  Cub Member Username: Cub Post Number: 996 Registered: 02-2007 |
What are the Pros and Cons of a State takeover? | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6479 Registered: 10-2003 |
Just think back to when this happened not all that long ago. That should be a helpful case study. | ||
Crumbled_pavement Member Username: Crumbled_pavement Post Number: 614 Registered: 08-2007 |
Pros: out of the hands of incompetent Detroit Board of Education Con: Into the hands of an incompetent Michigan Board of Education | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 889 Registered: 07-2007 |
Isn't this state takeover focused on finances? The previous takeover actually involved removing the Board and appointing a board with members selected by John Engler. | ||
Gnome Member Username: Gnome Post Number: 2182 Registered: 08-2007 |
On another thread I learned that all DPS administration is housed in the Fisher or the Albert Kahn Buildings. The are paying some of the highest rents in the city, meanwhile DPS is sitting on acres of abandoned buildings. A Financial Manager would change that right away. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6481 Registered: 10-2003 |
Isn't their space in the Fisher due to a decision made by the previous "takeover" board, and didn't the previous takeover also involve state government involvement continually looking into the district's finances? | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1408 Registered: 06-2006 |
Lmich: The current board made the decision to move into the Kahn and Fischer bldgs. I'd like to see the state tell them to get out of those expensive leases and take residence in one or two of the closed schools. That would save a bundle each year. If the schools are good enough for the kids then they should be good enough for the admin. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6482 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'm pretty sure DPS announced and began the move to New Center back in 2002. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 3661 Registered: 04-2006 |
quote: And wasn't that done to get rid of the cost of maintaining the DPS HQ building? (Also, in their defense, there weren't nearly as many empty schools in 2002 as there are now.) | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 3236 Registered: 08-2004 |
DPS headquarters moved to the New Center Area during the Burnley administration. They are paying RENT to stay there. They should have never moved since they actually owned the building of their previous location on Woodward Ave (they sold it to Wayne State). | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 890 Registered: 07-2007 |
"I'd like to see the state tell them to get out of those expensive leases and take residence in one or two of the closed schools. That would save a bundle each year." How do you figure? It's going to cost money to rehab the school for administrative purposes. I seriously doubt old classrooms were designed to be offices. Then you have the ongoing costs of maintaining the school. It's not closed because it was cost-efficient to keep it open. These kinds of suggestions have a nice populist ring to them but they likely don't make sense from a dollars and cents perspective. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 2316 Registered: 11-2003 |
Sometimes, when I go into the former DPS HQ, I think about DPS kids without textbooks as I look at all the marble, woodwork, brasswork and ceiling paintings. I also think about the rats and cockroaches and the water you werent allowed to drink in the former WSU Psych Building on Warren. | ||
Daddeeo Member Username: Daddeeo Post Number: 323 Registered: 09-2008 |
They're getting an education all right. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 7992 Registered: 02-2004 |
OOOHH! I can't wait to see how the rest of the black folks who are the majority of teachers and administrators in the DPS are going to fail in public school businesses. Receivership, here we come. Fight DPS fight! And don't quit. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 1719 Registered: 12-2006 |
Every DPS board, in the 30 years I've been around here, has been focused completely on money, power and perquisites, and not at all on educating children. The administration works in plush, well-appointed offices while the children languish in rat-infested hell holes. The previous state receiver did pretty damn near to nothing. It'll be interesting to see if the next one does more (and trust me, there'll be a next one). Note the state's rather tepid acceptance of the plan, and the real question is will this board actually follow through with the items in the plan. (Recent history says "no".) | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1409 Registered: 06-2006 |
Quite a few of the closed schools have Wi-Fi access. They still pay to keep the heat/electric on and an engineer in the bldg. I don't see it costing nearly as much as the rent they are paying now. Why aren't the closed schools good enough for admin if they are good enough for kids? They may not be as lavish as what admin is used to, but lavish isn't what we need right now. It sure would save some cash, in the long run. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 892 Registered: 07-2007 |
"It sure would save some cash, in the long run." So you claim. I doubt a realistic analysis of the alternatives would support that claim. | ||
Alexei289 Member Username: Alexei289 Post Number: 1328 Registered: 11-2004 |
If you sacrificed AIG and put it into schools, how many DPS school systems could you save? 50? 100? you have 134billion $$ to play with | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6486 Registered: 10-2003 |
In thew news: quote: | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1410 Registered: 06-2006 |
Novine: What I am trying to say is that admin needs to cut its lavish spending on office suites at tens of thousands of dollars PER MONTH. They need a spot to park their files and desks. They do not need marble, expensive office furniture (that is rented), new carpet every two years (yep, they do that, too), and all the other perks that come with having offices in the Ivory Towers (as the staff call the admin offices). When you can't afford to live in a multi million dollar home anymore, you move to a home you can afford. THAT is my point. Everyone is making sacrifices. Admin just sent word to schools that we are no longer allowed to order supplies (paper, ink for printers, etc). That doesn't hurt me since I haven't seen any supplies in the classroom that were provided by anyone other than me in the last 10 years. It does hurt the office staff who must print schedules, special education paperwork, and all that wonderful stuff. I am trying to say that admin needs to cut back because they are living high on the hog while the kids get nothing (49-60 kids in a room with 34 desks and not enough books). Oh shit, just let them eat cake.... | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 894 Registered: 07-2007 |
So say that. I'm not defending their behavior. But your case is a lot more compelling by focusing on the specifics of the excess and where students are being screwed than talking about moving them into an old school as if it was a brilliant financial idea. | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1412 Registered: 06-2006 |
Some of the old schools were renovated just prior to their closing. It would NOT take much to turn an old school into offices. MANY companies that have purchased vacant schools have done just that. If you've been to the admin offices recently, you'll see that they are just desks and file cabinets (rarely any people are present). Why CAN'T the admin be moved into a vacant school? Not all of the vacant schools are falling apart and not fit for rehab into offices. For the amount of money they are spending in 5 years for rent in the Ivory Towers, they could rehab a vacant school, which they already own. How am I not making financial sense? Check out the rent that DPS is paying for their admin offices per month (I don't have a current figure but last I heard it was $10,000.00 per floor per month and DPS has multiple floors in multiple buildings). Add that up, then figure the cost of a minor rehab to switch a vacant school to offices. Since they still must keep the schools operational (heat/water) while they are closed I don't see a huge difference in someone occupying them. They can hire a local lawn service to come and cut the grass/snow removal (open schools don't even get THAT). Occupying vacant schools would also lift an eyesore and blight problem from the community. Young girls would not get hauled into vacant schools and raped (as is happening now), arson would not occupy the fire dept's time and lives, etc. It would show a good faith effort to the community, parents, students, and staff if admin would move out of the pricey suites and move into a building they own. Compare it to the CEOs of the car companies taking private jets to DC to beg for money. That didn't look too hot in the public eye and neither does admin sitting in its lavish suites. | ||
Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 895 Registered: 07-2007 |
No offense "Detroitteacher" - I'll be the first to say that you couldn't pay me enough to do what you do every day - but you're talking about shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic. While administrators and teachers attack each other for the real and perceived sins and excesses, the SS Detroit Public Schools is sinking fast. I don't know what the answers are to Detroit's completely dysfunctional public school system but I have a hard time seeing how the people in charge on either side are going to come up with the answers to fix it. Neither the board nor the administration nor the teachers union seem to have any ability to work together or competently to make things work. That's harsh but from the outside world, that's how it looks. | ||
Ocean2026 Member Username: Ocean2026 Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-2008 |
There's a thread on here about the DPS selling vacant public school buildings but the price is many times what the schools are worth. There may not be any sales at all. I wonder how this happened? | ||
Detroitteacher Member Username: Detroitteacher Post Number: 1413 Registered: 06-2006 |
Novine: I am the FIRST person to admit that things within DPS are "effed" up. I see, firsthand, what many people are seeing from the outside. Believe me when I tell you that the outside view is MUCH nicer than the inside view. If the Board wants to make nice with the people of Detroit, they need to cut back (way back). This doesn't mean getting rid of folks who work directly with the kids. It means getting rid of excess at the top. There is talk of staff not getting paid this month. I can bet that Calloway and the admin at the top will get paid (as well as the rent for the Ivory Towers, security detail for Calloway). My suggestion is just one way to cut from the top. It IS feasible to do what I suggest and would provide the folks at the bottom (staff, teachers, kids, parents, community) a sense that DPS is doing everything it can to cut things that don't hurt the kids. I still believe that the kids come first and educating those kids is supposed to be a top priority. When you are broke, you work with what you have and don't live above your means (if you want to survive). Parents put their kids first (or are supposed to) and DPS should look at it as parents would look at their own children. Kids first, multi-million dollar offices should be at the bottom of the list of must haves. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 7994 Registered: 02-2004 |
Some folks and politicians in Michigan want DPS to fail so that they could re-organize ans re-structure ans eliminate lame duck and lazy people and hire REAL skillful staff. It's going to happen. | ||
Ashdetroit Member Username: Ashdetroit Post Number: 44 Registered: 08-2008 |
I'm sorry, I have to agree with Novine. Finances are so dire that saving an extra $100,000 a year or whatever by moving into a school wouldn't be worth the trouble. Danny, I'm sorry, but there are a lot of us who--maybe not want DPS to fail--but see it as the only way to completely restructure the organization. Let's not forget that we're talking about one of the worst, if not the worst, school districts in America. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 7997 Registered: 02-2004 |
Those EVIL Charter schools and the Michigan legislature signing of the Charter School Bill cause DPS and other public schools to lose students and FAIL. Our "free public education" is now becoming a competative market. Get the students, pass the whatever the basic skilled culturally biased standarized texts and make a profit. | ||
Crumbled_pavement Member Username: Crumbled_pavement Post Number: 617 Registered: 08-2007 |
quote: I partially agree with Detroitteacher. Some serious sacrifices need to be made in the DPS system by everyone from the top all the way down to the janitors. However, the tone must be set from the top, not the bottom. The time is now (actually it has been the time) for the Admin to make tough sacrifices and set the tone to do what is needed to bring DPS back. Although personally, I don't think DPS can come back until it is completely destroyed and then recreated - like what Ashdetroit posted. Sad but true. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 6489 Registered: 10-2003 |
Re-created as what? School boards are elected bodies, that is, they are directly connected to their community. DPS has now been overseen both by the state and by its own. The board has hired superintendent after superintendent, the most recent one totally unconnected to the area. It didn't matter. Seriously, what would destroying DPS do that hasn't already been done? More to the point, is the root of the problem really with DPS or something else...? | ||
Ashdetroit Member Username: Ashdetroit Post Number: 46 Registered: 08-2008 |
What would something else be? It's true that you can throw money at a problem, or hire new superintendents to solve a problem, but if they don't radically change the system, how will a problem get solved? I'm young, so feel free to correct me if my history is wrong, but I haven't seen many "radical" changes in DPS--and closing a school has nothing to do with changing the way schools are operated. I do know this--one semester at Wayne, my urban studies professor took a survey of students in our class who had attended Detroit schools. Out of the 30 student, over 20 had graduated from charters. Just sayin'. | ||
Firstandten Member Username: Firstandten Post Number: 534 Registered: 05-2006 |
One of the reasons that radical change is difficult for DPS is because as an institution it is tied to the hip to the economic and political fabric of the city. DPS is one of the largest employers of Detroit residents. DPS provides millions of dollars in contracts to Detroit based businesses. DPS is a known springboard for up and coming politicians. Given these realities radical change doesn't work well for people because there is too much on the line and people have too much too lose. It is easier (not rational however) to throw money at the problem in hopes of solving it. DPS either needs to be broken up into smaller independent school districts or if it stays a large district the mayor needs to make it another city department dismiss the board, appoint a director/chancellor/superinten dent to run it and have the mayor be accountable to the voters for its degree of success. Other big cities are starting to do this. |
