  Raptor56 Member Username: Raptor56 Post Number: 630 Registered: 05-2007 |
Nathaniel Abraham this morning pleaded guilty to drug possession with intent to sell and will likely spend more than two years in prison. http://www.freep.com/article/2 0081117/NEWS03/81117027/?imw=Y | ||
Crumbled_pavement Member Username: Crumbled_pavement Post Number: 600 Registered: 08-2007 |
and so the cycle continues .... | ||
Tkshreve Member Username: Tkshreve Post Number: 673 Registered: 07-2006 |
Bring on the nature vs. nurture debate. Should he still be locked up today for his original crimes? Does the system really correct people, or make them worse? I am already blue in the face. | ||
Mschievous Member Username: Mschievous Post Number: 308 Registered: 04-2008 |
Well, TK, there's no rehabilitation in prison (and that assumes one was 'habilitated' in the first place). I'm afraid young Abraham was doomed the moment he was convicted of the first crime. Funny, I may have missed it but I don't recall seeing a lot of information on his early upbringing, his parents, siblings, etc. Maybe I missed it but it's almost like he's been on his own most of his life. I'm afraid this was a losing proposition from the start. This poor young man has known nothing but prison since he was what, 11-12 years old? What did we really expect? Break a window with a baseball when you're 12 and you get a week stuck in your room with no TV, kill a man when you're 12 and you get a lifetime with only TV in a 6 x 6 cell. I'm not excusing or condoning his actions, I'm just sayin'... I feel sorry for him but I think this is one battle we lost | ||
Gene Member Username: Gene Post Number: 123 Registered: 10-2006 |
I feel sorry for the person he killed. | ||
Chrissy_snow Member Username: Chrissy_snow Post Number: 359 Registered: 07-2008 |
It's very sad. I wonder if they actually rehabilitated him while inside, or just HELD him? When he came out, he wanted to be a rapper, obviously, he wanted THAT life. He didn't want to work and go to school and build a respectable life. He probably gorged himself on BET the entire time he was locked up then got out and became the victim of the guys at the studio who promised him he could make it. Probably the same guys who put him on the street to sell the pills. I still say they should investigate that connection further, the owner of the Cadillac was, I believe, the owner of the studio too. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a bunch of young men out there dealing for studio time. Anyway, its tough out here. He wasn't equipped to deal with life and while it wasn't his fault to begin with, he's an adult now and its totally his fault for making the wrong decisions. | ||
Tkshreve Member Username: Tkshreve Post Number: 674 Registered: 07-2006 |
If the jails are not going to rehabilitate people, then they might as well not let them out. It's silly to live in a society where crime and injustice is on the rise, but the government doesn't want to fix or dispose of the wrongdoers. They want to recycle them and pop them back into society. What are the chances there? So...... Is it that we are not mandating proper upbringings among households? Is it we are not holding criminals long enough and releasing them too early back into the world? Is it the correctional facilities are not correcting anything? Is it that society is becoming more and more violent and aggressive across the population? Should we build more jails, or increase capital punishment? Gene - I feel sorry for the victim as well. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 1525 Registered: 11-2005 |
Gee. Never saw that one coming. :P | ||
Turkeycall Member Username: Turkeycall Post Number: 75 Registered: 09-2008 |
Michigan Department of Correction? Michigan Department of Punishment? Michigan Department of Rehabilitation? Michigan Department of Criminal Storage? | ||
Softailrider Member Username: Softailrider Post Number: 228 Registered: 02-2007 |
I feel sorry for all the victims ,not just the one he shot and killed. How about the ones who had their houses and cars broken into and their identities stolen so pill heads can buy more drugs from guys like him. He picked a bad city to do business in. Oakland County never did like drug dealers. He would have had an easier time in Wayne County. | ||
Detroitjim Member Username: Detroitjim Post Number: 49 Registered: 02-2008 |
Ways Jeffy Fieger naah! | ||
Nanska Member Username: Nanska Post Number: 146 Registered: 08-2006 |
Not surprised that he is going back to prison. | ||
Bike4beer Member Username: Bike4beer Post Number: 45 Registered: 09-2008 |
http://www.stateline.org/live/ ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136 &languageId=1&contentId=14835 Seems like returning to prison is a common problem. | ||
Bigb23 Member Username: Bigb23 Post Number: 2852 Registered: 11-2007 |
He had plenty of opportunity in, and after, Juvenile Hall. Which by the way, is not a prison, but a dorm under lock down. I knew he was lost cause when he showed up for court a year or two ago in a pink pimp suit. | ||
Crumbled_pavement Member Username: Crumbled_pavement Post Number: 601 Registered: 08-2007 |
quote: I agree with this statement. It is probably the best argument I've heard for added focus on rehabilitation. If we can't fix the broken product, either because we didn't try or we are simply unable to, then why let the product back out on the streets? quote: Chances are very slim in that scenario for someone who is in the system to come out and be a productive citizen. quote: The government can't mandate this, but it is obvious that many parents don't take parenting seriously. And some communities, unfortunately, are enablers. quote: I don't think it's the quantity of time we hold offenders, but the quality of the time we hold offenders. In Abraham's case I will be honest, I always said he should do life in prison. Thing is, he'll end up doing life in prison anyway. It will just be in piece-meal, as he goes in and out of the system. It's not easy to rehabilitate murderers, rapists, and child molesters (if even possible). Nevertheless, it's not like we try to rehabilitate non-violent offenders either. I guess that's why we spend more money on the criminal justice system than we do on college education in this state. quote: The correctional facilities are nothing more than adult day care centers. Three hots and a cot, tv, work out and fitness programs, etc, etc, etc. Prison shouldn't be a vacation. quote: Yes. That and people are forgetting how to raise children. Respect for another person's rights, property, and life should be drilled into children. Let's not also forget a decent education system would go a long way in solving some of these problems as well. This is one case where politicians and other scum stepping out of the way would move us 50 steps closer to where we need to go. quote: NO TO MORE JAILS! We have enough damn jails and Michigan spends enough money imprisoning people. I do support capital punishment in the most extreme cases. Some people are just better off being put out of their misery than recycled through the system. quote: I do too. | ||
Ggores Member Username: Ggores Post Number: 482 Registered: 10-2007 |
Noticed how similar the expression on his face was to KKs. You know, that glum, kinda pouty, "got caught wit my hand in the cookie jar" kinda expression. | ||
Chrissy_snow Member Username: Chrissy_snow Post Number: 360 Registered: 07-2008 |
Remember that visual comparison someone did of Abraham and KK, over in the Mayor Scandal forum? It was so ironic, and sadly, funny. | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 517 Registered: 05-2006 |
You kind of knew Abraham would be going back into the system at some point. He would say things that people wanted to hear so that they would want to help them. However looking at his actions you knew the street hustle was still there. He is going to have to make a decision as to how he wants to live his life. As far as the job of our prisons are concerned. You can't make somebody re-habilitate themselves. All you can do is make the services available. We ask our institutions to do things they are really not equipt to do. Our department of corrections is designed to house prisoners and keep them from escaping, and I would guess they do a pretty good job at that. Anything above and beyond that starts to put our correctional system at the limit of their effectiveness. | ||
Bobl Member Username: Bobl Post Number: 210 Registered: 07-2008 |
Who gets the phat suit that he was given when he was released? Seriously, he did a stupid thing after numerous people went out of their way to help him. Stupid actions like these result in consequences. Let him pay the consequence, then watch him repeat next time. Some people are just plain stupid. | ||
Sean_of_detroit Member Username: Sean_of_detroit Post Number: 2234 Registered: 03-2008 |
The current prisoner storage system (as Turkeycall so eloquently named it) is not about rehabilitation, it's about perceived justice (someone has to pay). It's about revenge. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1811 Registered: 12-2003 |
When he expressed a desire to be a rapper, and then chose that suit to make his exit in, where were his "advisers," who should have said, "Nate, maybe not...you need to get a real job, and you're going to walk out here looking like a straight up citizen." They didn't do that, instead they enabled him in his fantasy of being a rapper and a player. | ||
Ashdetroit Member Username: Ashdetroit Post Number: 29 Registered: 08-2008 |
Abraham was mentored by the judge who sentenced him when he was 12. When he was released from prison, he was given aid to find a home, and I believe his tuition was paid for. Don't you remember everyone freaking out about that 2 years ago? I think he got a second chance, and he completely fucked it up. I mean, sad, the guy probably had a terrible life, but he killed a man, and society didn't lock him up forever. If you get a second chance, plus help from the government, screw you if you decide to deal X instead. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 1827 Registered: 12-2003 |
Those are the advisers I'm talking about, Judge Craig Strong, etc. They signed off on the suit, the "rapper" aspirations, etc. | ||
Docterry Member Username: Docterry Post Number: 140 Registered: 08-2008 |
It's not just a failure of the prisons to rehabilitate (although this is a big part). At exit from the system, it becomes more complicated and there is plenty of "blame" to go around if that's what we are after. This all coming more from personal and professional observation than anything else. When people get out, they have (especially if they are relatively young) already adopted a "thug" mentality and persona as a part of surviving prison. They've also often already bought into a mentality that says life is supposed to be relatively easy. They've seen it in the "thug" fantasy on tv, but they've also lived it, in that they have not had to work inside, and maybe not ever. Combine that with a community in which there are no jobs and you are bound to have high recidivism rates - given the choice, employers will choose someone with no record over someone with a felony record; the court/parole system demands that the person pay off fines, restitution, etc.; the person can't find - or at least, can't quickly find, a "real" job and gets pretty angry and resentful; person then reverts to underground economy and the process starts over. I've become convinced that any attempt at "fixing" this situation would demand that all pieces be addressed. And, again, in this economy, its pretty unlikely to happen. Nothing, in my mind, excuses the behaviors - they are choices and we are all responsible for our choices. Yet, there are often few "right" choices realistically available in short time frames. Perhaps better preparation and planning are the answer, but that's something we'd have to build into the system and pay for. Again, unlikely in the current climate. Sorry if this sounds overly-negative, but I've seen both sides of the negative outcomes of negative choices. | ||
Bobl Member Username: Bobl Post Number: 214 Registered: 07-2008 |
People who choose to live like a thug should be treated like a thug. He chose to be a thug. I feel no sympathy for him. Has the family of his victim been given their second chance? | ||
Illwill Member Username: Illwill Post Number: 125 Registered: 11-2003 |
Ashdetroit, I absolutely have to agree with you. This young man received a lot of support when he was released the first time. Especially after the crime that he committed. I think people felt bad and we wanted this young child to have a second chance at life. It would not have been right if we didn't give him a chance. However he screwed it up. unfortunately, boys will be boys and firstandten said it best..."He is going to have to make a decision as to how he wants to live his life." It's completely up to him. | ||
Ashdetroit Member Username: Ashdetroit Post Number: 34 Registered: 08-2008 |
Part of me does believe he didn't have a chance...how could you when you're killing that young, and then sent away for the rest of your childhood? How could that ever be corrected? But there are a lot of offenders coming from Michigan's prisons who need the kind of help Nathaniel received. Some would do better with it--he shouldn't be the only prisoner to have those opportunities. And since he was singled out, it's a shame he wasted the help he was granted. His sponsors, and critics of juvenile reform, will think twice before offering this kind of aid to other felons. |
