  Eastsidedame Member Username: Eastsidedame Post Number: 234 Registered: 12-2006 |
1089 Iroquois. I wish I could afford this; one of my favorite architects. http://www.trulia.com/property /39911516-1089-Iroquois-St-Det roit-MI-48214 | ||
Mama_jackson Member Username: Mama_jackson Post Number: 361 Registered: 06-2006 |
What a beauty! Oh my gosh.... | ||
Alley Member Username: Alley Post Number: 272 Registered: 02-2008 |
god, that house is beautiful! The woodwork inside is something else. I wish! | ||
Raptor56 Member Username: Raptor56 Post Number: 333 Registered: 05-2007 |
Now that would be a cool house for entertaining. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 781 Registered: 05-2006 |
Per the State of Michigan website tax calculator, the property taxes on this home will be $23,086. Who can afford that on top of the price/payments? | ||
Jcole Member Username: Jcole Post Number: 1448 Registered: 04-2005 |
If that house were in Boulder,CO, it would sell for at least $5 Million. My daughter lives out there, and we've gone house looking, and if we could pick up a few of these gorgeous old homes, put them down out there and sell them, we could fix Detroit's budget deficit. | ||
Hamtragedy Member Username: Hamtragedy Post Number: 161 Registered: 10-2007 |
The ceilings in there are painted silk. There are cherry carvings of the original owners. Stunningly ornate. | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 981 Registered: 11-2006 |
the price on that house dropped A LOT | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 343 Registered: 11-2007 |
Um, all of the house priced in IV have dropped since 2005. Houses that were listed near 500K are under 200K right now. | ||
Registeredguest Member Username: Registeredguest Post Number: 367 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Um, all of the house priced in IV have dropped since 2005. Houses that were listed near 500K are under 200K right now." Um, yeah, like this home: http://www.trulia.com/homes/Mi chigan/Detroit/sold/2147666-30 65-Iroquois-St-Detroit-MI-4821 4 "Sold for $524,850 on Apr 4th, 2008" Or this home: http://www.trulia.com/homes/Mi chigan/Detroit/sold/2147364-14 38-Iroquois-St-Detroit-MI-4821 4 "Sold for $360,000 on Dec 14th, 2007" Or this home: http://www.trulia.com/homes/Mi chigan/Detroit/sold/2147691-17 83-Iroquois-St-Detroit-MI-4821 4 "Sold for $390,000 on Nov 20th, 2007" Or this home: "http://www.trulia.com/homes/Mi chigan/Detroit/sold/396459-152 0-Seminole-St-Detroit-MI-48214" "Sold for $248,000 on Feb 4th, 2008" And: "the price on that house dropped A LOT" It was initially listed at $750K. When you're dealing with this market, a $50K drop is not too shabby. Yeah - there's some deals in Indian Village right now. Yeah - home values dropped. Show me a neighborhood in the region or country where home values have increased... | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 345 Registered: 11-2007 |
Not sure what your point is. I'm talking about houses that were up for sale in 2005. And what they are selling for today. Not in the last 6 months. | ||
Registeredguest Member Username: Registeredguest Post Number: 368 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Not sure what your point is. I'm talking about houses that were up for sale in 2005. And what they are selling for today. Not in the last 6 months." Enlighten us with an example... | ||
Eastsidedame Member Username: Eastsidedame Post Number: 237 Registered: 12-2006 |
Yeah, but it's a certifiable Kamper. That just makes it all the more special. | ||
Gogo Member Username: Gogo Post Number: 1425 Registered: 11-2003 |
quote: For example? Of all homes sold in IV in the past year, only one shows up for under $200k. Is this just uninformed speculation? Also can't find a single house on the market that was once $500k that is under $200k. In fact, I can find very few homes listed for $200k in IV at all. Homes SOLD in Indian Village in last year... 02/19/08 1039 Seminole $383,150 12/14/07 1438 Iroquois $360,000 10/10/07 2225 Seminole $380,000 11/20/07 1783 Iroquois $390,000 07/27/07 1503 Burns $250,000 08/29/07 1453 Iroquois $629,000 06/27/07 3524 Burns $340,000 11/01/07 3505 Burns $140,000 | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 346 Registered: 11-2007 |
I'll enlighten you in a few. I've got to dig them up. | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 982 Registered: 11-2006 |
I thought it was 799 originally | ||
Gogo Member Username: Gogo Post Number: 1426 Registered: 11-2003 |
quote: Feel free, but your original post that all homes in IV have dropped in priced from $500k to $200k doesn't hold any water given the list of homes that both Registeredguest and I could find in a few minutes. Finding one or two examples does not make for a sweeping statement like that about the entire neighborhood. | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 347 Registered: 11-2007 |
Like I said, give me some time. I have the listings from 2005 archived. I'll post when I get a chance to pull them up. How's this: "Some houses that were listed near 500K are now under 200K. Better? | ||
Gogo Member Username: Gogo Post Number: 1427 Registered: 11-2003 |
It'd be better if you could back up what you state. This is not unique to IV, Detroit, or even Michigan. You can find a house that was once listed for twice its current value anywhere USA. Finding a few homes that have been foreclosed and making a generalization about an entire neighborhood is not really very informed. Here is more info in case you haven't heard... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M ortgage_crisis | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 983 Registered: 11-2006 |
rax- why do you post here? it seems to just work you up and spew hatred and negativity. Weird. Too much time on your hands? | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 348 Registered: 11-2007 |
Hatred? I'm a resident of Detroit and I enjoy the information shared on this forum. I'm a homeowner and have a vested interest in the city. Thanks for the wikipedia link Gogo, that was really informative as well. I'll back up my statements about IV in just a little while. My partner is going through some of my work papers as we speak. (Message edited by rax on June 04, 2008) | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 350 Registered: 11-2007 |
OK, my partner went through some of our old work papers at the house and here are some figures: 2535 Seminole sold for $315,000 on 8/2/06. It is now listed at $107,150. 3418 Iroquois sold for $370,000 on 9/29/05. It is now listed at $114,900. 1073 Iroquois was listed for $600,000 in 2003. It is now listed at $284,900. | ||
Wash_man Member Username: Wash_man Post Number: 783 Registered: 05-2006 |
Are those market prices or foreclosure "short sales?" | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 351 Registered: 11-2007 |
Active Listings, Under $150k: 3418 Iroquois - $114,900 2240 Iroquois - $149,900 3508 Burns - $49,900 Sold Properties, Under $125k: 3488 Burns - $25,000 3414 Burns - $125,000 2415 Seminole - $32,000 | ||
Gogo Member Username: Gogo Post Number: 1428 Registered: 11-2003 |
Rax - You need to drive by those homes. They are in a different league than the Louis Kamper house. Not only in size, but in condition. As for 1073 Seminole, this one has been bank owned for at least 5 years. Your talking about a home owned by a bank in California listing it in a market it has no clue about then realizing its not worth that much and dumping it on a bank in New York. This has been happening for at least 5 years. Your list is basically a list of bank owned mortgage foreclosures or similar conditions. Bank owned foreclosures are typically listed at what the bank is owed for the property. In some cases it is what the previous home owners mortgage was, plus what the equity they pulled for a new boat pre mortgage crisis when banks were handing out bags of money. In other cases its the remaining balance of a foreclosed homes mortgage which has partly been paid. Foreclosed homes often have no bearing on house value, but what some bank in another state is owed from the previous homeowner that foreclosed. This is not really a list of homeowner sales. Occupied homes sold from homeowner to homeowner do not have the same statistic you are listing. You can take mortgage foreclosures anywhere and come up with all sorts of screwy numbers. | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 352 Registered: 11-2007 |
3496 Burns sold for $124,900 | ||
Sknutson Member Username: Sknutson Post Number: 1153 Registered: 03-2004 |
Anything in the 3400-3500 part of Burns is on the bleeding edge of IV. | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 354 Registered: 11-2007 |
Bleeding edge. Sure. You're right, this market is crazy. All I know is that the following IV homes are for sale (in addition to the ones I've already listed). I don't care who owns them, they are dirt cheap. 3417 Seminole is listed for $179,900 1796 Burns is listed for $172,500 3450 Seminole is listed for $163,000 1049 Seminole is listed for $144,900 (It sold for $400,000 in 2005) 1824 Seminole is listed for $129,900 3439 Seminole is listed for $99,900 1823 Burns is listed for $84,900 2940 Seminole is listed for $84,900 (It sold for $373,022 in 2007) 2471 Seminole is listed for $24,900 (It sold for $211,251 in 2005) 3496 Burns (that I mentioned above) is back on the market for $24,900 3474 Burns is listed for $23,000 (It sold for $206,000 in 2006) Man, I'd hate to own a place on Seminole, that street looks like it's in the shitter right now. | ||
Yooper Member Username: Yooper Post Number: 148 Registered: 12-2006 |
$23,000! That's less than my parents paid for their last minivan! | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 355 Registered: 11-2007 |
Yooper, I'm actually considering buying 4 houses in IV for a total of 157,700. Your parents can park their mini-van in any of my four driveways. | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 2879 Registered: 10-2003 |
Didn't this Kamper house have a fire due to a lightning strike some 5-7 years ago? And then one of the owners passed away, and the widow just couldn't do anything with it? I think it is great that someone has invested the time and money to restore it. Hope it gets a worthy owner! | ||
Registeredguest Member Username: Registeredguest Post Number: 370 Registered: 10-2003 |
"I don't care who owns them, they are dirt cheap." I think you could say that for any neighborhood in this region, if not this country. Or, maybe, they're actually fairly priced as the market has re-adjusted after all the inflated property values from 2000-2005. "Man, I'd hate to own a place on Seminole, that street looks like it's in the shitter right now." Ye-ah - spot on... Share some more knowledge, oh wise one. | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 356 Registered: 11-2007 |
Sorry, that was a little harsh. I guess I'm just excited to be able to own a home on such a renowned street for the price of a house in Roseville. | ||
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634 Post Number: 478 Registered: 10-2005 |
oh, nice Rax, now you're crapping on Roseville too? sheesh. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 2107 Registered: 11-2003 |
Rax -- the big price drop examples you list are all mortgage fraud foreclosures, not normal sales. Prices for owner-occupied homes have dropped a bit, but not that much. (Will post more about this later.) | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 357 Registered: 11-2007 |
quote: I guess this is what I was responding too. I didn't realize what the rules of the contest were. Doug - I look forward to your detailed analysis. I would like to know the difference between 1039 Seminole ($383k) and the neighboring house at 1049 Seminole ($145k). Is there a $250k "warm body" surcharge? (Message edited by rax on June 04, 2008) | ||
Registeredguest Member Username: Registeredguest Post Number: 371 Registered: 10-2003 |
"Is there a $250k 'warm body' surcharge?" Ha - actually, it's a "I am fully renovated, have a new roof, have street presence, have a new coat of paint, have a landscaped yard, have an updated and historically appropriate kitchen, have appliances, and have all of my original fixtures, wiring, copper plumbing and have not been crapped on by slumlords, un-scrupulous borrowers, absentee owners and scrappers" surcharge. | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 359 Registered: 11-2007 |
Hey, sounds like just the neighbor I'd want after I spend 380K. I guess I'm just glad that I'm buying at a good time. I'm excited to be a part of the neighborhood. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 249 Registered: 10-2006 |
This property is gorgeous, but overpriced by 100k. Move it to Bloomfield and you can get triple. | ||
Lefty2 Member Username: Lefty2 Post Number: 1372 Registered: 07-2007 |
It is a great source of info, but, Trulia can be a little misleading at achieving real arms length prices. They get a lot of their data from assessors and title companies. We all know how assessors value homes. A Bank can buy back their home at an auction and it will look like a good sales price when they just bid $1.00 over the loan amount. A better source would be "Sold Comps" from a Realtor who has access to sold homes via arms length transactions. I was at an auction on Iroquois and a big old wood colonial sold for 120K, It looked like it needed at least 100K worth of work. | ||
Hamtragedy Member Username: Hamtragedy Post Number: 165 Registered: 10-2007 |
There was a fire there. Destroyed parts of the dining room (and some cherry carvings). Silk ceiling in that room as of Jan 07 (and plaster) were not completely restored at that time. Rest of the lower level was immaculate. | ||
Eastsidedame Member Username: Eastsidedame Post Number: 245 Registered: 12-2006 |
Thanks,Lefty2. Good to know. | ||
Gogo Member Username: Gogo Post Number: 1429 Registered: 11-2003 |
quote: 1039 is owner occupied, lived in by home owners, and barely cared for by the homeowners who lived there. 1049 Seminole is bank owned, unoccupied. When you site homes that sold for $400k and are now for $200k, you need to figure out why the price drop. You will be hard pressed to find an owner occupied home in the same condition year over year that has experienced this sort of price drop. Homes that have experienced such fluctuations are those that have undergone mortgage fraud. Unscrupulous homeowners/investors that have mortgaged more for their home than what it was worth and used the money for non-home improvements like vacation, pay off debt, boat or down payment on another house. A second factor is the homes that have been foreclosed, that are owned by banks and unoccupied. The property may have been worth $400k when it was foreclosed, but banks in another state and far from the property who do not pay attention to their property leave the home at risk of copper theft, which then reduces the property of the house. When you site a home that sold for $400k, and is now selling for $200k, its most likely because (1) that is all the bank is owed for that property (2) the bank let it sit empty and either water pipes burst, they didn't properly winterize the home, or it was subject to theft. None of these examples, are comparable to the Louis Kamper home, or the majority of owner occupied homes that have sold in the neighborhood. Like I already said this is not just an issue for IV, Detroit or Michigan. Nor is it a reflection on the value of homes that have remained in good condition and not been subject to mortgage fraud or foreclosures. The homes that have sold by owners, and not transferred from bank to bank (as many of your examples have) do not show the type of drop in value you have implied. | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 360 Registered: 11-2007 |
You said: quote: I said: quote: Your explanation obviously makes sense, but doesn't change the facts. How many more of the "owner occupied" homes will end up the same way in the next 2 years? As long as the taxes in IV and Boston Edison remain ridiculously high, my guess is that you are going to see double what is listed above. | ||
Gogo Member Username: Gogo Post Number: 1430 Registered: 11-2003 |
quote: These neighborhoods were recently designated NEZ, and taxes have gone down quite a bit. I didn't realize you were looking at homes transferred from bank to bank, or foreclosures. These have little bearing on comparable home values. They aren't even used by Zillow or other website that determine home values for this very reason. To then make a sweeping statement about the home values of the entire neighborhood based on these type of examples, is just not thorough or accurate. | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 361 Registered: 11-2007 |
Again, my apologies, I didn't know what rules you were going to set before I made my initial post. I guess my sweeping statement was as irresponsible as yours. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 250 Registered: 10-2006 |
Um, foreclosures count as home sales. The claim that they shouldn't be counted because you don't like the low sales prices is ridiculous. The fact is that a large number of Indian Village homes are foreclosed, and are being sold for dirt-cheap prices. | ||
Gogo Member Username: Gogo Post Number: 1431 Registered: 11-2003 |
quote: quote: I have not come across a bank or appraiser or website that calculates home values that uses foreclosures in their calculations for home values. In both of the homes I have bought in the past, neither bank nor appraiser used any nearby foreclosures in calculating what the home I was buying was worth. If thats what you use, thats fine, I was going by what is typically used by home appraisers. The topic of this thread is the Louis Kamper home. So I was basing my estimates on the homes value by how a home appraiser would calculate. I still think the price is too much, but I think your statements are way off as well if you are just going to look at home foreclosures. | ||
Crawford Member Username: Crawford Post Number: 251 Registered: 10-2006 |
"I have not come across a bank or appraiser or website that calculates home values that uses foreclosures in their calculations for home values. In both of the homes I have bought in the past, neither bank nor appraiser used any nearby foreclosures in calculating what the home I was buying was worth. If thats what you use, thats fine, I was going by what is typically used by home appraisers." That's not what you claimed. You claimed that foreclosures shouldn't count in overall sales prices of a given neighborhood (they always count), not whether or not they should be grouped in with all types of sales when doing specific housing comps. It's a fact that tons of homes are available in Indian Village for under $200,000. That doesn't mean a foreclosed, stripped home is used as a comp for an immaculate home. If you are talking about the overall Indian Village market, there are probably as many (or more) foreclosed homes than immaculate homes, so it is ridiculous to ignore this segment of the sales market. | ||
Mwilbert Member Username: Mwilbert Post Number: 245 Registered: 11-2007 |
I think we can take for granted based upon recent history that many common appraisal practices are not sound. Certainly foreclosures may not be the best comps, but ignoring them completely is foolish, particularly when there are large numbers of them. | ||
Lodgedodger Member Username: Lodgedodger Post Number: 41 Registered: 05-2008 |
I believe 1500 Seminole is also a Kamper house. My favorite is 2535 Seminole. | ||
Gogo Member Username: Gogo Post Number: 1432 Registered: 11-2003 |
quote: Whatever. This is completely stupid. Any home appraiser or house value calculator website does not take into account foreclosed homes. If you want to, that's fine. I never say they shouldn't. I said they aren't use to calculate a homes value, particularly the house that his thread is about. If that is what Rax and you want to use to calculate a home value fine. I was using what most home appraisers use, which are houses in comparable condition and situation. If you want to use foreclosures and homes on the fringes of the neighborhood to assess a the Louis Kamper home value, then that would explain or differences in opinions. Reread the thread, you'll see that Rax made a statement that all the homes in IV have gone from $500k to $200k, using almost any home appraisal website, you will see none of the foreclosures he sited. That is because they are not used in calculating home values by these websites. If that is how he calculates home value, then that is fine, it would explain our different viewpoints. The subject of this thread is the Louis Kamper house. Pulling the list of homes he did, is like comparing pineapples to door knobs. The list of homes I listed, are what a typical home appraiser would use for their comps. if anything, this only shows that despite homes foreclosures selling for $200k, there are still quite a number of homes in IV selling for $300-500k. Good news for IV. | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 374 Registered: 11-2007 |
Like I said, my sincerest apologies for the careless, sweeping generalization. Either way, you said you could find very few any homes for sale under 200K in IV. I found about 14 without doing much research. Good news for IV indeed. It will be Boston-Edison in 10 years. | ||
Gogo Member Username: Gogo Post Number: 1433 Registered: 11-2003 |
I already explained how home foreclosuers values are determined. How they are sold from bank to bank in other states. I provided a link on the mortgage crisis for you to educate yourself. Your obviously not interested in understanding any of it. Besides your original statement that homes selling for $500k are now selling for under $200k couldn't even be backed with one example. | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 375 Registered: 11-2007 |
We can agree to disagree on this. Fine by me. I agree with Crawford and Mwilbert. What your IV house appraises for, and what it sells for is going to be pretty different. If you think the foreclosures aren't effecting that, I think you're wrong. When I can buy a house in IV for less than half of what I could've 3 years ago, you got problems. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 2545 Registered: 06-2004 |
quote: Would you like to look at the comps that they pulled for my house on Parker that I put on the market in 2006 (incidentally, using the owner of the Kamper house as my agent)? Foreclosed properties, gutted properties, as well as meticulously preserved properties. And I had 3 different appraisals performed. When you live in a market that doesn't have anything sell - the appraisers use what they can to find comps. As for the Kamper house -- they did a great job on it, but last time I was there, they had just had all of the planters stolen off of their porch in the middle of the day. Was somebody trying to get mother's day presents? Living in a beautiful house is one thing, living there with children when you can't even leave plants on your porch (a porch that is well prtoected from the street) is a whole different matter. Good news for I.V. indeed -- families trying to make a difference are being chased off. Sweet. | ||
Rax Member Username: Rax Post Number: 376 Registered: 11-2007 |
Nice post, Dabirch. | ||
Yooper Member Username: Yooper Post Number: 152 Registered: 12-2006 |
Wait, so can I buy a house in Indian Village for less than a price of a minivan or not? | ||
Bigglenlake Member Username: Bigglenlake Post Number: 34 Registered: 05-2008 |
I mentioned housing prices in Detroit as opposed to New York or Chicago to the lovely Ms. BigGlenLake the other evening. I spent the night on the couch. Dabirch is exactly right, and Rax seems to be on the right track as well. Denying that "foreclosures" affect the prices of other homes in the area is simply asinine. Living with your "Head In The Sand" does nothing to change reality. Oh, but the Redwings won, all is well. Moderator, please cross post to DY "Alternate reality" thread please. |
