 
Dtowncitylover
Member
Username: Dtowncitylover
Post Number: 321
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2008 - 11:29 am: |    |
There is proposed downriver commuter rail to Monroe. |
Stromberg2
Member
Username: Stromberg2
Post Number: 118
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2008 - 4:11 pm: | |
^^^^^
There is, I live in Monroe, where did you see that?
Stromberg2 |
Dtowncitylover
Member
Username: Dtowncitylover
Post Number: 322
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2008 - 4:32 pm: | |
It's in the proposed regional transit plan. Read the article by metromedia above and you will see. |
Stromberg2
Member
Username: Stromberg2
Post Number: 119
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2008 - 6:22 pm: | |
Thanks, Dtowncitylover!
Stromberg2 |
Dtowncitylover
Member
Username: Dtowncitylover
Post Number: 323
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Friday, September 26, 2008 - 7:44 pm: | |
No problem Stromberg2, I read that article religiously. |
Parkguy
Member
Username: Parkguy
Post Number: 330
Registered: 04-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2008 - 4:49 pm: | |
The DTOGS study group decided that BRT was almost the only choice for anything more than enhanced regular bus service on Gratiot because of the huge expense in rail construction costs along that corridor... overpasses, bridges, new right-of-way, etc. |
Tkelly1986
Member
Username: Tkelly1986
Post Number: 462
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2008 - 6:00 pm: | |
I am interested in the Metro Airport line (down Michigan). This seems like a must have for the system and hopefully can have a quick turnaround once the Woodward line is in place. Would anyone like to guess the rout this would take? Could they use the I-94 median? I looked at google maps and saw there were freight lines that take a straight shot there (and connect with Michigan at an overpass), but I assume that would not be feasible, as there is no room to add two tracks along that right away. |
Melocoton
Member
Username: Melocoton
Post Number: 41
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2008 - 6:54 pm: | |
One issue of concern for me:
The plan as summarized at http://www.metromodemedia.com/ devnews/regionaltransitdetails 0086.aspx refers only to the privatized Woodward Light Rail plan, the one that goes only to Grand Blvd. Has this surpassed the DTOGS (hope I have the acronym right) plan? I really hope not; first of all, I'm really skeptical about private public transportation. Mainly, though, the DTOGS light rail train to 8 Mile Rd was much more ambitious, much more comprehensive, and much more likely to get heavy use than a train that goes only to Grand Blvd. |
Tkelly1986
Member
Username: Tkelly1986
Post Number: 463
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2008 - 7:08 pm: | |
A random question: is the track gauge used for the Woodward Light Rail comparable to the People Mover track gauge? Could the People Mover system be revamped to use the same cars? |
Mwilbert
Member
Username: Mwilbert
Post Number: 403
Registered: 11-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2008 - 7:28 pm: | |
The People Mover is standard-gauge. However, the people mover is not compatible with anything else, and it is highly unlikely you could retrofit it to use other equipment. I don't even see why you would try. |
Ljbad89
Member
Username: Ljbad89
Post Number: 60
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2008 - 8:27 pm: | |
Melocoton: If I remember rightly, a list of plans by certain years said extending Woodward light rail in increments up to Pontiac by a certain date was the goal. So the assumption would be that even if it was excluded in the list you saw, there are still plans to extend light rail past 8 Mile and beyond.
The way I see it, Hertel and his team want to build the 3-mile light rail down Woodward quickly so that it can be ready by the time the Ann Arbor - Detroit commuter rail project starts. I can imagine in the future that the TRAIL project and DTOGS project will be consolidated into one light rail line. |
Rbdetsport
Member
Username: Rbdetsport
Post Number: 519
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, September 27, 2008 - 10:36 pm: | |
can someone who was at the open house please explain what types of things they saw? |
Tkelly1986
Member
Username: Tkelly1986
Post Number: 464
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2008 - 12:14 pm: | |
If the TRAIL and the DTOGS project consolidate, is it possible the project could expand? Such as into Ferndale or all the way to the Detroit Zoo? |
Dtowncitylover
Member
Username: Dtowncitylover
Post Number: 324
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2008 - 2:23 pm: | |
Yes, by 2015 or 2020, I forget, the Woodward line is supposed to be up to 11 Mile. Read the article by metromedia above. |
Tkelly1986
Member
Username: Tkelly1986
Post Number: 465
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2008 - 4:05 pm: | |
I should have been more clear, I am talking about expansion within the first step. Not waiting till 2015 or 2020. Thus, as the first step goes to 8 mile, could consolidation allow the first step to reach the Detroit Zoo? |
Dtowncitylover
Member
Username: Dtowncitylover
Post Number: 325
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2008 - 4:52 pm: | |
No, unfortunately, TRAIL and DTOGS don't extend past Detroit city limits. |
Bearinabox
Member
Username: Bearinabox
Post Number: 889
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, September 28, 2008 - 5:12 pm: | |
My personal opinion, and I could well be wrong, is that it's prudent to limit this to Detroit proper to start with. Too many good plans have been killed by regional infighting, and I think it needs to be proven successful before we can risk inviting Brooks to the table. |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 771
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Monday, September 29, 2008 - 10:44 pm: | |
Why does Brooks have to be at the table? Why can't service go to Ferndale or Royal Oak with local government support? There's nothing legally that would prevent an authority that could include Oak. Co. communities but not the county proper. |
Dtowncitylover
Member
Username: Dtowncitylover
Post Number: 332
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2008 - 6:32 pm: | |
I'm wondering why the DTOGS website is down? Can someone just check and see that I'm not the only one experiencing this
www.dtogs.com
is the address. |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 779
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, October 05, 2008 - 11:24 pm: | |
works fine |
J_to_the_jeremy
Member
Username: J_to_the_jeremy
Post Number: 99
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 10:25 am: | |
The problem with this plan is that it supports the private trolley line to Grand Blvd. As a first step, the DTOGS LRT to 8 Mile would be so much more effective. Think about it. Who would even ride a line that goes essentially from downtown to downtown? And the fact that the private plan uses curb-loading trolleys with more stops and slower speeds means that they will essentially become glorified buses. It's not likely or useful for that type of rail to be extended any farther. An actual light rail line to 8 Mile would create an alternative for people living in neighborhoods north of New Center, and would be seen as a positive gesture towards the neighborhoods and suburbs.
Remember, most of the riders filling those often talked about Woodward buses don't come from the CBD or New Center. There's no reason they would ride the private plan's trolleys from downtown to downtown. |
Dtowncitylover
Member
Username: Dtowncitylover
Post Number: 334
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Monday, October 06, 2008 - 11:38 am: | |
Yeah, Novine. It didn't work for a couple of hours. No biggie, but thanks for answering that question! |
Transitrider
Member
Username: Transitrider
Post Number: 77
Registered: 01-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2008 - 12:08 am: | |
Saw the RTCC plan last week? What did you think? Didn't get to see it but want to hear more about it? Discuss Tuesday night at TRU Fall General Meeting (open to the public)
TRU Fall Meeting - Tuesday, Oct 7, 6:30pm
Come to our Fall Meeting!
It’s been a while since we held a regular TRU member meeting. This spring and summer, we instead held outreach meetings in Oakland, Macomb and western Wayne Counties, with our friends at MOSES. So join us at our fall meeting!
Don’t miss this meeting and your opportunity to:
Get updates on top transit issues and TRU activities,
Share your thoughts on the proposed regional transit plan, and
Help develop a plan to respond to and support the transit plan.
Tuesday, Oct. 7, 6:30pm
Guardian Building lower mezzanine
500 Griswold, in downtown Detroit
Light dinner provided. Donation requested ($5 members, $10 others) |
Rbdetsport
Member
Username: Rbdetsport
Post Number: 525
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2008 - 10:12 pm: | |
did anyone go to the meeting last night? if so, what was said? thanks |
Andylinn
Member
Username: Andylinn
Post Number: 1035
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 1:31 am: | |
Check this out: State bill introduced regarding private proposal... is this awesome shit REALLY happening in our city? FINALLY
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/a rticle/20080930/FREE/809309949 /-1
can I hear a whoop? can I hear a Yipeee!? |
Dtowncitylover
Member
Username: Dtowncitylover
Post Number: 341
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 9:14 am: | |
Yipeee!!! Why does the article mention that Woodward is a state highway? I know it is (M-1), but does that effect anything? |
Tkelly1986
Member
Username: Tkelly1986
Post Number: 466
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 10:46 am: | |
Could the private and public plans still merge or is this a signal that won't happen. Furthermore, could they still merge even after a bill is signed? |
J_to_the_jeremy
Member
Username: J_to_the_jeremy
Post Number: 105
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 11:59 am: | |
I hope they can, because the private plan is not going to be as effective as people think. DDOT has been communicating with MDOT about their Light Rail proposal for a while now, while the private plan has made almost no info open to the public. So it's hard to know if they can merge. The problem is they're promoting fundamentally different types of rail. The private plan are using streetcars that load on the side of the road, and the Public plan is using center-of-road Light rail that is faster and has the capability to extend more efficiently. Not to mention the significantly shorter length (3 vs 8 miles) of the private plan, with the same number of stations. (13 for both plans)
I wish people didn't just assume that the only positive developments in this city will come from the private sector. DDOT is just as far in making their plan happen, and I think these 2 competing plans will conflict before they compromise. |
Dtowncitylover
Member
Username: Dtowncitylover
Post Number: 342
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 12:20 pm: | |
I still think that they can be compatable. DTOGS can have their plan above New Center and TRAIL can have theirs below. I love the idea of streetcars, light rail is also cool. |
J_to_the_jeremy
Member
Username: J_to_the_jeremy
Post Number: 106
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 12:36 pm: | |
That would create a mandatory transfer at New Center for people wanting to ride farther up Woodward, which might not go over too well. |
Professorscott
Member
Username: Professorscott
Post Number: 1659
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 12:56 pm: | |
If you go to semcog.org and look at the RTCC document which is posted there, you will see that the idea of LRT only as far as New Center is by design temporary. The RTCC plan calls for LRT along Woodward to at least 11 Mile Road by the year 2015.
There is a wealth of other information in the document as well. If you went to the public meetings, it is a compilation of the posters you saw there. If you didn't go, here's a chance to see the plan. |
Tkelly1986
Member
Username: Tkelly1986
Post Number: 469
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2008 - 10:22 pm: | |
If this indeed expanded to 11 mile, what would the natural ending point be? Furthermore, would it be best for future extension to go via Woodward to Birmingham or veer off to Royal Oak? |
Dtowncitylover
Member
Username: Dtowncitylover
Post Number: 363
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Monday, October 20, 2008 - 9:46 pm: | |
Will DDOT and SMART have to reorganize when this becomes a reality? Will the DDOT's name change? My I suggest, DTC or DTA (Detroit Transit Commission or Authority). |
Russix
Member
Username: Russix
Post Number: 142
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 4:17 pm: | |
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/a rticle/20080930/FREE/809309949 /-1
After so many years of waiting for this its so sad to see it mature into another one of our failures. I can't wait to catch a ride on this and watch buses race past it. BOOOOOO TRAIL!!! 23 stations! NO People Mover 2.0!! |
Eric_c
Member
Username: Eric_c
Post Number: 1292
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 5:38 pm: | |
I'm sorry...where in your link does it specify twenty-three stations? What did I miss? |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 5958
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 5:46 pm: | |
quote:The Woodward plans each call for future expansion, such as along Gratiot and Michigan avenues.
The private plan has been closely guarded since first reported on by Crain’s in February.
Peter Karmanos Jr., founder of Detroit-based software maker Compuware Corp., and Mike Ilitch, owner of the Detroit Tigers and Detroit Red Wings and co-founder of Little Caesars Pizza, are the most recent names confirmed among the cadre of influential backers that have committed undisclosed sums to construction of the private Woodward loop.
They join Penske Corp.’s Roger Penske and Quicken Loans/Rock Financial found Dan Gilbert as those known to back the proposal.
In July, the Wayne State University Board of Governors authorized a $3 million, 10-year deal to advertise on one of the line’s 23 stations.
Such advertising counts among the funding avenues for the proposal, which is estimated to require a $4.2 million to $5.6 million annual operating subsidy.
Up to $50 million from the Troy-based Kresge Foundation has also reportedly been pledged to the project, which is believed to have nearly 90 percent of its funding lined up. |
W_chicago
Member
Username: W_chicago
Post Number: 55
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 6:22 pm: | |
For transit, I don't think it's wise to consider a project based on demand alone. I think a lot of demand is creating by providing a lot of supply. A huge reason why so many of Detroit's dense old urban corridors have not been reoccupied is the lack of transit. I think most people would rather live in a place with transit right now, than move someplace that doesn't and hope that it comes soon.
Following this logic, I think a more aggressive transit policy makes sense. Develop light-rail on at least the 6 major corridors leading into Downtown: Woodward, Michigan, Gratiot Jefferson, Grand River, Fort. Then build light-rail or street cars on smaller corridors like Warren or Mack. All bus routes will connect to rail, which will in turn dramatically improve bus service.
I understand the limitations due to funding and just plain politics. But we need to come together as a city and as a region and demand from our local, state, and national leaders that we need comprehensive and quality mass transit! |
Russix
Member
Username: Russix
Post Number: 143
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 8:43 pm: | |
The TRAIL system does not step up to fill the void of mass transit. It's curb side lanes and close proximity stops lend itself the term tourist train or connecting service. TRAIL would be more appropriate running on Cass Ave and John R. It would logically be in closer proximity to the corporations and private interests that wish to fund it and would not interfere/destroy DTOGS. |
Dtowncitylover
Member
Username: Dtowncitylover
Post Number: 367
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 8:58 pm: | |
Someone needs to go over to Hertel's house and demand he partner with DTOGS.
But the idea he has for a streetcar is much different than light rail. The modern streetcar is, i think, smaller in car size than the light rail, but of course it doesn't make it right NOT to partner together. |
Ljbad89
Member
Username: Ljbad89
Post Number: 63
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 9:23 pm: | |
I think Hertel's way of thinking is: With the DTOGS proposal, it wouldn't be up and running until 2013 due to the government funding process. With his private, locally-funded plan, it could be running in late 2010 to coincide with the Detroit - Ann Arbor Rail Project. Personally, I would rather see median-running trains instead of curbside. Dangerous? If that's the case, then why allow people to cross the street at all? |
J_to_the_jeremy
Member
Username: J_to_the_jeremy
Post Number: 116
Registered: 03-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 9:35 pm: | |
After going to the Model D speaker series tonight, it was clear that Hertel still looks at the DTOGS proposal in a negative light. Although a DDOT representative shared the stage with him during a q and a session, Hertel barely acknowledged their plan, except to say that they could never secure funding since it wasn't a private business venture.
Why can't we get along? |
Thecarl
Member
Username: Thecarl
Post Number: 1374
Registered: 04-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 12:23 am: | |
i just want to add my historically correct, 100% accurate opinion: real mass transit in detroit = no way. it's just a scam for people who are friends of politicians, so they can write proposals and then attend cocktail parties, and then express their disdain for the republican party through interpretive dance. |
Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit
Post Number: 2036
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 4:46 pm: | |
Would mass transit significantly lower insurance rates in Detroit?
It has been said (on here) that part of the insurance problem is that so many people are driving around without insurance.
If you can't afford it, you have no real options here (and there is a decent amount of low income people in the city limits). Giving those people another option should help diminish that problem, correct?
Of course, less drivers in a given community, should also mean less potential problems/claims. |
Detroitnerd
Member
Username: Detroitnerd
Post Number: 3481
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 4:57 pm: | |
Sean: You're assuming that insurance rates are actually based on the likelihood of something bad happening to your car. They're really not, IMHO. They're based on which areas have the least political pull. In areas that are poorly represented, where people can't raise holy hell, that's where they'll stick it to you. |
Russix
Member
Username: Russix
Post Number: 146
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, October 23, 2008 - 6:45 pm: | |
Would it be possible for DTOGS to divide the construction into phases. They could focus on building the stations between Grand Blvd. and Grand Circus Park People Mover station, undercut the TRAIL plan in costs(less track, less stations, less curb modifications) and sell advertising rights to the stations to lower costs further. I think around $75 million we could get local, state, and federal funding much faster than $375 million. |
Russix
Member
Username: Russix
Post Number: 147
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, October 26, 2008 - 8:00 pm: | |
I received an email from an URS project manager:
"We are currently putting together our application to enter into preliminary engineering. This will allow us to further the design of the LRT system on Woodward Avenue. Additionally, at this time we are preparing an environmental impact statement and shortly we will be having some public meetings for everyone to participate in the LRT planning process. The dates of those meetings are being finalized right now.
Finally, we will be having a downtown alignment public open house on Tuesday, November 18th to show a couple of options for the LRT route in downtown and to get your comments. There will be an afternoon meeting at the Guardian Building and an evening meeting at the YMCA on Broadway in downtown.
We hope that you can join us for all of these meetings.
Please continue to support us. We appreciate it.
Thanks again."
Guess we will have to wait till Nov. 18th to find out. A final thought on this TRAIL plan, they want to build it without any public input, but they want to hold the rights to advertising and station naming, and they want the public to pay for its operation. Isn't that taxation without representation? |
Novine
Member
Username: Novine
Post Number: 828
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2008 - 11:41 am: | |
Light-rail can turn into money train
Homes near light-rail lines tend to increase in value
http://www.denverpost.com/news /ci_10850014 |
Dtowncitylover
Member
Username: Dtowncitylover
Post Number: 390
Registered: 02-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 12:32 am: | |
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/a rticle/20081114/FREE/811149966
yes, from the other thread. But this seemed like an appropriate thread too!
From that article:
"There are currently two Woodward transit plans, one a privately funded $103 million project and the other a $372 million proposal by the Detroit Department of Transportation, that are expected to merge in 2009."
THANK GOD! |
Sean_of_detroit
Member
Username: Sean_of_detroit
Post Number: 2205
Registered: 03-2008
| | Posted on Saturday, November 15, 2008 - 5:25 am: | |
Detroitnerd,
That sounds pretty discriminatory and illegal, doesn't it?
Change what I said to "Metro Detroit". Even if that was true, we are talking about some higher income areas getting better transit too. Beyond auto insurance, auto fatalities, drunk driving, and crashes in general should be greatly reduced (or so it appears on the surface). |
Rbdetsport
Member
Username: Rbdetsport
Post Number: 540
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, November 30, 2008 - 10:50 am: | |
Here is the video that was shown on transit at the last SEMCOG meeting.
http://www.semcog.org/GetOnBoa rd.aspx |
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