  Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5660 Registered: 06-2004 |
ya know, during the primaries I thought he might be the one with enough inside knowledge obviously not - he really was just playing on the homeboy connection what a stain on the Romney name http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11 /19/opinion/19romney.html | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 848 Registered: 07-2007 |
It's amazing to me that people nationally don't get how destructive a meltdown of the domestic auto industry would be to our state economy and the national economy. I don't expect them to care about our state or our residents but the impact will be felt far beyond Michigan. Did anyone hear that twit David Littman on the radio this morning? He seemed to think that not only would the failure of the Big 3 be no big deal, it would probably be a good thing. He has this fantasy world view that the people who would lose their jobs through an implosion of the domestic auto industry would just pick up work elsewhere with "other auto companies". Of course, this guy used to work for Comerica so I guess I shouldn't expect anything more. | ||
Cman710 Member Username: Cman710 Post Number: 547 Registered: 07-2006 |
Lilpup, while I am not sure that I fully agree with Romney's prescriptions, I do think that he presented a reasoned, intelligent alternative perspective. And I think that his view still holds Detroit near and dear to his heart, and I believe he thinks that allowing bankruptcy will ultimately be the best for the American auto industry. (He basically says this.) Just because someone does not support a bailout does not mean they do not support Detroit. | ||
Haikoont Member Username: Haikoont Post Number: 36 Registered: 09-2008 |
quote: Didn't Ford just do that? | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5661 Registered: 06-2004 |
Cman, anyone with a clue knows bankruptcy won't work. As far as picking up work with "other auto companies," their product s currently backing up in the Cali ports. (The one photo showing the notice to remove all outside protection by a certain date - does that mean the paint jobs are going to be screwed on these cars? That's my guess...) http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11 /19/business/economy/19ports.h tml?hp | ||
Bobl Member Username: Bobl Post Number: 208 Registered: 07-2008 |
Romney has made his fortune by picking businesses clean, shedding their employees, selling off what he can, then moving on. Detroit is not "near and dear to his heart". He left and never looked back. Nice hair and great clothes, though. Might qualify him for another run at the presidency. | ||
Mauser765 Member Username: Mauser765 Post Number: 3532 Registered: 01-2004 |
It is Bloomfield Hills that is "near and dear to his heart" | ||
Alan55 Member Username: Alan55 Post Number: 2407 Registered: 09-2005 |
Romney LEFT Michigan for Massachusetts and Utah. Why would anybody think Michigan and Michiganders are near and dear to his heart? And what makes you think he has a heart? He is as calculating as anyone gets. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 850 Registered: 07-2007 |
An even-handed take on the mess the Big 3 (and the US economy) is in: http://seekingalpha.com/articl e/106809-should-gm-be-saved | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 2013 Registered: 08-2006 |
While the title of his Op Ed is offensive, he makes several good recommendations. I do have to wonder what he means by "reducing the retiree burden" cyanide pills once you are no longer needed by your employer perhaps? | ||
Gazhekwe Member Username: Gazhekwe Post Number: 2722 Registered: 08-2007 |
That retiree thing bugs me, too. The people paid for their retirement in wage, benefit and retirement packages. Conceivably, the wages could have been higher if not for the retirement carrot. With that benefit, the companies bought loyalty and saved tons on recruitment and training over the life of the companies. The workers earned their benefits and have every right to enjoy them now. Notice that Chrysler is absolutely determined to pay their execs the huge bonuses that they earned solely by their loyalty over a brief period of time. For the retirees, we are talking about 30+ years of loyalty each, payment for which has been built into the company structure. This company structure has saved the US government tons in health care and senior support services. Those costs are born by the governments of other companies. Costs are less for foreign competitors because the companies lack the longevity of the Big 3. Once they have 60 years of retirees on their rolls, they will be suffering just as much. In their own countries, they don't have to worry about health care costs either, one of the main problems with the US employer backed system. (Message edited by gazhekwe on November 19, 2008) | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3628 Registered: 04-2006 |
I guess you can speak with a looser tongue when you aren't still trying to keep your presidential bid alive by selling nostalgia... | ||
Johnlodge Member Username: Johnlodge Post Number: 9174 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think he is off on the $2,000 difference per car on domestic vs. foreign. That WAS the case before the last labor agreement, it should have decreased afterwards. But he still raises a lot of good points. Not sure I agree with bankruptcy though. | ||
Daddeeo Member Username: Daddeeo Post Number: 306 Registered: 09-2008 |
His old man must be doing double back flips in his grave. Talk about stabbing the old home town folks in the back. I'm positive some people are sure glad they voted for him in the primary. | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 1639 Registered: 12-2007 |
well...he should have thought that this was going to bite him in the ass in 2012...the auto-companies aren't just Michigan...if any go bankrupt and 500k+ are unemployed...Don't expect much love from Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky, and Illinois...not to mention the residual losses in Pennsylvania due to lower steal production. Goodyear and Michelin as well as Firestone would see a huge drop in production... If the Auto Industry fails...then we will REALLY see trickle down economics... | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 2014 Registered: 08-2006 |
I know two people recently forced into retirement at GM, both in thier mid 50s. How can these companies go on crying they have too much retiree burden when they keep offering retirement packages en masse all while they are still actively recruiting new hires to fill On Star jobs? Talk about dumb management. | ||
Leannam1989 Member Username: Leannam1989 Post Number: 114 Registered: 06-2008 |
I think I kind of see Romney's point. Why throw money at a poorly run operation? I don't know that bankruptcy is the answer, though. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 2013 Registered: 04-2006 |
What Mitt is saying is not earth shattering stuff. There has been a lot done to address these issues. He seems to gloss over the VEBAs, the pay scale for new workers, and the massive cost of having to meet last year's energy bill ($100 Billion of which the govt loan would cover $25 billion of). The credit crunch, the forced energy standards are all an act of whom? The US Govt sticking its nose in and micromanaging the auto industry. All this crap about "Well you guys make Escalades and that is bad because you should be making cars like Toyota or Mercedes" Toyota Sequioa is not exactly the poster child for the kind of cars we should be making. Heck even Escalade comes in a Hybrid, does the Toyota Monster truck? How Mitt is saying it is surprising. Its almost as if he has no idea that anything has happened in Detroit since the 1950's. AMC is gone and the company that absorbed it is on its last legs. He displays his credentials as "my daddy...." Well my dad learned to use a slide rule back in the 50's, that don't make me an expert at using a slide rule. | ||
Cambrian Member Username: Cambrian Post Number: 2015 Registered: 08-2006 |
Yeah "the building too many escalades" remark burns my butt too. How many of these senators have owned or ridden in a Suburban for thier work details? They should be criticized for their actions 10 years ago for not leading by example and selecting practical four cylinder cars. If the big three did not fill the demand for trucks, who would have? The never do wrong foreign car companies, thats who. | ||
Atwater Member Username: Atwater Post Number: 323 Registered: 09-2007 |
It's amazing that some of you just read the headline and think he's suggesting the auto industry just die. Au contraire, quote Romney, "We won't let these companies go away. We won't have the industry disappear. We want to make sure to take advantage of the opportunity right now to get them restructured properly so they can be viable long term." He simply believes that bankruptcy is actually the best avenue toward that. This way, the auto makers can shed their current union obligations, which are a huge part of the problem. My source for the quote: http://politicalticker.blogs.c nn.com/2008/11/19/romney-let-d etroit-go-bankrupt/ | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 852 Registered: 07-2007 |
Are you going to buy a car from a bankrupt automaker? We might as well say the solution is to build flying cars if the solution isn't going to work. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 10523 Registered: 10-2003 |
One word describes Romney. Cunt. | ||
Swimmaven Member Username: Swimmaven Post Number: 26 Registered: 05-2007 |
I am amazed at the acrimony of opinions in the national sphere over this issue; especially the workers wages. Unions need to be revamped, but I wish there were more unions in places like retail and professional positions. Corporations have trampled employees civil rights and it is now out of control. When it is exclusively about the bottom line, then everything else suffers: Employees, customers, quality, warranties, etc. Why is it that top management, especially in the banking industry, can keep their bonus's, stock options and yachts, but everyone is screaming that auto workers are compensated too much? Auto workers have decent jobs. That is what any person with skills in the US should make. Not the $15 or $20 an hour like in the japanese plants. That is just a living wage. Unions take the fear away when working in a corporation, as well. That is big. Very, very big. | ||
D_mcc Member Username: D_mcc Post Number: 1640 Registered: 12-2007 |
we should boycott amway... I think someone's magic underwear is in a bunch | ||
Sknutson Member Username: Sknutson Post Number: 1208 Registered: 03-2004 |
quote: Not to mention those sexy magic underpants! George Romney built things and created jobs; Mittens shuffles paper and eliminates jobs. (Message edited by sknutson on November 19, 2008) | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1703 Registered: 12-2006 |
The fallacy of the "GM should solve its problems in bankruptcy" idea is that it assumes two things: 1. GM can obtain Debtor-In-Possession financing in order for it to go into chapter 11; 2. People will buy cars and trucks from an automaker which is in chapter 11. I don't know for sure that either or both of these is false, but if either is false, then GM cannot enter bankruptcy and successfully exit it. What bugs me is that I haven't heard anyone discuss these questions. Every commentator either assumes both assumptions are valid or assumes they aren't, without attempting to justify. These are, I think, very critical things to analyze. | ||
Smogboy Member Username: Smogboy Post Number: 9309 Registered: 11-2004 |
Not that I always like the guy by any stretch but nice to see L. Brooks Patterson telling him he's way off base. Not that LBP seems to have a much better solution detailed out just yet, but methinks Mitt is a bit off base on his commentary here. | ||
1kielsondrive Member Username: 1kielsondrive Post Number: 559 Registered: 08-2008 |
Rich, spoiled, right wing, nut case. 'I got mine, too bad for you!' | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3631 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: Honestly, I got about halfway through his op-ed before I got sick of hearing Mitt Romney's voice in my head. He did make some good points before I stopped reading. What I didn't see him say anything about was the possibility that if the automakers do go into bankruptcy, they might not be able to secure the credit in this environment to continue funding their business operations. That is the real threat, not that they will have to go into bankruptcy, but what type of bankruptcy they will have to go into. From the tone coming out of Detroit, it sounds like at least GM and Chrysler have each explored the prospect of a bankruptcy reorganization and come to the conclusion that they would not be able to secure the capital needed to continue operating. If this is the case then they would have to liquidate their assets and close the door if they do not receive the funds from the government. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3632 Registered: 04-2006 |
I guess me and the professor are sharing the same thoughts today... quote: |
