 
River_rat
Member
Username: River_rat
Post Number: 346
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 8:19 am: |    |
How soon we become disinterested! The American Axle strike is about to enter its tenth week. The original thread has died off but the workers are still out and the likelihood that the jobs will forever disappear from Detroit is increasing every day. And we wonder why Detroit continues to decline in relevance.
May Day has traditionally been a day to celebrate the ordinary working man. How will we celebrate when no one is working? |
Jman
Member
Username: Jman
Post Number: 162
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 8:31 am: | |
I thought the U.S. celebrated the working man on Labor Day. |
Huggybear
Member
Username: Huggybear
Post Number: 323
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 8:36 am: | |
The AA strike is a great example of why strikes that are essentially about money should be illegal and why labor disputes should immediately be put in arbitration. If the strike were confined in its effects to AA, then it would be one thing. But the cascading effects on AA's customers (like GM) are causing problems at companies that legitimately made their own deals with the UAW. |
Mikem
Member
Username: Mikem
Post Number: 3619
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 9:53 am: | |
I thought these were non-skilled jobs not even requiring a high school degree. There's a glut of unemployed men in this area fitting that description. I thought they were hiring replacement workers from that pool. What's the holdup? |
Unclefrank
Member
Username: Unclefrank
Post Number: 141
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 10:12 am: | |
I thought "May Day" was a celebration of world communism. |
Cambrian
Member
Username: Cambrian
Post Number: 1895
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 10:47 am: | |
Yeah basically, Dick Dauch is a greedy prick who thinks it's his birthright to skim 30% off the top of yearly profits and put it in his pocket and then turn around and expect people that have given the company 20 years of their lives to take a 50% pay cut. As a result no one cares about AAM anymore. |
Oldredfordette
Member
Username: Oldredfordette
Post Number: 4529
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 10:55 am: | |
Visit the picket line today for May Day.
Last week, thousands of people were at the picket line. They are getting great support. Just because it's not on the news doesn't mean it isn't happening.
Mikem, you are wrong. |
Mikem
Member
Username: Mikem
Post Number: 3620
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 11:16 am: | |
Well, I thought there was a simple solution to this. It's repetitive manual labor, and these days it's not that manual either. Place part in press, push button, remove part from press, take contractual smoke break. What kind of education do you need for that?
The unemployment rate within walking distance of that plant has to be 20 % and the average income of the other 80 % must to be close to minimum wage. If this work can easily be transferred overseas, why can't AAM replace those workers with the locals in less than a week? I ask again, what's the holdup? |
Mjb3
Member
Username: Mjb3
Post Number: 168
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 11:19 am: | |
I think Mikem is right.
Why does every automotive job have to go south of the mason-dixon line? ArvinMeritor built a brand new plant in Detroit(first in nearly 25 yrs) and within 3 yrs, UAW had organized them. How long before those jobs go to Ky, Al, etc.
That's why the Jap's will builds offices, but never a plant in this state.
AAM workers will probably get what they want cause their dealing with GM. Waggoner will make Dauch cave. Too bad they can't deal with UAW like Caterpillar; then there would be a future for SEM Auto Manufacturing instead of past... |
Cambrian
Member
Username: Cambrian
Post Number: 1896
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 11:21 am: | |
If only we could hand the executive staff's jobs over to a bunch of Hamtramack locals why we were at it. |
Wykkidx
Member
Username: Wykkidx
Post Number: 11
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 11:25 am: | |
Anyone know how much Ron Gettelfinger makes a year ? |
Cambrian
Member
Username: Cambrian
Post Number: 1897
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 11:27 am: | |
I had heard around $350K / year. This has come up before. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 759
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 11:35 am: | |
Dauch and his guys bought a failing GM unit (Forge & Gear) and turned it around. Without those brains the place would have folded long ago. If it's so damn easy to play boss then why didn't the UAW buy the place from GM? Why dosn't the UAW or the kind of money that got behind Air America buy failing manufacturing plants in Michigan? "They" don't because the root of the problem is the cost of labor. |
Track75
Member
Username: Track75
Post Number: 2703
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 11:45 am: | |
quote:The unemployment rate within walking distance of that plant has to be 20 % and the average income of the other 80 % must to be close to minimum wage. If this work can easily be transferred overseas, why can't AAM replace those workers with the locals in less than a week? I ask again, what's the holdup? While GM workers can't legally refuse to use parts made by replacement workers, there are other ways of accomplishing that goal (sabotaging the line, work-to-rule, damaging vehicles as they move down the line, etc.)
Permanently replacing workers is the nuclear option, expect a very negative reaction from some in this town. The last thing AAM's biggest customer, GM, needs right now is labor problems. |
Mikem
Member
Username: Mikem
Post Number: 3622
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 11:48 am: | |
Thanks. I've been out of the country for most of the month. Last thing I remember before I left was that AAM was advertising locally for replacement workers. |
Oldredfordette
Member
Username: Oldredfordette
Post Number: 4533
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 12:11 pm: | |
Mikem, drive over to the plant, ask the people there exactly what their job was at American Axle. Listen to them, not just hysterical propaganda. |
Mikem
Member
Username: Mikem
Post Number: 3624
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 12:42 pm: | |
Are you implying that their job is something more than a collection of unskilled tasks a monkey could do? |
Cambrian
Member
Username: Cambrian
Post Number: 1898
Registered: 08-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 12:46 pm: | |
"They" don't because the root of the problem is the cost of labor"
Hmmmmm.....then I wonder why GM, Ford and Chrylser who have been shrinking thier labor base for the last 8 years have yet to see a profitable year? |
Oldredfordette
Member
Username: Oldredfordette
Post Number: 4534
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 1:05 pm: | |
Yes, I am saying that, not implying.
Oh well, Happy May Day to you all. I am off to the picket line. An injury to one is an injury to all. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 761
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 1:12 pm: | |
Think a little harder, Cambrian: costs are still too high. I have some sympathy for the people for whom a way of life is ending, but economic fundamentals dictate that international standards apply to the guys at AAM.
re: "unskilled monkeys" - I worked at AAM (vendor) and the line workers were decent men & women, however I didn't see much that couldn't be mastered by a kid out of high school or a coolie. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 762
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 1:19 pm: | |
More on the macro economics of the Big Three: market share & gross vehicle production has shrunk, but the cost of development and production has not yet sunk to competitive levels, i.e. headcount reduction has been a wash, given the number of units built. Also, legacy costs for retiree pensions & healthcare exceed the amount of profit earned on the small/economy vehicles. Very bleak, guys. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 6452
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 1:31 pm: | |
Ford is actually doing decent as a company. Their stocks are up over 12% from a few months back, they announced a profit for 1st quarter while everybody else has lost money. Their quality is way up. The falling dollar and new UAW agreement has made manufacturing here cheaper, and they are bringing more work into the company instead of having suppliers do it. |
_sj_
Member
Username: _sj_
Post Number: 2206
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 1:31 pm: | |
quote:More on the macro economics of the Big Three: market share & gross vehicle production has shrunk, but the cost of development and production has not yet sunk to competitive levels, i.e. headcount reduction has been a wash, given the number of units built. Also, legacy costs for retiree pensions & healthcare exceed the amount of profit earned on the small/economy vehicles. Very bleak, guys.
Problem is that people still refuse to accept this basic concept.
It also doesn't help when the cars are sold with massive discounts to employees further impacting the said above.
quote:Mikem, drive over to the plant, ask the people there exactly what their job was at American Axle. Listen to them, not just hysterical propaganda.
While you are at drive on over to CenTra and visit the shipping plant in Ponitac and ask those workers how they feel about a strike. When this is all said and done those workers will get the shaft to account for the costs at AAM. But no one ever wants to talk about the downdraft effect on other union workers who get the shaft in the long run. So when AAM closes those plants and the workers get 90k buyouts those union workers will just be jettisoned onto the unemployment line however do this strike and other shutdowns will have very little insurance left. |
Track75
Member
Username: Track75
Post Number: 2704
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 1:35 pm: | |
The skill level of the workers is not the core issue. The core issue is that whatever their skill level, simian or surgeon, it costs so much more to employ them compared to similar workers at similar companies. Companies that AAM must compete against.
The original GM plants that are striking are not competitive. They are not profitable. Their costs are too high. AAM's other plants, the ones that ARE profitable, are subsidizing the overpaid workers at the money-losing plants. That's no way to run a business, not if you want the business to stay in business against competitors with lower costs.
AAM strikers are understandably fearful about their future. Taking a 50% pay cut is hard. But the $70/hr "all-in" jobs are going to disappear one of two ways. Either the workers agree to a pay cut or the marketplace puts those plants out of business. Either way the $70/hr jobs are gone, replaced by jobs paying market-set wages.
The strike just delays the inevitable and unnecessarily spreads a lot of economic pain to third parties like GM, their suppliers, and the SE Michigan region. Maybe instead of AAM workers being so angry about a 50% pay cut they should be grateful for all the years they were paid 200% of what the job really ought to pay. |
_sj_
Member
Username: _sj_
Post Number: 2207
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 1:38 pm: | |
True, the skill level is not an issue. However I think #1 mentality is still an issue. No one works as hard, no one works as fast, no one does it better than them, etc. A lot of this is about pride. Still trying to believe they are best, we see it everyday in this country in other areas. My kid can beat up your kid, our military is #1.
We have lost our way. |
Classico
Member
Username: Classico
Post Number: 77
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 2:45 am: | |
Mikem,
I guarantee you anyone who crosses that picket line to fill out ab app for a "job" will not make it across. You'd be an idiot to even attempt. You won't get far regardless. Alot of those "mindless monkeys" are actually skilled trade persons working there as well. Some of which have done more actual work in their lives than you have ever dreamed of.
Those people know and accept the fact they will making less, thats not the issue. The issue is expecting people to take a 50% cut. Thats fing ludicrous and Dick Dauch is a complete dipshit to expect people to accept that. It's not their fault the big three were not thinking about tomm 20-30 years ago when most of their competition was. So now your going to fuck up thousands of peoples lives all at once to make up for past mistakes?
People have built their lives around the incomes they have been making the past how many years. You cant expect someone making 30 bucks an hour to go down to 15. It doesn't work that way.
Also about the "non-Skilled". There are people working there who are pretty good at what they do I'm sure, and of course you have complete idiots who could be easily be replaced. The skilled trades are not called skilled trades for nothing. |
Craig
Member
Username: Craig
Post Number: 775
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 8:06 am: | |
Been a couple of years since I was walking around inside at The Gear, so I'll have to ask: everyone still have chairs and stools padlocked to their machines? All of the hidey-holes have been smoked out?
No question that management/leadership have made dumb decisions, but to maintain that Production and Trades are underpaid saints is ridiculous. |
Spartacus
Member
Username: Spartacus
Post Number: 298
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 9:12 am: | |
Classico:
I have a suggestion for the skilled workers: if you don't like the pay, go find a job somewhere else.
If they are as skilled as you say, I'm sure someone out there will be willing to pay them what they feel they are worth. If AAM can find someone else to do the job at the wages that they are offering then everyone will be happy. That is kind of how the market works.
AAM does not operate in a vacuum. This is exhibit A for why jobs move away from Detroit.
Anyone blaming this on Dauch needs to wake-up. Without him the company wouldn't exist, he took and continues to take enormous risk with his investment in AAM. Why should he have to share the fruits of his labor by paying above market wages.
By the way, the suggestion that the picketers would prevent someone from getting an application (ostensibly by the use of physical force) is disgusting. |
Mikem
Member
Username: Mikem
Post Number: 3632
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 10:13 am: | |
quote:Alot of those "mindless monkeys" are actually skilled trade persons working there as well. Some of which have done more actual work in their lives than you have ever dreamed of. Not according to everyone's informed opinion here. Could the whole forum be wrong?
quote:The issue is expecting people to take a 50% cut. I took a 42% pay cut plus cuts in benefits which would equal more than a 50% reduction in compensation. Whaaaa! I still have a job, I still make my mortgage payments, I still live here and so I still contribute to the local economy. |
Kevgoblu
Member
Username: Kevgoblu
Post Number: 95
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 06, 2008 - 10:37 am: | |
^^^^
Not to mention, illegal. |