. It's like that City Slickers movie. "the meaning of life is this one thing". "What one thing?" "Well, once you know what that one thing is, you know the meaning of life". Some people will choose the dream worlds over the much scarier real world no matter what. it's their "mission" in life. The American Dream seems to have been forgotten by many Americans. It's the pursuit of happiness. That pursuit of happiness is unique to each and every one of us. I think that was the real intent of our founding fathers.
We aren't supposed to be going around trying to save each other like we are today. Insert Lyrics;
"Sweet dreams are made of these... every body's looking for something. Some of them want to abuse you, some of them want to be abused."
I remember learning in grade school that our first president; George Washington was surprised and could not understand why some people wanted to have a king or ruler in the new world. Why didn't they want freedom? He couldn't get it. The reason was because some people like being workers. Some people need the rules and structure and authority.
Liberals aren't liberal enough sometimes. They need to look at things on a larger scale. The same can be said about conservatives. We need to really try a little harder to understand each other. and be willing to admit that our view may be obscured and irrelevant to the next person.
I've never been to Atlanta. But I would guess it's the same as here. As firstandten said, it's the random murders. Detroit should have "environments" for all different types of personalities people have.
Crime is not the issue . Unification is. You have to ask the question; how can we bring all these people together? That's the type of environment we want to become. With a central gathering place for decision making. Ala government democracy.
If anyone needs somethin' re-phrased another way let me know. I get accused of making confusing posts all to often. I tried to be less vague with this one.
All you future urban planners should keep this in mind.
personality dictates behavior.
And this has been quite the foot note.
Post Number: 6008
|Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 12:23 am: || |
What the hell are you babbling on about?
Anyway, if ranking by murder only, Detroit and Baltimore (2006) ranked over 40 per 100,000 persons with major American cities.
If we're talking overall violent crime (which includes murder, aggravated assault, etc.), St. Louis ranks first with Detroit close behind.
Post Number: 219
|Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 1:52 pm: || |
Unfortunately, we brush off far too many murders as drug-related or "deserving" in some way. However, this is merely a way for us to cope with and/or condone the crime. We are told by officials that victims have involvement with crime, etc. However, this is done to simply calm fears. The truth is a lot of these are "random," and when they aren't... still lots more are innocent or mistaken individuals that were caught in the cross-fire.
When living in many residential neighborhoods in Detroit, it is not a question of whether or not you're in the drug business, because the drug business comes to you. It comes to your street... the dealers sit in front of your house... you try to confront the dealers, and you end up dead. The dedicated police officers are overwhelmed and some of them just don't care.
If I lived in downtown Detroit or Midtown, I would feel safe and have no problem walking down the street.... but not everyone can live in the comfortable, upscale districts of the city where police actually show up or where the lights actually work or where you don't here gun shots daily.
BTW, my neighborhood was once a "nice," clean, attractive neighborhood, but the cancer of blight and crime has crept in. Now, it is just as much a part of the epicenter of crime as any other part of the city.
For those that live in the isolated pockets of the city that have survived with low crime rates, count it as a blessing.
Nevertheless, if you want to move to the city... most certainly come. Simply make an effort to relocate to the gentrified, revitalized, or maintained areas of the city.
Post Number: 196
|Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 4:17 pm: || |
Young_detroiter I agree with your assessment. You don't have to be in the drug business to be seriously affected by it. If you live in areas where the drug economy is strong you are affected by it as much as living in Detroit you are affected by the auto economy. If you go into neighborhoods that are primarily owner occupied housing which in Detroit are becoming less and less, you stand a better chance of not being affected by the drug economy as if you lived in an area of mostly renters.
Post Number: 96
|Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 5:09 pm: || |
Still trying to convince yourself to move here, huh, Rid0617? You're a determined fella, aren't you? You can't compare crime between cities using 2 weeks of data for only 1 city! C'mon!
Club_boss, excellent post! That would have taken me an hour to compile! And I would have done it for good ol' Rid0617!
Post Number: 146
|Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2008 - 5:45 pm: || |
We're in neutral on the decision. What I haven't mentioned is I'm a ham radio operator. KB4YKJ if any of you are. I've talked to several up there and they like the forum are mixed. Common up and are you crazy. We did more checking and found out how many people are buying these properties for investments. The comment that slowed the discussion way down was that if this house was worth having one of our posters and 20 others would have jumped on it. So, I'm waiting on another email about a possible house on a good side of Detroit near the city limits.