  Lodgedodger Member Username: Lodgedodger Post Number: 903 Registered: 05-2008 |
This really worries me. I know there are so many other pressing problems, but to let a part of our history go breaks my heart. http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20081115/M ETRO/811150428 | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 2199 Registered: 03-2008 |
I'm not into history as much as many of the people on this site, but it seems like Fort Wayne could easily be part of an extended Western Riverwalk, right? | ||
Bobl Member Username: Bobl Post Number: 203 Registered: 07-2008 |
All of my memories of Fort Wayne are not fond ones. It is where I, and thousands of others, were sent for preinduction physicals when cannon fodder was needed in Vietnam. A friend tells a story of three acquaintances, who, after a night of heavy drinking, decided to join the fight. Two were gung-ho. The third was reluctant but went along. You guessed it: The last sight of the reluctant one was his rather surprised look as he was bused away to serve, while the other two, who were rejected, looked on. Good news is that he survived.... (Message edited by Bobl on November 15, 2008) | ||
Townonenorth Member Username: Townonenorth Post Number: 353 Registered: 10-2007 |
I think it's a travesty. Getting this tax passed in 1996 should have supplied the Fort with what it needed. It should be on the National Register of Historic Places, if it isn't already. What buildings received the 2 million heating and cooling? | ||
Davemarc Member Username: Davemarc Post Number: 106 Registered: 06-2008 |
I've been working down there for the last couple of weeks,Its really to bad. | ||
Dtroit Member Username: Dtroit Post Number: 22 Registered: 03-2007 |
Its great to see that volunteers have made it there mission to help restore Fort Wayne. I wish it was a state historic park or operated by the National Park Service. I don't know why anyone would ever have thought a city being the caretaker of a piece of our nations military past was a good idea. I they don't already, I hope someone starts applying for grants to help fund the effort. I cannot imagine a new tax being past... | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 556 Registered: 10-2005 |
Fort Wayne is a travesty for Detroit and Michigan. Everytime I return, it's the first place I visit to see if anything has changed-not. What are the remedies? And, do people even care if it falls apart? I know there is a preservation group but it seems is though they are fighting a brick wall. Such a shame. | ||
Crystal Member Username: Crystal Post Number: 343 Registered: 05-2007 |
Many DYes'ers, including yours truly, are members of the Historic Fort Wayne Coalition. The Coalition is a dedicated, vibrant group of volunteers giving thousands of hours per year to the Fort. You read that right: thousands! As of October 1, over 2500 hours have been donated to the Fort this year alone. http://www.historicfortwayneco alition.com | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 469 Registered: 04-2008 |
Good points, Townonenorth and Dtroit: How are other historic forts throughout the country funded? I would have thought they were nationally funded, rather than locally. | ||
Hubbardfarmer Member Username: Hubbardfarmer Post Number: 14 Registered: 10-2008 |
I took many trips to Fort Wayne as a kid with my family in the '70s. Growing up in SW Detroit, FW was close to home and about as cheap a good time as you could find for a family of five. I remember being amazed that such an entirely different environment could exist so close to my dense urban neighborhood. I felt transported to a different world whenever I was in the fort. I hope it gets the TLC it needs before it's too late. | ||
Townonenorth Member Username: Townonenorth Post Number: 355 Registered: 10-2007 |
I did a little checking, the Fort IS listed on the National Register of Historic Places (as of 1971). Unfortunately, it's not listed as being nationaly significant, so is not elegible for the America's Treasures Program. (Message edited by townonenorth on November 15, 2008) | ||
Savoyard Member Username: Savoyard Post Number: 4 Registered: 08-2008 |
I've been meaning to ask this for months now. I drive by FW almost every day. For most of the Summer, there was heavy equipment working right next to the old canteen. Backhoes and large shovels, with orange fencing around it. Anyone know what was going on? Also, I remember the old bell from City Hall had been moved to near the parking lot (moved from its indignant spot in a debris-strewn field on the grounds) but now I see it's not there. What happened to it? I have nightmares of scrappers stealing it ... | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 558 Registered: 10-2005 |
I am a bit confused. Are the Historic Fort Wayne Coalition and the Historic Fort Wayne Preservation Group one in the same or two separate entities? If any property in the city should be handed over to the state to operate and manage, it seems that Fort Wayne would top the list. | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 473 Registered: 04-2008 |
To satisfy my curiosity, I did a "Google search" to see how other historic forts around the country are funded. Of the 30 or so I looked at, none were funded by a city. What gives (i.e. why is Fort Wayne run by the City of Detroit)? | ||
Usnsubvet77 Member Username: Usnsubvet77 Post Number: 115 Registered: 07-2007 |
To answer a few questions regarding the Historic Fort Wayne Coalition and/or Fort Wayne... The 1st City Hall bell has been moved from its place in the parking lot to the front of the 1905 Guardhouse (1st building you see on the left of the main gate). No scrappers have it. Secondly, as a member of the Coalition for over 3 years and Executive Secretary-Elect (2009-2010), I have never heard of a Historic Fort Wayne Preservation group. There have been a few that have existed (such as the Home Guard, the Friends of Fort Wayne, etc). Most or all of which have disbanded or are inactive due for one reason or another. Thirdly, the backhoes and heavy equipment were repairing a sewer main, if memory serves me correctly. Lastly, Fort Wayne is run by the City based on various lease agreements made with the Federal Gov't in the 1920's, 1950's and 1970's as the property was gradually given to the City. These lease agreements involve several deed restrictions as to what the City can do with the property without Federal approval. Granted, at each of these times, the finances of the City and the community environment around the Fort were quite different. Unfortunately, unless someone on this site who knows of where the State of Michigan has more money than they are saying, I do not see the state providing any better care of the Fort than the City. I reference the Ulysses S. Grant home that is currently in the State Fairgrounds property for example (owned by the "state" but not very well kept)- google that. All we can do now until we complete our business plan to start grant applications (thanks to some D-yes'ers) is to assist the City to maintain an enormous piece of land and history as the Coalition has done for going on 7 years. I hope that this article has peaked interest in the Fort. VISIT the Fort, HELP the Fort. As a shameless plug, the Historic Fort Wayne Coalition is hosting it's first Christmas event - "I'll be Home for Christmas". This is an event that will be a guided tour of the Fort through the 1860's, 1890's, 1910's and 1940's eras. It is an event to show the visitors how Christmas was viewed through the eyes of the men who served there during these times. Tickets are VERY reasonable, if not ridiculously cheap. $5 per car for secured parking, and $3 admission for the guided tour. There is also a group rate, but the cost escapes me at the moment. The event will be on December 13 in two sessions. First session, 2:00pm - 5:00pm. Second session from 6:30pm - 9:30pm. For more information about the Coalition, the Fort, the progress and the Christmas event visit our website. www.historicfortwaynecoalition .com Thomas Steele Historic Fort Wayne Coalition Executive Board - Secretary-Elect Projects Committee - Secretary Grants/Funding - Team Leader | ||
Sumas Member Username: Sumas Post Number: 356 Registered: 01-2008 |
A few years back, the historic Moross House was put on the selling block by our dear city. The reason cited was that monies were needed to restore historic Fort Wayne and it was a priority. In the same time frame the city also dumped the Aquarium on Belle Isle. Voters passed a millage to restore Fort Wayne. Where did all this money go? | ||
Eriedearie Member Username: Eriedearie Post Number: 4003 Registered: 08-2007 |
Usnsubvet77 - Thanks for posting about the Christmas event! Depending on the weather that day, we will plan on being there and we'll bring our grandson with us. We will all get a good history lesson. I'm looking forward to it already. | ||
Kryptonite Member Username: Kryptonite Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2008 |
Wow, yes, a Christmas event at Fort Wayne does sound cool. Thanks for the heads-up. | ||
Jacqueline Member Username: Jacqueline Post Number: 7 Registered: 08-2008 |
The HFW Preservation Group was very active before HFW was closed in the 70s. When the HFW Coalition was formed, the auxiliaries and other HFW support groups of the Fort joined the Coalition. The Fort was operated by the Detroit Historical Department until 2006 at which time the City spun off the DHD to the Detroit Historical Society and since the DHS did not want the Fort, it was turned over to the City Parks and Recreation Department. The millage that was passed was controlled by Wayne County and most of it was used by Wayne County to fund the building and renovation of Wayne County parks, Chandler Park being one of these. The Fort ended up with very little of the money. When the Historic Moross House was sold, the money was never meant to be used for the Fort. It is in a poor part of town and required daily vigilance as it was constantly being broken into. As Kilpatrick was cutting the DHD budget and, as a result staff, it was sold to an attorney who promised to ensure the historic significance was kept intact. In 2002, or around that time, the Director of the DHD had sent a proposal to Carl Levin in hopes of obtaining funding to keep the Fort open and to provide funds for the upkeep of the Fort. Kilpatrick put a stop to that by saying that no one was to submit a proposal to the Federal Government without this approval. That was the end of that. | ||
Toolbox Member Username: Toolbox Post Number: 1177 Registered: 10-2003 |
How about doing something like is being done at The Presidio in San Francisco? This is a program run by the NPS. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 7566 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thanks for all the info folks! Toolbox, I just recently saw an article on The Presidio, it's a shame Fort Wayne can't be funded and preserved like that. Also, I think that the Grant House at the State Fair Grounds should be donated to Greenfield Village. It's the best way to safeguard its' future. Finally... where exactly is the Moross House? Is the 1763 wood built house shown in W. Hawkins Ferry book "Buildings of Old Detroit" still intact? Or are we talking about a different Moross House? | ||
Jacqueline Member Username: Jacqueline Post Number: 8 Registered: 08-2008 |
The Moross House that the DHD managed was the oldest standing brick house in Detroit and is location on Jefferson. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M oross_House. Its an old article, but explains the House. Under the direction of the former Director when the DHD still managed HFW, conversations with the NPS, as well as other Governmental agencies, were under way. I do not believe the City Parks and Recreation Department has the knowledge nor the incentive to do anything more than keep it as a recreational facility. The Coalition works hard to maintain what they can but, without outside financing, the cost to keep the Fort in good condition is prohibitive. The Presidio, there is a fort in the east and one in the south (off hand I do not remember their names) that were also examples of what could be done to fund HFW, was one of the examples the former Director of DHD was pursing when the DHD was closed. | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 559 Registered: 10-2005 |
Given all the history associated with the fort along with Detroit's historic relevance being founded way before so many other places, I wonder if Fort Wayne would be applicable for National Park Status? Fort McHenry in Baltimore: http://www.nps.gov/fomc/ | ||
Townonenorth Member Username: Townonenorth Post Number: 390 Registered: 10-2007 |
A national park status would be nice, it would solve a lot of issues. I'd wonder how a group would apply for something like that. | ||
Sumas Member Username: Sumas Post Number: 385 Registered: 01-2008 |
The historic Moross house was donated to the city many years ago. It was in need of renovation. The Detroit Garden Center found the funding to renovate and had a long term cheap lease. The garden center functioned as free docents. Because it was deemed a museum, we didn't even have full use of the facilities. The Moross family donated pictures and other family artifacts. When the long term lease expired, the city, under the auspices of the city appointed curator raised the lease to a ridulous amount. They wanted us gone. They descended one day and took all the donated pieces, some no doubt priceless. We were evicted and the building was sold at a nominal fee. I admit to a little curiousity as to what became of the "seized" artifacts. The excuse at the time was the curator of the historical institute wanted to expend more efforts on historic Fort Wayne. I'll bet the curator now owns some mighty fine pieces of antique furniture. I totally support efforts to maintain Fort Wayne, but get real people, the city would prefer to sell it cheap on a family/friends program for more crappy riverfront development. | ||
Jacqueline Member Username: Jacqueline Post Number: 10 Registered: 08-2008 |
Sumas get real. The Detroit Garden Center did not have funds for renovations. The Garden Center did submit an unrealistic proposal, but their staff did not have the knowledge nor expertise to follow through. The City at this time was already cutting funding and, as the Garden Center personnel only opened the House on a part-time basis, the break ins, the alarm system wires being cut, doors and windows being broken, the trash that needed to be picked up on a daily basis, the upkeep was costing more per year than the revenue obtained from the Garden Center and the DHD didn't have the funds to continue operations of the House. The free docents you speak of only worked at the Garden Center at the Moross House. As for the artifacts, they belonged to the City's collections and are now in the Collections where they should be. As stated previously, the sale of the House had nothing to do with HFW. As the Detroit Garden Center personnel were bitter about loosing their lease, I guess they decided spreading lies was appropriate. By the way, curator's do not have the authority to raise leases and/or determine what should be sold. | ||
Lonelycloud Member Username: Lonelycloud Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2008 |
I thought the Detroit Historical Museum restored and provided some antique period pieces for some of the rooms at Moross House ? | ||
Plymouthres Member Username: Plymouthres Post Number: 939 Registered: 02-2007 |
I am going to jump in here because I have been involved on the front lines in the Historic Fort Wayne Coalition's efforts to save the Fort for the past two years. I believe that, perhaps, I can provide some current information on the Fort which may be relative to this discussion. I have also been involved in some of the proposals that the DOT Gateway project has had for the Fort and it's surrounding neighborhood, in addition to have been recently elected as the Vice Chairman of the Coalition. I will agree with a majority of what Jacqueline has said, but there are some things that I have never heard before in regard to the chain of ownership and also in regard to the millage and it's dispersal to Fort Wayne. Jacqueline speaks as one who knows, and I am surprised that we have not met as I have spent a large part of the last two years of my life trying to help with the re-development plan for the Fort and it's environs, both at the Coalition level and at the City government level. From the way she explains things, it sounds as though she has been at the same meetings that I have as well. No matter what happens here, I can assure you all that the Fort itself is in no danger what so ever. To get to the point of the matter, I believe it is a bit unfair to label the Fort as a total "lost cause" or an impossible relic that is so far gone that it cannot be brought back. It is true that it will require quite a bit of money to restore(approx. $75 million), but that funding can be mitigated in a variety of ways which are currently being explored by historians and experienced historic preservationists alike. There currently are an entire group of folks preparing an update to the City of Detroit's Master Plan, which, since being generated in 2004, is by now long obsolete. The Fort and it's purpose in relation to the history of the City of Detroit is being re-defined, and when that has all been ironed-out, the Fort will be provided for in a way in which it previously was not. It is also important to give the City credit here, too. Although the Fort is managed by the Recreation Department, they have been extremely sensitive to the suggestions that the Coalition has made to them in regard to the Fort's preservation in the last two years that I have dealt with them. Our main point of contact in the Rec Department, Edie Worthy, has done an outstanding job of working in partnership with the Coalition in the maintainence, restoration and historical presentation of the Fort by allowing the Civil War re-enacting community to use the Fort for the purpose that it was designed and built for-that of a military induction and training center. Many other era-specific re-enacting groups are now joining in in the events we are hosting, as Subvet alluded to in regard to the Christmas at the Fort event we have planned for December 13th, where all eras that marshalled through the Fort will be represented. Last year, despite the condition of the budget of the City of Detroit, Recreation spent over $200,000 on maintaining the heat and lights at the Fort, and they were also responsible for approximately $42,000 in roofs for two of the structures that we recommended to them needed to be secured immediately, that being the 1848 Quarter Masters shop and the Tuskeegee Airmen's Museum building. The Coalition itself spent another approximately $20,000 of its own money there, so to say that there are no is nothing going into the place is a bit misleading. We are also proposing several revitalization plans to the City as we in the Coalition begin to gain more traction with both the City, State and Federal government agencies and ever growing preservation movement in the City. People in the City are sick and tired of watching their historic treasures deteriorate to the point of no return and are beginning to band together to combat the forces that would seek to allow this deterioration and apathy to continue. Although currently the situation does look bleak, I am convinced that if we can generate enough anger toward that apathy, our grass roots efforts will be successful. One of the ways you can help in the effort to preserve the Fort is to come to the events that the Coalition hosts. The monies that come in through the admission and parking fees is used to restore and maintain the Fort and it's grounds. Another way to help out is to donate financially to our organization. You may wish to designate money toward one of our many funding efforts, and we would be glad to provide you with a statement for you tax records as we are a 501c3 organization. Lastly, you can donate your time to help out in the restoration effort. The one thing that we never have enough of are people to help out on the workdays. The projects far outnumber the volunteers, and with more people more could be done. Please think about coming out and making a difference. We could use your help. | ||
Jacqueline Member Username: Jacqueline Post Number: 11 Registered: 08-2008 |
I appauld the Coalitions progress and wish you the best in the continuation of your work. The Fort is worth preserving. |
