  Living_in_the_d Member Username: Living_in_the_d Post Number: 320 Registered: 01-2008 |
Yeah, It seems that Detroit will be going Green soon with the addition of Hybrid buses to the D.D.O.T. fleet, Any thoughts?, and or personal positive experiences? | ||
French777 Member Username: French777 Post Number: 617 Registered: 10-2006 |
Really? wow | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 2025 Registered: 04-2006 |
What is your source of this information? | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5721 Registered: 06-2004 |
Ann Arbor has some biodiesel hybrids - quiet, not stinky, nice. http://blog.mlive.com/annarbor news/2007/10/aata.html http://www.automobilemag.com/g reen/reviews/0808_aata_gillig_ hybrid_electric_bus/index.html | ||
Hybridy Member Username: Hybridy Post Number: 271 Registered: 08-2006 |
madison, wi has had them for awhile now http://www.autobloggreen.com/2 006/10/16/madison-wisconsin-ge tting-diesel-electric-hybrid-b uses/ | ||
Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 1396 Registered: 09-2004 |
About time. | ||
Peachlaser Member Username: Peachlaser Post Number: 260 Registered: 08-2006 |
Sounds like a great idea. Detroit's huge immediate opportunity is to become the showplace for new green technology in research, design, manufacturing and application. IMO If you want to repopulate, get the world's attention again (in a positive way), and get back on track, start using the new technologies in every way that you can. Be the proving ground for the future. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5722 Registered: 06-2004 |
won't mean a damned thing if the media doesn't cover the positives that happen here Did any major come out this week to look at the companies' new technology? Has any major profiled Ford's enviro program at the Rouge or GM's use of Michigan supplied solar panels in CA? Or reported on Ford's and GM's fuel cell fleets? Or any of the other positives here? | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 1050 Registered: 08-2005 |
quote: That's not going to happen. As others have already pointed out, plenty of other cities have already transitioned to hybrid biodiesel buses, Detroit isn't exactly leading the pack in this regard and hybrid buses certainly aren't going to make Detroit some kind of "green" Mecca when you have Ann Arbor 40 minutes away that's been doing this for quite some time. I see no inclination from either the CoD or the Big 3 to become the leaders of the "Green" movement when they have fought higher CAFE standards every step of the way. Sorry, you can't be a "proving ground" if you do stuff only after a whole bunch of other people have done it first. Detroit will continue to be a dinosaur in this regard, dragged kicking and screaming against their will into the 21st century. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5723 Registered: 06-2004 |
CAFE standards are stupid and useless. They are touted only by those incapable of thinking beyond petroleum products for transportation fuel. | ||
Izzyindetroit Member Username: Izzyindetroit Post Number: 132 Registered: 07-2008 |
Still no sources eh?? | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 1051 Registered: 08-2005 |
quote: Whatever. Continue to delude yourself into thinking that the Big 3 care about the environment. The Vice-Chairman of GM went on the Colbert Report and said that he didn't believe that Global Warming was real. The same people who took private jets to Washington to beg for money really care about "going green." Congress wanted to add new fuel efficiency standards as a requirement to receive bailout money and the Big 3 vocally opposed it. These are the same people BEGGING for money, and they STILL refuse to go green. Like I said, they'll be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century. There's a reason why the Big 3 are all near collapse, because they have consistently refused to look to the future and get with the times. They're dinosaurs, and just like the dinosaurs they will eventually go extinct because they simply cannot adapt. Detroit will not be the center of green innovation for the automobile industry. That may have been an opportunity...five or ten years ago. The Big 3 took a pass on it, now Detroit will be perennially behind the curve on innovation. You know what the Big 3 considers to be "innovative?" Resurrecting dead muscle cars. Detroit looks to the past while the rest of the world looks to the future and that's why the Big 3 are in this situation. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5724 Registered: 06-2004 |
There's nothing green about constantly upping CAFE standards, which merely perpetuate the use of petroleum. No automakers have more vehicles on the road that reduce oil consumption than the US automakers. You think it's a joke, but it's not. Not only do they have more models at 30+ mpg, they have put out millions of E85 capable vehicles. They have more hybrids. They have more hydrogen fuel cells, even if those are in test fleets. Soon they will have more electrics. There is no lack of innovation. There is lack of decent PR and marketing. | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 532 Registered: 04-2008 |
How does increasing CAFE standards perpetuate the use of petroleum? If Fuel Economy increases, wouldn't fuel consumption decrease? I'm not disagreeing. I just don't understand. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 3895 Registered: 01-2005 |
Hybridy, are you from Madison??? | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5730 Registered: 06-2004 |
"How does increasing CAFE standards perpetuate the use of petroleum?" It impedes the change to non-petroleum alternatives and it doesn't reduce fuel usage because Americans change their auto use habits and burn up the fuel gained by the increased efficiency. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 871 Registered: 07-2007 |
The last 6 months have shown the two things that will reduce fuel consumption: 1) High gas prices 2) A crappy economy Otherwise, as Lilpup said, CAFE has mainly served to encourage Americans to drive more and drive greater distances. It's done nothing to reduce fuel usage. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5731 Registered: 06-2004 |
If you want to take it even a little further - in the ideal case where drivers didn't change their usage habits - CAFE is a govt imposed penalty on the automakers to the benefit of the oil companies. The forced higher efficiencies are a lowering of fuel costs to the consumer but also allow the oil companies to gradually raise their per gallon prices (back up to a fuel cost customers will tolerate) when expected market reaction would be for fuel prices to fall due to decreased demand. (Message edited by lilpup on November 22, 2008) | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 2026 Registered: 04-2006 |
Increasing CAFE standards assist with sprawl. If you get higher milage the farther away you can live from work. Again, does anyone have a source for DDOT's purchase? One bad thing about bio-diesel hybrids is that I don't think that Detroit Diesel builds them. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5732 Registered: 06-2004 |
The ones in Ann Arbor have a GM hybrid powertrain. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6445 Registered: 10-2003 |
Here in Lansing we added a few back in 2006, and have added more since including the "accordian" (articulated) bus hybrids. Apparently, CATA was the first system in Michigan to include hybrids. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6446 Registered: 10-2003 |
BTW, Living in the D, I'd also like to know where you got this information from. I've been looking all around, but can find nothing to say that DDOT has proposed purchased any hybrid buses. | ||
Peachlaser Member Username: Peachlaser Post Number: 261 Registered: 08-2006 |
Peachlaser said: quote: Warriorfan said: quote: You don't understand. It must happen. The choice is to either become a leader in the world in advanced efficient technology or become a dinosaur museum. | ||
Peachlaser Member Username: Peachlaser Post Number: 262 Registered: 08-2006 |
Lilpup said: quote:I agree. Detroit has some very talented marketing talent. In the past, they have all probably tried to outdo each other and sell their own Big 3 products. I think the challenge has changed. They need to unite forces and start presenting Detroit's accomplishments. It's a tough audience out there and Detroit has a lot to prove. I don't want these marketing gurus to try to sell the American public a bill of goods, but rather present the challenges, the accomplishments and a pathway to the future. Many people think that by concentrating on trucks and SUVs, that Detroit is clueless about the future. That is essentially the challenge that Detroit faces...proving that Detroit has a plan for the future and can design and build products that meet these new demands and requirements. | ||
Bc_n_dtown Member Username: Bc_n_dtown Post Number: 91 Registered: 09-2006 |
quote: I can't tell you where Living_in_the_d got his info from, but he is on the right track. The DDOT General Manager of Vehicle Maintenance has already stated that DDOT plans to purchase an alternative fuel type hybrid coach sometime in 2009, in addition to Mayor Cockrel stating that he wants the city to focus on going green with future city purchases. Lansing and Ann Arbor already has them, and Windsor, Canada already has them on order. There are fifty new coaches due sometime in the spring and are already in the city's FY2008-09 budget. Although I can't tell you for sure, I don't think these will be diesel-electric hybrids. But they are coming! An Orion (DiamlerChrysler) hybrid-electric demonstrator coach just visited the DDOT properties this past week, and I've been told one from NewFlyer is due here in the next month. With over 150 coaches eligible for retirement in 2009, DDOT is definitely in the market for new buses. The bus manufacturers know this and are coming to town pitching their goods. For more on that demo bus visit from this past week see: http://finance.groups.yahoo.co m/group/DSR-2-DOT/message/2637 | ||
Living_in_the_d Member Username: Living_in_the_d Post Number: 321 Registered: 01-2008 |
Mr. dtown, You have a way of putting things both factually and eloquently, Even I learned something from Your well put together post, Kudos! And to all others who have added interesting and well thought out info and links, Kudos also! | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6448 Registered: 10-2003 |
Thanks, Bc n dtown! That was very informative. But, if they won't be diesel-electric, what will they be? | ||
Living_in_the_d Member Username: Living_in_the_d Post Number: 323 Registered: 01-2008 |
Yeah, Diesel Electric does seem to be the order of the day. |
