  Novine Member Username: Novine Post Number: 897 Registered: 07-2007 |
Word out of DC is that Senator Reid says there's still not enough votes to approve the bridge loans for the auto companies. I have to admit that I've been wondering about the potential for all of this effort going for naught. Let's not forget that this Congress first turned down the $700 billion bailout for the financial companies before it was finally approved, that it has more Republican members than the incoming Congress and a number of members are lame ducks. While we may see some crossover votes from Republicans in auto states like Indiana, what's to stop someone like Shelby from Alabama from filibustering this to death? All of this assumes that GWB would actually sign such legislation if it came forward. If the bridge loans are shot down, which companies won't make it to the Obama administration? What's the Plan B? Ford seems like they can make it until January. But what about Chrysler and GM? How many suppliers will go down if one or more of the Big 3 have to file for bankruptcy? | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 10571 Registered: 10-2003 |
Get ready for a very different staddard of living and lifestyle changes for every single person living in Canada and the USA. | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 1323 Registered: 11-2003 |
The most important numbers come from the poll of Americans that came out today which stated that 36% favor the bailout. 61% oppose it. 67% in the western states oppose it. Not Good. | ||
Detroitrise Member Username: Detroitrise Post Number: 3978 Registered: 09-2007 |
And Americans wonder why the world label them as idiots... | ||
Huggybear Member Username: Huggybear Post Number: 347 Registered: 08-2005 |
Guess everyone who lives in Michigan should flood into the western states and overwhelm their welfare systems? (Message edited by Huggybear on December 03, 2008) | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5773 Registered: 06-2004 |
Bush has the authority to grant funds from the bank bailout money. It's interesting that Reid is saying votes aren't there when just yesterday Pelosi practically guaranteed the money. California is running out of money as fast as GM is - no welfare there. (Message edited by lilpup on December 03, 2008) | ||
Cinderpath Member Username: Cinderpath Post Number: 932 Registered: 05-2006 |
-If it does not happen now, it will happen when Obama comes. He's smart enough to know what 3.5 million unemployed people will bring. | ||
401don Member Username: 401don Post Number: 886 Registered: 11-2007 |
Heck, Canada should just hand over $50 billion in exchange for moving all 3 HQ to Windsor. What a great investment. No use both sides of the border being in the toilet. Test drive a Ford or Chevy and get free beer and a toque eh. | ||
Angry_dad Member Username: Angry_dad Post Number: 279 Registered: 02-2006 |
Why would congress do what the people want? Why do people listen to the idiots at CBS, NBC, ABC and the rest? Those talking heads don't know squat abut the subject they talk about, just how to look good talking. Why are we so stupid to listen or let them think for us? | ||
Retroit Member Username: Retroit Post Number: 558 Registered: 04-2008 |
Plan B? Pack your bags. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5774 Registered: 06-2004 |
and/or your guns - it'll be ugly You know what's surprising? According to the Freep's little map this morning California has the second most auto industry jobs in the country, due to their number of dealerships. You'd think the dumbf*cks would have a clue. | ||
Ggores Member Username: Ggores Post Number: 495 Registered: 10-2007 |
Well, it would mean/be change. | ||
Otter Member Username: Otter Post Number: 435 Registered: 12-2007 |
My sister, in the mountains of CO, is one of those people in the west. The bailout ("bridge loan" is weasel-speak by the Big 3) is one of the very few things that she felt strongly enough about to write her senator and representative to oppose it. I oppose it in principle but I think I support it in practice, if done right (whatever 'right' is) If not done carefully enough, I think at least one of the Big 3 will collapse anyway, but later. or that might happen anyway. Nationwide fallout among businesses like dealers is, I think, inevitable - the Big 3 have far, far too many dealers. | ||
East_detroit Member Username: East_detroit Post Number: 2319 Registered: 11-2003 |
Bailout is what Wall Street, Banks and Insurance Companies are getting to the tune of 700 billion dollars. Loan is what GM, Ford and Chrysler want. They don't want a bailout. Polls asking if they should get a "bailout" are misleading, perhaps on purpose. Loans get paid back with interest. Bailouts get used to go on vacations to the Caribbean. "Bridge loan" is hardly "weasel speak." There is a HUGE difference between a bailout and a loan. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 2973 Registered: 02-2007 |
It's a non-negotiable. Parsing Big 3 existence is moot. If they fail, The entire North American economy will collapse. USSteel is shutting down many of their plants and suspending 3600 jobs as a result, and the Big 3 are still in business. What about all the tooling companies, the plastics companies? Man, the list goes on and on. They are talking a few million jobs, I think it's more than that. And definitely the remaining jobs will be effected by it as well. | ||
Cjd Member Username: Cjd Post Number: 10 Registered: 12-2006 |
Although not the best dictionary, for the purposes of this thread, I think Webster's sufficiently clarifies whether this is properly termed a "bailout": bail-out; [beyl-out] –noun 1. the act of parachuting from an aircraft, esp. to escape a crash, fire, etc. 2. an instance of coming to the rescue, esp. financially: a government bailout of a large company. 3. an alternative, additional choice, or the like: If the highway is jammed, you have two side roads as bailouts. –adjective 4. of, pertaining to, or consisting of means for relieving an emergency situation: bailout measures for hard-pressed small businesses. Whatever else you want to call it, there can be little doubt that the Big 3 are asking for a "bailout" under definition numbers 2 & 4. | ||
Sstashmoo Member Username: Sstashmoo Post Number: 2974 Registered: 02-2007 |
So what the banks got was really termed incorrectly. From we taxpayers it was a "gift". | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5775 Registered: 06-2004 |
"in the mountains of CO" how ironic, considering Colorado has the highest number of SUV registrations per capita | ||
Ggores Member Username: Ggores Post Number: 496 Registered: 10-2007 |
As a Detroiter, I do not want, nor wish, anyone to lose they job, and also do not want to see any of the Big 3 go down. By the way, just the other day, I saw a Ford Blackwood on the road. Eh boy, does anyone remember what a nightmare debacle THAT program was? By July of 2008, there was no longer a "Big 3", correct? Ok. The first time they went to Congress, the only reference that I can remember hearing about was to the "Detroit 3"? Eh? Ok. Now, we're back to the Big Three. Notable that Gettlefinger is absotutely not present at these upcoming Congressional hearings. Or is he? Hm. I don't think so. What the hell would he drive to D.C.? I imagine he'd best be on a railroad service cart, you know, the kind with the pump-action lever? Is there a shortage of automobiles in this world? Is there a shortage of housing... oops... I mean homes. Homes you can buy is what I mean. Homes that run about 220K? Eh. Is there a shortage of credit? BINGO! Yes, I think there is! Ah, them WallStreeters, call 'em what ya want, but they are slick as VO5. My point is that it is unrealistic to think that three automotive behemoths can exist, side-by-side, in a closed environment - too big a fish, and too small a fishbowl. Someone gotta go. However, in the abstract world of global finance, banking, futures, commodities, loans, lenders and borrowers... a world which really produces nothing, creates nothing, and has no incentive to create anything (much like the Government), it's not too hard to figure out that Detroit (and regional area) is about to be coco-butted, head first, into a mighty brick wall. Let's step back a minute - McDonnel Douglas, Boeing, Lockheed (west coast, early 90's)... Bethlehem Steel, U.S. Steel, Great Lakes Steel (Ohio valley states, early 80's). And now, Ford, General Motors, and... what're they called again? Cerberus Chrysler Holding Company? So much irony... and so much pragmatism on Capitol Hill. Interesting stuff. "Somebody gimme a CHEESEBURGER!" | ||
Warrenite84 Member Username: Warrenite84 Post Number: 445 Registered: 01-2007 |
When the wave of job losses reach the naysayer's own neighborhoods, I don't want to even hear a whimper. WE have been in a recession since 2001. (the big 3 kept the economy from tanking on them too), so they have been fine 6+ years. No thanks from them for that either. Now they want us,(Mid west), to roll over and die so their "right to work states" can pick the bones of OUR AUTO INDUSTRY. I would have never dreamed the wholesale callousness America has had toward us. To those naysayers',"You will reap what you sow". (Message edited by warrenite84 on December 03, 2008) | ||
Douglasm Member Username: Douglasm Post Number: 1188 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'm not sure how our two (WA) Democratic Senators feel on the bridge loans, but I'm going to drop them a line tomorrow asking them how they would feel if it was Boeing going down...... | ||
Mashugruskie Member Username: Mashugruskie Post Number: 299 Registered: 09-2006 |
I think I'm going to be sick. | ||
Mopardan Member Username: Mopardan Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2008 |
I live in Texas & emailed our senators, Cornyn & Hutchison, who are both Republicans. In it, I wrote that I support some form of government loan provided there is oversight & that the auto industry is held accountable; I also felt that the UAW should make concessions as well too. I alluded to the fact that many southern politicians are using this as an opportunity to break the UAW. Included in my email were recommendations that we implement serious "Fair Trade" practices so that countries like China cannot dump their cheap products here because of government subsidization. I received a response from Hutchison. For what it's worth, here it is: Dear Mr. XXXXXXX: Thank you for contacting me regarding the financial state of the U.S. automobile industry. I welcome your thoughts and comments on this issue. Our economy is facing dramatic challenges. Financial conditions are rapidly deteriorating, creating volatility and uncertainty for businesses, small and large, across the country. As Texans, we have learned to take responsibility for our actions and being asked to pay for the mistakes of others is something many, including myself, find deeply troubling. While I am a firm believer of free market principles, I also believe that our economy is facing new challenges that if unaddressed, may produce serious unwarranted costs. On September 30, 2008, the President signed into law H.R. 2638, the Consolidated Security, Disaster Assistance, and Continuing Appropriations Act of 2009. This legislation included, among many items, funding to support a $25 billion loan program for U.S. automakers. The loans, which will be repaid with interest, are intended for long-term business restructuring to promote innovative technologies and new fuel efficient products. The Department of Energy, which is administering the loan program, has indicated that the loans are scheduled to be released in 12 to 18 months. Several weeks after H.R. 2638 was signed into law, executives of the three major U.S. automakers requested Congress provide an additional $25 billion to $50 billion from the Treasury’s Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) to support their short-term funding needs. The CEOs of the largest U.S. automakers testified before Congress that their companies are facing a liquidity crisis, and without an immediate injection of capital, their businesses may fail, creating massive job losses across the country. The domestic auto industry has failed to meet foreign competition, and I do not think taxpayers should have to provide additional money from the TARP to the auto industry. Instead, I have proposed restructuring and expediting the $25 billion Department of Energy loan program to help the American auto industry weather the financial storm and retain their employees across the country. Requiring these prior funds, which are required to be paid back with interest, to be used on long-term expenditures is not the best use of federal resources when these companies are struggling to stay operational. Rather, these funds should be utilized for short-term needs first. I also believe that any government plan to aid the auto industry must include significant taxpayer protections, including restrictions on executive compensation, concessions from the unions, and assurances that each recipient of federal loans is financially viable. As Congress returns to debate this issue, you may be certain I will keep your views in mind. I appreciate hearing from you. I hope you will not hesitate to contact me on any issue of concern to you. Sincerely, Kay Bailey Hutchison United States Senator 284 Russell Senate Office Building Washington, DC 20510 202-224-5922 (tel) 202-224-0776 (fax) | ||
Mashugruskie Member Username: Mashugruskie Post Number: 300 Registered: 09-2006 |
Yep, I'm going to be sick. | ||
Townonenorth Member Username: Townonenorth Post Number: 435 Registered: 10-2007 |
One day they will rue the day that they are doing this. God help them if at any time in the future a disaster should happen to them, because we will not be there to bail their asses out. California? Burn. Coasts, Flood away. Yellowstone volcano lets loose? Tough. Shovel away the ash, bitches. TexASS gets hit by another couple of hurricanes? HAH. That will be the day. And for sure, not another drop of water from our lakes. But then again, they'll probably vote to bail their own little asses out anyway, so they can still screw our state over. No, I'm not bitter, am I? Nah. (Message edited by townonenorth on December 03, 2008) | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5776 Registered: 06-2004 |
So, if this doesn't go I'm guessing GM will try to stretch until Obama gets in, if remotely possible. Who gets cut back first? Dealers? Suppliers? Line workers? Any idea of how many days' sales are in current inventory now? Enough to shut down everything for a month or so (aside from the holidays) and let dealers sell down? | ||
Mopardan Member Username: Mopardan Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2008 |
From what I understand, Bush has the power to divert some of that $700bil to them. But he isn't going to do it. I'm optimistic that Obama would were he already in office. But if the Auto Industry can't wait, then money from the $25Bil DOE loan will be probably be used. As an FYI, not everyone down here is against the industry per se'; but unions are held in high contempt throughout the south, so people like Shelby from Alabama see this as a chance to break the UAW. I'm fortunate to live in an area where that isn't necessarily the prevailing view. Town, as a favor to me, don't wish any serious hurricanes on us until after my enlistment is up(Dec '09). Thanks! | ||
Mashugruskie Member Username: Mashugruskie Post Number: 302 Registered: 09-2006 |
Has anyone read any postings out there from the other states against the bridge loan? I have. They want us dead and they're laughing. So can we, with a clear conscience, knowing the trickled-down effect, turn around and laugh when it hits them? My dentist told me today that he gave a speech in San Francisco two weeks ago. He asked the audience how many supported the bridge loan and only two people raised their hand. He asked a few there what their business was and one responded that he was safe because he was in the computer field. When my dentist asked what he designed, the man said "programs for re-tooling machinery". I have never seen this country so split and unsupportive of its own people. This is horrible. | ||
Townonenorth Member Username: Townonenorth Post Number: 436 Registered: 10-2007 |
Ok, promise no hurricanes till then.  But all kidding aside, think of what we have given for all the aid to states hit hard by natural disasters in the past. I just feel that it's unfair to the region. Maybe Canada wants us? Seems as if the rest of the country can give two shits one way or the other. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 5777 Registered: 06-2004 |
It would be interesting to hear what the hedge funders and honchos at Cerberus are saying amongst themselves right about now. |
